I’ve sharpened my chainsaw barely by hand a few times but have never touched the limiter teeth in between the cutters.
I have trouble when I cut with it. I have to bear down on the saw to get it to cut. When I do it will start to cut real well and feed but then it quits and just rides like it won’t feed.
If I grind down the limiter tooth will this let it feed? I watched a utube video and it said the limiter tooth should be about a couple of sheets paper lower than the cutters.
I’d like to make it feed more aggressively so it takes very little pressure through the cut.
Replies
Two types of chains.
HO and Pro.
HO=anti kick..bad
Pro= no anti...good
Get the right chain from Oregon or Baileys, and when you sharpen the cutters, about every 3 filings ( don't use a gimmick grinder) then grind the depth gages a SMIDGE. I mean .005 or so..otherwise, if the motor isn't 3.0 cc or more the saw will stall in full bar cuts.
If you have a factory supplied chain ( this is where you say what powerplant is running what bar, cutting what wood), you NEED to knock down the gages a tad.
I file in shop and in field 5x or so, then if I still have cutters left, I'll MAYBE send it out for a grind..but I just buy more chain and start over if the grind line is getting close on my beater chains.
Being ambidextrous helps with filing, elsewise, the saw will cut a curve...you tend to sharpen to your strong side..3 swipes on the full file..tap the file between swipes to "clean" it..if nothing else..it makes you look like you know what you are doing, like a blacky smiting the anvil for bounce and rhythem between hammer blows.
The raker/depth goodies are harder steel and require a flat file, no many of us carry a flat file in the woods, so the common way is to hit them when the chain is down or you have a grinder handy.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I'm curious, what gives the HO chain an anti-kickback feature? I run Husq chains on my Husq350 just because they're easier to select than figuring out which Oregon chain I need. Would this make a difference and what is the difference?
"I'm curious, what gives the HO chain an anti-kickback feature?"
The depth control thingies are larger and higher. That's the only difference I know of.
The only tie my prayers are never answered is on the golf coure [Billy Graham]
They have a hook gage, vs. a flat. It is closer to the cutter than the "normal" gages I was raised with. IOW, the hook part is real close to the cutter limiting chip size, as much as depth.
I guess it's not a good thing to say, but I grind them down till the saw won't carry the load on full bar. I want streams of wood, not dust coming out. Think cheese offa grater.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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The safety type chains are like router bits, the gages limit the chip load and "snag" that can cause too big of a chip for the saw/operater to handle...this is esp true when "nose cutting" or when the bar is not fully engaged , like when the pawls( if so equipped) are not engaged.
Seriously, anyone not broken in on sawing must pay heed to the warnings of KB..it happens fast and gets ugly, just like every other spinning flesh eater we use. COMMON SENSE is the thing thing not sold with tools, you earn it by trail and error. Most warnings I have read are just as dangerous as no warning at all, or so law suit written as to make the tool, useless.
I use a 4.5" wheel on a grinder type tool, scares the bejeezus outta evry one that see it..but ya know what? It's like a scalpel in a Dr.'s hands when you understand the forces and chip loads involved, not scary at all, just requires an understanding of what goes where, when you do what to where with X amt. of pressure given the Y amt of resistance, by the z amt. of restraint..like locked elbows, and rigid stance, sway into the cut..
All of this comes from simple start points, and a basic knowledge of physics, cutter geometry and motor noise helps steer you into safe..if its gettin hairy, STOP and look, listen and Smell..all tools are designed to do a task..you push it beyond that task...? Well, welcome to my world..but I KNOW from use, the limits and bounds..and am willing to question them and push it..call me suicidal, but I get there, with out too much blood lost.
Dull tools will kill you ..sharp tools make for a cleaner departure, stupidity don't care.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I don't have a multimaster. So when it came time to shave down the frame of my door, I used one of those chainsaw wheels in my grinder.Like you said. Understand what forces you are working with, and have complete control every second. And it is a piece of cake.
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"It's like a scalpel in a Dr.'s hands when you understand the forces and chip loads involved, not scary at all, just requires an understanding of what goes where, when you do what to where with X amt. of pressure given the Y amt of resistance, by the z amt. of restraint..like locked elbows, and rigid stance, sway into the cut.."Excellent stuff here folks. You have to think every second where the forces are, both resisting and pulling, and reserve a little of the thinking to the next three seconds in the future.
Wide stance, fore and aft, at the saws, bend at the waist. Never allow your weight momentum to become your enemy....allow it to work for you by working with it.A sharp blade on any saw allows for a light touch and maximum control.Boss was right in that you should always touch up the chain every time you go to use the saw. It takes about two minutes.
Yes, you need to file down the depth guages (or rakers, or whatever you want to call them). These are responsible for setting and limiting the depth of cut which determines the thickness of chips.
The best way is to get a file guage; Stihl makes nice ones pre-set to various depths.
The natural tendency for most testosterone-poisoned minds is to file the cr@p out of them so it "cuts real good". Bad move. This increases the likelihood of kickback, stresses the chain and cutters, and will bog down the motor.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
someone posted a PDF file here on BT a while back that told all about chainsaw sharpening. Unfortunately I can't come up with it at the moment. Anybody else save that thing?
