I am renovating a kitchen in a 1928 Bungalow, and have a dilemma. Let me explain the current set-up and what I would like to do.
The current floor cross-section is as follows:
It starts with a 1 X subfloor, on top of that are approx. 3/16″ furring strips (not sure how far they are spaced apart) followed by a 3/4″ maple hardwood floor. On top of that is a 1/4″ underlayment with a layer of linoleum and at least one layer of peel and stick vinyl tile on top of that. There have been a couple of 4 in diameter holes cut in the floor previously, and this is how I was able to see the cross section.
The plans call for installing 12 x 12 ceramic tile over the maple floor after removing the vinyl, linoleum, and 1/4 underlayment. The reason for this plan is because the underlayment fasteners have presumably ruined the original maple floor.
First of all, is anyone familiar with this type of “furring” under the hardwood floors (there is another location in the house that I viewed where the 3/4″ oak floors have the same construction)? Second, if I take the vinyl, linoleum, and underlayment off, is adding tile going to be an issue? My experience tells me that the floor may flex and tiles subsequently “pop”, and that removing the maple floor is the best way to go. However, this would add a considerable amount of time and cost to the job, so any alternate suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Kevin
Replies
I have come across this many times in 1920's houses but never with 3/4 maple, but with 3/8 or 1/2. Don't know why it was done except that all the houses I have seen it in had a 1x rough sawn sub floor. Given this, the reasoning might be to even the floor out by putting it on these sleepers, then waves in the sub floor would be less noticable. Or in the case of the thinner floor, just to plain build it up to meet a 3/4 floor somewhere else. Everyone I have seen used lath as the furring.
As for removing the maple if it were my house I probably would, just to have a good surface and no flex but you may still need to get some plywood down depending on joist spacing. Also so the finished tile floor is not above adjoring floors by too much.
Wallyo
Edited 1/16/2008 8:06 pm ET by wallyo
I can't tell you why it's done however I'm interested myself
Ran into it at my Grandparents house a few years ago installating a new wood floor to replace the old wood floor with a similiar number of layers ending with a top layer of vinyl that was shot.
My story ended with my grandfather insisting the furring strips were necessary to let the floor "breathe". This is inspite of the fact the hardwood in the hallway that bumped up to the kitchen did not have them. We could have just installed 3/4" flooring and ended up with the same height... But alas I decided to not argue with my grandfather further then I did.
Imagine this... He found some crappy 5/16 pre-finsihed floor that he liked, so we had to rip down those damn stips, install them, deck that with 5/8 ply, and then install the floor... It was a complete PITA but there's no arguing with a 75 year old stubborn German man...
It would have cost less $ and a lot less time to just buy the 3/4 ;)
cagiv I take it your granddad's old flooring that was on the furring was less then 3/4 thick. Making it a final 3/4's thick.I have also wondered that when the flooring is less then 3/4's did it have anything to do with the war or the depression and wood was too expensive or short in supply. So it was built up to match the hieght of a thicker fir or pine floor that was more plentiful. Wallyo
The old wood floor appeared to be around 1/2" thick if memory serves
Not a bad hypothesis you have though the house I'm talking about was build post WWII.
You need to see what the tile manufacturer says about a sufficient sub-base. If it were me, I'd strip to the sub-floor and start there. Depending on if it were out of level, probably patch any holes, add floor leveler, then cement backer board. But you might also need another layer of plywood to have sufficient rigidity for the tile.
I had a similar floor in my kitchen. I stripped the the old linoleum and had the floor refinished. It looks awesome. There are imperfections in the floor from some of the nail holes but they were filled in and really lend character to the floor and they are barely noticeable. the grain and birds eyes in that old maple really overcome any minor flaws from the underlayment. It is also in keeping with the character of the house. Plus you cant get 12 to 16 foot long maple boards anywhere I know these days. That old wood is really beautiful.
It has been done in a lot of these older homes and they all had the same type of covering.
KevinAs Rjgogo says, unless you really want tile, start by pulling up the top layer and see what is left of the maple, sometimes the nail holes are no tas bad as you think they will be.Wallyo
Thanks to all, I think I will start by pulling up everything above the maple to see what I have to work with. If the maple is too far gone, I will pull that up as well and lay down some 3/4" ply so I have a solid substrate to work from.
Sounds like a good plan, just wear a Proper mask, you don't know if the top stuff has asbesto in it. Let us know how it turns out also.Wallyo
Edited 1/17/2008 5:08 pm ET by wallyo