Hi,
I have been working on a review on chalkboxes for FH. Anybody been using chalkboxes that are new and different?
I do know that chalkbox technology needs to be updated. Up until recently, we have been using the same old boxes that were available in the 50s.
Thanks for your help, larry haun
Replies
I saw something floating around here the other day about Chalk Boxes. The string was replaced by a cable and there were "fuzzy sections" 1.5" long every 16". When you snapped it down, it gave you chalk lines for your stud spacing.
Some specs about how the cable only stretched minimally even at long distances.
I also know that some folks here use the chalk in their DW mud to identify the topcoat. . . .
Would be interesting to ask this Q over at Knots, too. I think I recall seeing some japanese ink or chalk boxes that someone made . . .would be neat to show them as a sidebar in the article.
Here is one reason discussion.
http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=56698.1
White chaulk? I use it to snap lines on finished walls. Layout a chair rail or handrail. The chaulk has a very slight pink tint so you can see it. Much better than using a blue line!You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Marv,
White chalk is also the only color which Trex recommends for easy removal from their decking materials. p.11, product and installation guide.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
If youre working somewhere it doesn't matter if the line stays, concrete dye sticks real well. You can get 15 lines or so on felt maybe more if you pay attention. But do not put it where it could bleed thru the fellas a long time ago snapped a wet red line on a white p/u everytime it got a lil damp for a couple months you could see some of that line. You can buy it at most mason supply places red yellow and black work best.
Dan
Regular chalkboxes I've pretty much given up on. They never last more than 24 hours before they break or jam. I have 2 alternates now. One is a Tajima inkline. Good for in or out, if you use the waterproof black ink. Nice tight line. Inside makes very good (but not always so clean - a little splatter) lines for chair rails, moldings, crown.
I got a Keeson (sp?) with 75 ft of thick line. That one I like well. It's a big box, but it doesn't break, and for framing it leaves a line thats clean and visible.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
another vote for tajima . got the red,blue and silver , all good and no regrets so far. . ."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Thanks, chalkline folks. I appreciated your input. Keep snapping. larry
i dont suppose that this is new info, but..
I wont try the ink boxes because im scared that they will get sawdust and dirt stuck to the wet ink.
Plus Im really happy with the cheapo plastic, yellow and black, Irwin- straightline box.
It winds up really fast, the winder can be pressed down to realease string and released to stop releasing.. and it takes a good beating, and its light enough to chuck at the back of my bosses head without feeling guilty
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--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
I have had real good luck with the $5.00 Stanley box. I change out the line with dacron fishing line and it's unbeatable. I just bought a new box after losing my last one after 2 years. not bad for $5.
fishing line?? odd, doesent seem like it would "soak up" the chaulk.. or wind very well.. or stay wound______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
the winder can be pressed down to realease string and released to stop releasing..
Skye, I owned and used one of those boxes for three or four years before a rookie showed me that trick! Lol! I jusr found out about that last January!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
thats pretty funny blue, I guess those hand motions become so automatic that it takes a newbie who is exploring each tool more than you to notice those changes..
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--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
I think that you should mention in your article that inklines from Japan (Tajima, etc.) are refined tools dating back to 2000 years ago. Even though the models exported to North America have hooks (correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the "pin" end types are not sold), carpenters in Japan use the "pin" types almost exclusively. The pin types are great if you are laying out a handrail cut diagram on a plywood floor, or for making cuts in the middle of a flat surface, where you cant hook onto anything. Also, ink boxes have a little door that opens up to the sponge holding the ink. I keep a small bamboo marking instrument (like a pencil) in my toolbag which I dip into the sponge in my inkbox and make notes on posts and pieces of wood I intend to notch or cut.
Does anybody know if the "pin" type inkbox/chaulboxes were ever marketed in North America? I'd be interested in finding out.
Dear Shokunin,
Thanks for your reply to my questions about chalklines.
I have been a carpenter for many years. The chalklines I used in 1950 were simple---you pulled a line through a half-round piece of chalk, loaded the cotton string, and snapped a line.
I do recall a fellow carpenter from those times having an inkline from Japan. The one he had was rather messy to use. I think it was a pin line, but since then, I have never seen another inkline on the market until Tajima came out with their model. Their's, of course, has a hook on the end of the line rather than a pin.
Is there a website that I could look at to see the pin lines you are talking about?