Like Sphere said - Get good chains. Stihl marks their "greenhorn" chains with green paint. The pro chains have some yellow paint on them.
If you can't do a good job of sharpening the chains yourself take them to a shop. If the chain cuts well when ya get it back, you'll know they do a good job.
Avoid the temptation to let the chain go as long as possible before you sharpen it. Every time you fill the saw up with gas you should hit the teeth once with a file.
Keep spare chains - Don't just use one. that way if one gets a bit dull you can swap out chains and not waste a lot of time wearing one down.
"Keep spare chains - Don't just use one. that way if one gets a bit dull you can swap out chains and not waste a lot of time wearing one down"A spare anything is always a good idea, but I can sharpen a chain as fast or faster than I can change it and adjust the new one in - unless some yokel has been trying to cut rocks with it, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"A spare anything is always a good idea, but I can sharpen a chain as fast or faster than I can change it and adjust the new one in - unless some yokel has been trying to cut rocks with it"
I can change 'em pretty fast. But I ain't as old as you are.
(-:
We always seem to be cutting brush in difficult places - Around fences and such. Hitting something with the chain is a fairly common occurrence.
They also dull really quickly in creek bottoms where the trees have been flooded. I assume it's because there's some sand in the bark.
So for me - Spare chains are a must.
In the Lord's Prayer the first petition is for daily bread. No one can worship God or love his neighbor no an empty stomach. [Woodrow Wilson]
A spare anything is always a good idea,
A spare's not as good as a strike, but having a spare DW or GF will get you struck.
I'm like Boss. I keep a file to touch up a chain, but I let someone else sharpen it. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Paul, my tree selection here is pinion pine and mostly juniper.
Shaggy bark stuff with loads of sand.
Joe H
Your problem is probably not the depth guides. I've got the Stihl gage they sell to measure the height of them. I've run dozens of chains until there's nothing left of the cutting tooth, but a small triangle & have never had to grid the depth guides down.
Sharpening a chain properly takes a real talent. I never mastered it. I struggled for about 20 years. Never could get a chain nearly as sharp as a new one. Tried guides, Dremel attachments, etc. Finally gave up & bought the Oregon grinder type sharpener. The difference is night & day.
The best idea is what Boss suggested. Get several chains & rotate them instead of trying to field sharpen. If you don't do much cutting, you can have them professionally sharpened. However, if you do fairly frequently, you'll pay for the Oregon grinder in no time.
There is a power tool yard place on the way to my kids school. I'll ask them how much. I'm not spending much these days. I'll ask about pro chains too.
I don't dull my chains much. I use a Stihl file and am very carefull. But I might have gotten off on the size, shape, etc.
I'll talk to them. Might as well see what they have to offer. It's not like they are real busy right now. They do sell snow blowers though.
I'm no expert but started dulling chains 42 years ago. Mostly as just an occasional user professionally but full time to provide my own heating fuel and sometimes saw logs to date. Any way I typically file down the rakers about twice in the life of a chain. I use a carlton fileoplate guide to determine if the rakers are high on one or two teeth and then give all the rakers the same number of strokes with a flat file. It isn't an exacting science for most applications and about any type height guage will do. I also use the fileoplate guide every few filings to maintain the toothangle (not every time as the guide dulls your file too fast) and it's all good. Anytime I'm around a real logger I let them snicker at my efforts and then con them into a nice quick sharpening of my saw. I always buy a regular flat top chain but would not discourage anyone from a low kick style, would encourage it even. They cut well when new. They don't just have higher rakers but extra ones in the case of the guard link style or big ones on the bumperlink style. I keep one chain on until it's dead unless faced with a certain dulling situation like cross tie trimming or similar horror in which case I put on an old one. Did anyone mention you need to flat file the burr from the edges of your bar every few chains? Retired until my next job.
>>>Did anyone mention you need to flat file the burr from the edges of your bar every few chains?I hope I'm not hijacking the thread; I can't resist a question.I've often read/heard about correcting bar wear by either filing or with a gizmo that squishes the chain track true. I've got a 1999 Husqvarna 371XP with a 28" Oregon Pro bar that, after 20-odd chains and many hours of work isn't showing any bar wear, at least to the nekid eye. Is this normal? (Maybe 20 chains isn't that much?)Yes, I flip the bar with each chain change and use good bar oil.Thanks,Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
I've gotten by without ever resquishing or regrooving a bar as they usually die first and I don't buy high end bars. But I don't ever recall a bar not needing the ridge filed off the sides after wearing out a few chains. It's a visible sharp ridge, easy to feel too and it will really slow cutting especially on a worn chain. You'll know if you have it and it takes only a couple minutes to file off with the bar removed. I would have guessed any bar with the usage you describe to have needed the filing at least once but i have been wrong before, possibly more than once.Retired until my next job.
>>>I would have guessed any bar with the usage you describe to have needed the filing at least once but i have been wrong before, possibly more than once.No, you're probably right; I just never knew about this issue. I'll give it a look; thanks.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
A couple things here.
