Maybe? Went to Depo tonight for some lumber and some black iron pipe lengths – for Pony clamps, luckily. This is normally for pressurized gas pipe, okay? Yeah, I know that’s low pressure.
Found this – looks like the metal is delaminating – all cracked around the end with fine cracks that may not show up in the pix. Kind of scary to not have noticed and installed it as gas line!
This pipe was in a factory bundle – I opened it. It seems to have cracked / delaminated during the rolling process – the weld is on the other side.
I keep having more and more personal experience with poor metallurgy – fasteners, camshafts, Weedeater engine castings, yadda yadda
Forrest
Edited 11/8/2008 10:24 pm ET by McDesign
Replies
one word, nasty!
Boy, now I'm paranoid - have I insulted the Asian community? Will this get me booted? Did I say Chinese? I meant, uhh, he!!, who else has a steel industry - Indonesia?
Forrest - waiting for the knock on the door . . .
I would guess that these days any negative reference to any ethnic group or nationality would be on the level of a hate crime. You will need a bank of lawyers.
Could those "flakes" be scraps that got caught in the rolling of the pipe? Meaning they were not part of the metal piece that was formed into a pipe, but an extra shard that got smooshed into the piece that became the rolled pipe.
Either way, very sloppy.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
man I know complains about the off shore steel doing that often and worse....
and steel is his living....
he thinks it was either formed too cold or cooled too quickly or poor steel to start with or a combination of all the above...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
And if there is ever a catastrophic failure try proving where the pipe came from.
You should see how that junk threads... nasty.
The OD often seems to be a bit out of tolerance... makes it a bit more difficult to get the dies to start.
Too bad it is getting so difficult to find USA made black iron pipe.
Re goods from China, try this exercise.
Go to a Target store. They are everywhere. Walk the aisles and examine product packaging. Count your total number of incidents of inspection, and within those, count the number that aren't Chinese-made. Very very slim minority.
After that, walk or drive over to the nearby Wal-Mart and do the same. Then Lowe's, Depot, any other bigbox store.
Then, once you find out the extent of this all, rent and watch the fascinating documentary Manufactured Landscapes, to see what goes on over there. Netflix has it.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I'm a Lowes guy, but a recent job has had me going into the Depot.
I cant believe the changes in product line.
There is waaaay too many "Depot" lines in there for me.
I think they are hitting hard times and buying as cheap as possible.
I bought some duplex receptacles there a week ago. They were so cheap I stopped and checked for a UL label before I put them in the cart.
I think i'm done with them. I have severe quality concerns with some of the things they are stocking now.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Amen Brother
They paid the successul CEO how much to quit? Since they hired the new guy things have gone so rapidly down hill I can't believe it's the same company.. The old CEO had Home Depot the largest retail buiness in America ahead of WallMart. Now they are sliding down into third place and their quarterly profits are in the toilet..
To make up for it they are pressuring buyers to buy cheaper and you see the results..
Many of the HD woes are rooted in the policies instituted by the old CEO, Bob Nardelli.
He got $120,000,000.00 as a severance package.
He had 7 years to destroy the company, it won't turn around in a year or two, especially in the current economy.
The USA should take advantage of the situation NOW. We can't compete against cheap goods, but we can compete in making first class items. Local Chinese importers are looking to export items to China. High quality items from here sell easily there.
But Unions here need a basic mind change-get rid of members who do not reflect the quality, standards and work ethics that would make anyone proud. I would not want my brother in law working along with me if he can't cut it.
We are here at breaktime because we care about quality. I is a shame how I have seen things slide downhill. I bet when HD finds out about the quality of the gas pipe, very little will be done about it. They will gladly exchange it for you. But we find that is not good enough!!
the problem is deeper than that.
Few Americans really know or understand quality. We all went through the second grade where we were taught to add and subtract and unfortuently that seems to be the limit of our real abilities..
They look at the style of a piece of furniture ...whatever... and check the price.. little thought is spent looking at the quality of the materials and the method of construction which results in glued and stapled dressers which fall apart in a few years forcing the further purchase of more dressers etc..
That second grade mindset then forces them to purchase cheaply made shoddy goods all of their life. They pass on that price shopping approach to their children and their children etc..
It's amplified in how we select our politicians, how we evaulate everything in our lives including mate selection..
Girls look to superficial displays of wealth rather than the charcter of potential mates. That results in our currant 50% divorce rate..
"Girls look to superficial displays of wealth rather than the charcter of potential mates. That results in our currant 50% divorce rate.."On the surface, I'd say that is a pretty superficial observation.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I still fail to see what raisins have to do with the divorce rate.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
?divorced girls are sweet as raisins??
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Currantly I believe it is so.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
I'ts not just the box stores. Current job our mech. subs got all supplies from ETNA, heavy commercial plumbing suppliers typical of almost all jobs.
You use to see iron fittings come in boxes stamped made in U.S.A/union label/etc..., the boxes would be divided like egg crates with a square for each fitting and the next layer separated by a piece of cardboard with the same dividers again. The fittings where usually stamped USA also.
Now they just come in full boxes no labels or stamps. Uncleaned and the box bottom full of filings. Most likely from China.
Sure you'll get a bad casting or weld now and than from anywhere but when they charged the high pressure steam lines for this project they had leaks everywhere. Not from their welding, that had to performed by certified welders on record.
The culprit was the long side seam of the cast/weld of all the 3/4" 90's. A year later some still give way out of no where based on system demand and the last weakest link being repaired. Fix one and another one will show up later.
These are 60-120 PSI, 260 degree steam lines now inside an occupied and functioning patient care areas of a hospital. It's only a matter of time before somebody gets killed with this culture of cheapness.