Hope all goes well with you, larry haun
Hi. Yes, the older stlye of ink lines could be quite messy. My old boss here used to have one. I can lead you to a page with pics of inklines and accessories. It is a Japanese website with no English, but it is still pretty easy to find the pics. First, go to http://www.homemaking.co.jp
On the left hand side of the page there are lists of products in Japanese. Carpenters hand tools are #9 from the top. Just click on that and it'll bring you to a page with lots of pics of product categories. Inklines/chaulklines are on the right hand side at the top. Click on that and you can see lots of pics.
Although I'm not a framer, sometimes I frame houses when I can't get a framing crew to set-up the prefab 2x4 panels here. When I set-up the gable end walls, I usually do everything by ink lines on the 3rd floor plywood. This would be difficult with a hook-type ink line. The ink lines I use cost about $20.00 US, I get about a year or so of heavy use out of them before I replace the string and hook.
Anyway, good luck with your article, look forward to reading it.
Scott S
Hi Scott,
I checked out thewebsite. Nice. Thanks for the lead.
None of the framers that I knew clear back to the 50s until now ever used the hook on chalkboxes. Whenever we got a new line, the first thing we did was cut off the hook at the end and then tie a loop in the string. When doing layout, we used a carpenter's awl to secure one end of the line. This is done by putting the point of the awl through the loop, setting the point on the layout or cut mark, and then driving the awl into the wood by a sharp hit with the lower part of the hand. If you sharpen your awl now and then, this function is easy to do and won't slip around like a cheap hook.
When working on concrete, we used a smaller coffee can full of plumber's lead and just set the can on the line.
Thanks for getting back to me....larry
like i said previous with the tajima, i'm pretty happy with. now that i stop and think about it the silver /ink chalk line . does leak some , and i keep out of my nail bags. and has a home usually rests on a plastic lid i got from chinese food ( there's ajoke in there some where) the red i have outfitted with a rocket anchor, is attached with a "sheath" and works just brilliant for me . for cement i put a kerf cut in a brick. and a spackle bucket filled with what ever on top of that. nothing that will get me into mensa. but that rocket anchorâ„¢ is a nice addition with tajima.... slainte' b."expectations are premeditated resentments"
for concrete layout lines I keep a couple harden concrete nailes in my pouch just got to tack them in and snap the line. The nails can be used over and over again
I think I saw the pin-type in the Lee Valley Catalog. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
I've seen them in lee valley too and my first thought was "do they sell those pins seperately, maybe as a replacement part, they look like they'ed be really useful"...BUIC
I have seen modern Japanese ink lines with a point in the Japan Woodworker catalog. Here is a link: http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=19.752.1&dept_id=12993 Lee Valley has a pointed chalk line, but not an ink line.
I have the hooked Tajima myself, but I haven't used it enough to get the hang of it. My lines tend to curve. Could I be applying too much or too little tension, or is there a special way to snap the line? I had been pulling it up with a nail to avoid inky fingers. Is this wrong? Thanks for any input.
Nils Nordstrom
Hi. I always keep the lines pretty tight when I am snapping them, and usually will have somebody hold a finger down on the line in the middle of the span, if the span is more than 16'. Then I'll snap in the middle of each side. My fingers get inky but can't really be avoided, you need to hold the string and "drop" it to get a good line. Before I snap the line I lift it up 2-3 times to make sure it is free of interferences. The pin-type inklines elevate the string a little from the surface, keeping it fairly free from chips in the surface you are snapping on, so you get a truer line.
If you are using a chaulk line with a pin, be careful you don't pull it too hard when the pin is in a soft surface, as the pin will fly back towards you and is dangerous. I haven't seen anybody injured this way yet, but I've always figured that's why the pin-types are not that popular in North America.
For ink-lines, wet the line before first use and before putting ink into the sponge. Wash the sponge out every two weeks or so to keep the ink from gumming up too much in the sponge. Also, don't fill the inkbox with water everytime, once every 5 times is OK - water will do the other 4 times.
Hope this helps, it's stuff I picked up from Japanese carpenters.