If you are doing heavy cutting the bar not only wears and mushrooms, but the channel splays out, leaving a sloppy "track". This allows the chain to sort of lean, and thus doesn't cut efficiently, or sometimes not at all. You can tell if you lay the chain in the kerf and it just spins but no chips/dust come out.BTW, if curls or large chips aren't coming off, the chain is quite dull.
For that there is a specific tool to close the track. Maybe fifteen=twenty bucks. Most sharpening shops do not have them.
You notice the chains always cut wonderfully when new, but never that well again. The reason is most sharpening machines run at 3400 RPMs This blues the steel. On most chains there is a microscopic layer of Chromium plated on the teeth. In a perfect world the steel wears away a little faster than the Chrome. However, when sharpened with a fast grinder the temper is lost( you can tell by a very slight blueing on the top edge of the tooth) from the underlying steel and it wears too quickly. This then exposes too much of that chromium layer and it quickly chips off. Thus poor cutting.
It ain't easy to find a good shop. The best bet is to bite the bullet and buy one from Baileys being sure the wheel runs slowly. Replace the pink wheel with a black one which is much softer,, and use a product called slick or easy grind to lubricate the wheel.
Betcha didn't know there was that much #### about chain sharpening, did you?
Stef
Edited 12/11/2008 1:42 pm ET by fatboy2
"Betcha didn't know there was that much #### about chain sharpening, did you?"
Yeah and a full 3/10 of that is BS.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I never knew that about the chrome layering. Thanks!I always hand sharpen because it seemed to me that any shop I took it to for that took way too much steel off, shortening the life of the chain.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I had this discussion with an aborist last fall, someone was telling him the same line about plating and "new" ceramic coatings on chains.
He is a nationally recogonized Arborist, and buys chain by the reel from Oregon http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/cross_ref_guides/OCS_03.pdf
They said it was a bunch of Hooey..they supply 99% of the market...so if indeed someone touts a chrome plated cutter, it is not readily available to us in the general market.
That and chain grinders being rotating at fixed 3400 rpm causes me to suspect the post that said that..the arbor may run at 1750, the wheel may br 4" diameter, and also, it may be silicon carbide or aluminum oxide at damm near any speed, what with belts that the Foley-Belsaw use..so anyone speaking "Pink or Black" or Green or White, and burning cutters, has a tiff to get over..blueing the cutter is a bad thing, and a dremel type grinder at 22K RPM in bad hands, is just as much to blame as a poorly set up Belsaw, at 1750.
It's bunk.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
They said it was a bunch of Hooey..they supply 99% of the market...so if indeed someone touts a chrome plated cutter, it is not readily available to us in the general market.
After BH said something about green or yellow packaging on Stihl's chains I had to go pull a stihl and a husky chain off my dashboard to check.
From the Stihl package
Oilmatic 3
Channeling groove for better lubrication.
Laser engraved markings for correct filling.
Pre-stretched for less adjustment
Chromized cutter teeth for durability
Additional reservoir for chain lubricant.
I always assumed most chains were Oregon chains just repackaged for different manufacturers.
Hmmm, I guess he was wrong tellin me that..just goes to show ya, can't believe everythingya hear.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Take an Oregon chain and compare it side by side to a Stihl chain, and you will see that the Stihl is superior in every way.
Bo,
Exactly so. In my experience they last about trwice as long between sharpenings.
Stef
Aw, come on Sphere. I have been using those things for 10 years all day long, and I own one of those grinders. I also have the pink and black wheels. Pink is the same as the ones you wouldn't sharpen a knife on and black is very soft. The "chromeBunk" came directly from a Stihl rep.
Five saws and inumerable chains ain't bunk
Stef
The problem with taking your chain to get it sharpened is that almost all of these guys use the same setting no matter what type of chain you bring them.
I have use Oregon grinders for sharpening our saws for many years. We have three different types and sizes of chains that we use and they must be sharpened differently to work properly.
I have seen some of these guys grind off 1/4 of a tooth just because the grinder was set at the wrong angle or depth.
My father is a part-time logger, and keeps his chains sharp using a filing fixture which holds the file on the bar at the correct angle, with a frame and sliding member to guide it. Same idea as the hand miter box that I think Craftsman does/did make with an integral saw guided on a rail.
Clamp the bar into a vise to hold it still, clamp the file guide on the bar, and start filing. Use the same number of strokes on each tooth. Hit the teeth going one direction, then flip the file the other direction and do the ones facing the other way.
When done, grab the little file guide and hit the depth guides a lick or 2.
Just as quick as hand filing but a consistent angle.
Not sure of the brand or where he got it - he's been using it for at least 20 years.
Don
That's an Oregon tool. We've used them out in the woods since I was a kid....which was some time ago!
Logging is a relatively "clean" cutting environment. Usually the chain gets dull simply from cutting so many feet of timber or from dirt in the bark on softwoods.
Those filers worked very well. You slam the bar vise into a stump with the back of the axe, clamp the bar and file. It takes about 10 minutes max. Just enough time to get cold in the winter or cool off in the summer.
Now we grind chains and keep spares on hand. I can change a chain in a couple of minutes usually.