People who are unraisinable are more likely to get divorced.
I still fail to see what raisins have to do with the divorce rate.
-- You question his raisining?
Edited 11/10/2008 11:13 am ET by DelawareDave61
I suppose at his age any raisining is a glorious event.:o)Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
"Girls look to superficial displays of wealth rather than the charcter of potential mates. That results in our currant 50% divorce rate.."
On the surface, I'd say that is a pretty superficial observation.
------------
On the surface, I'd say that is a pretty one-sided observation. What are the boys looking for? Reminds me of a joke I heard recently. Probably an ancient joke, but I heard it recently.
Guy had three girlfriends, couldn't choose which he wanted to marry. (Yes, the joke assumes it's entirely his choice.) So he gave each of them $1000 to she what she'd do with it. First one spent it to make herself more beautiful, for him. Second one bought him gifts. Third one invested it and made a bundle. (This was a while ago.)
So who did he ask to marry him? The one with the biggest b00bs, of course.
Gee,
that was certainly a...
stretch.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
He's still trying to stretch it to a 69
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe he's a she.
be or maybe a he/she or a she/it
Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Edited 11/10/2008 6:13 pm ET by rez
Also known as a "shim" :)
I hir'd that.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
"That results in our currant 50% divorce rate.."
Another reason I prefer raisins.
I like raisin hell.
Forrest
I was in HD on Saturday, when it is usually full of couples who have dressed up to go shopping for stuff to fill their lives, and they only had one cash open. Same at Rona. My local maybe 600 sf bakery needs two open to keep up.
I'd bet that HD knows it is the cheapest pipe they could possibly find.China is quite capable of manufacturing quality goods. Problem is, outfits over here don't want to pay the premium for them and bring in the cheap stuff because margins are better.
"China is quite capable of manufacturing quality goods."Well, yes but.........!If I may relate some personal experience. In a previous life I worked for a company that used a lot of a certain type of plastic. It was common, but to work properly it needed to be within certain fairly strict specifications. We sent the specs to China.The samples came in--a couple of tons. They worked perfectly. So it was ordered. After about 3 months we could not get our processing line to work. After close examination, we found out that they had been substituting anything close. Also, due to the type of specifications, it was very hard for us to find the problem without very close inspection. We sent them a nastygram, and told them that all products would be held for inspection, and no payments would be made until all tests were completed. Performance immediately improved.(Melamine, anyone?)
care to add what you said to this thread????
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=110174.1
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"care to add what you said to this thread????
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=110174.1"
Nah, too much work for something that has already been hashed out. But feel free to reference it yourself.
There are many things sold in a city by the box stores which will not pass the city code they are sold in. It amazes me how that can be done.
It may well be that HD was duped by a manufacturer in China. I've no doubt that honesty isn't necessarily the first priority of everyone in that wild west style economy and the lesson that standards mean something has to be more thoroughly learned. The counterpoint that western buyers need to learn is that lower prices usually mean more care in purchasing has to be taken.Your own experience does show that the Chinese are capable of quality work once they realize that is an absolute requirement.
I was at a conference recently, and one of the keynote speakers was a company CEO....he was very clear in stating that he thought China could, right now, manufacture to the highest standards in the world. As long as the spec was good.
HD here (my part of Nova Scotia), now now longer delivers as of a week ago or so. A couple of months ago, my buddy wanted them to deliver some materials to his place, literally 3-4 minutes up the road.....they quoted $45 plus tax, so we threw the materials in my truck. Definitely wondering what's going on with them.
Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Except that he grew the company to astonishing levels. Brought it from a minor player in the retail world to the Number one retail store in America..
The reason he was ousted had more to do with a class of personalities on the board than any real failing of his..
I believe that 120 million was later reduced to something like 85 million (still a massive amount) but considering he achieved virtually all of the goals he was set out to achieve I fail to understand why he was fired..
This is all speculation based on various readings in Business Week and the like. So I'd really love to have been a fly on the board room wall in that case..
The founders were Arthur and Bernie.
Nardelli took it over from them in 2001 when they retired. I wouldn't consider HD a "minor player" at that point.
Nardelli instituted all of the cost cutting measures that have destroyed Home Depot in the hopes of boosting profits and the share price for short term gains.
The founders neglected improvements, to be sure, but overall, the company was better off before Nardelli took over.
Frank Blake has a difficult job.
Difficult to get customers to come back when poor service sent them packing under Nardelli's reign.
And now Nardelli is (IIRC) leading Chrysler to new heights.
HD did not turn on a dime with change of CEO. They were dropping value, dropping growth and earnings, and lowering quality for a minimum of two quarters - to three years before he left. he had announced those three years previous that now that they had market saturation, they were going to add more growth by going after more customers, His plan to do that was to target an average household income of 57K instead of 83K.The only way to do that is with cheaper goods.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Looks to me like the pipe is just perfect for clamps ..... and little else!
Look, none of us can be experts on everything ... nor should we be! If you can't know the product, then know your vendor.
Whether it is a light bulb, a wood stud, or a length of tubing .... if quality is of any import, you're better off looking to a real supply house.
Why? Because plumbers, etc., cost too much for the contractor to be dealing with call backs and re-work. The contractor isn't about to build his business on unreliable materials or suppliers. As a result, professional supply houses avoid questionable vendors.
I'll make this very easy for all of you.
STOP BUYING (LOWEST PRICE) #### FROM THESE BOX STORES. Keep it up and you will not have anyone to bitch at but yourselves as the smaller yards will be gone. You will not be able to point a finger at anybody else.
Look in the mirror and say "I can make a difference".