Regards,Scott S
-I've had many types of chaulk boxes over the years but I always change out the lines, even on a brand new box. I'm spoiled, for many years I've been using a fishing line called "squid line" ( that's what it's called here on long island, NY. I've been told by friends who fish it's a regional description ) It's a line with no synthetic components and is one of the few fishing lines that holds chaulk well. It also makes a thin, clean, visible line with no "spitting". The line holds up very well and comes in different test strengths, in effect, different thicknesses. Much cheaper and just as good as a $30 Tajima chaulk box. And that's not a slam on them, they ARE very good boxes in their own right. Another thing I've found is that the fine textured japanese chaulks do help create a better quality line. Hope this helps, look foward to the article...BUIC
I am with you on the line change out--Never heard of Squid line--I happened upon a Catfish line 50 lb test that lays down a line that is perfect for cabinet workAfter the other thread I looked around and found the spool--it is nylon that is braided or woven somehow that leaves valleys in the surface that hold the caulk,I have heard and looked around for some of the finer chaulk that should fill the depressions better for more lines in a row--instead of just 2 or so.Thanks for the ideas. Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I have settled on Starretts older metal chalk line. It does what it is suppose to do doesn't take up a lot of room in a tool belt. I chuckle ever time a co worker removes his big speed reel first while looking for something else in his tool belt. it's usually the same guy that brags about how fast his chalk line reels in. I guess it all averages out in the long run.
RU
How about this--I had this old tape that was a total POS except for one thing that it did contribute to my cause----the belt clip---Took the clip and drilled out the hole and attached it to my chaulk box with the upper screw.Work so good at keeping the thing out of my bags so I didn't have to move it to get to the other stuff that two of my buddies followed suit.just thought I would share with ya. Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Mike,
Good idea on transferring the tape clip to your chalk box. That sounds like one for Tips and Techniques in Fine Homebuilding mag. Send it to Chuck Miller, Taunton Press, Box 5506, Newtown, CT 06470
Thanks for the input---everyone. larry haun
I don't like the old ones either. If I'm gonna use one, I like the ones with fast return speeds. Also really like the ones you can just push down on the handle and let the line out. One thing I do which I haven't seen anyone else do is keep one chalk line without any chalk on it in my toolbox. That way if I need to string something real quick I can do it quickly and retrieve the string easily. Beats pulling out a piece of mason's line and rolling it up on a stick.
God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it. [Daniel Webster]
Probabally stupid questions
ink lines, do they use ink instead of chaulk?
If it is waterproof, and you get it on your hands, how do you wash it off ???
we just use the regular speed line chalk lines and regular old chalk
Boss,
I use a clean chalkline reel for my big plumb bob.
Changed the line to a somewhat heavier braided line for minimum spin. Holds 50' easy.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Da**n, I knew I wasn't the only smart guy here LOL
The older model Starretts metal chalk line. Can you still buy them? This type is what I have been using for years. Sometimes could buy them as 'Sears' brand.They are more compact and easier to handle. I can keep tension on the line with my thumb on the folded handle as I am laying out line.
I can hook the line on a nail on a 12/12 roof, drop the box in my pouch on that side, and take off across the rafters/trusses with full use of my hands.
I used to take the folded out knob and give it a twist with pliers to make it spin easier.
Now I don't see new ones being sold anywhere.you probably look like your DadI look like heck
I bought my last one at ABC Supply, here is the online address http://www.abccatalog.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=4965963139
I have seen them also at Sears and a few with Bluegrass on them but they were older.
RU
"I guess it all averages out in the long run."
My thoughts exactly.
I use the SpeedLine (by Irwin?) and it does take up room in the pouch. Have to move it around every now and then, which is annoying.
Larry,
still doing habitat homes in Coos Bay area?
love to come help you on one
Hi,
Yes, I still build Habitat for Humanity houses here in Coos Bay. I have been here 9 years and we have built 14 HFH houses.
In the Dec. issue of Fine Homebuilding, I had an article on simple Truss Roofs. This is a roof we did on a Habitat house.
Come help---larry
Larry,
I like the old metal standby, modified for a little better performance. I unspool the old line and replace it w/ fly-line backer (the stuff you use to let the big ones run) purchased at the local tackle store. Holds plenty of chalk with the little lines, makes a tighter mark, and you just can't break those old metal cases. Well, I work with a guy who can break anything, but, you get the idea.
-duke
Hi Duke,
Thanks for the info on chalklines. Always good to hear from other carpenters.
Who is this guy you are working with? take care, larry
f w i w - .. ." He who makes a beast out of one's self, get's rid of the pain of being a man"
"who is this guy you are working with?"Me. He's a bit slow with regard to reply's as well....-dukeDCG Your Neighbor's Contractor LLC"A wrongdoer is often a man who has left something undone, not always one who has done something."--Marcus Aurelius
I still have the chalk box my father used with the half round chalk. No slot in it for adding chalk.
I am color blind. When setting walls on a plywood deck the red line disappears when I get the wall plate close to it. I use black mortar color in my box.
Hi,
Thanks for the mail. Yes, I like black mortar color also. Here on the coast, I use a chalkbox with black chalk. It has iron in it I think which means it won't wash away in wet weather. larry haun