A next door neighbor sees my with some tools on my way into the house, and asks if I could possibly put some skylights in his roof. I’ve done this before, but he has some he’s already purchased. They are Sunbeam (?), hard plastic things which just sit on the roof. They are labled as “self-falshing” and they don’t really give you much option. The design has the shingles laying on 2-3 inches of plastic (1/4″ thick), with a remaining inch open to the skylight/window-pane body (which is raised two or three inches above the roof line). The whole thing is one solid piece. Instructions call for a broad bead of mastic to be laid down around the perimeter, and the shingles flop on this.
I’ve given him a small talk about the quality of the windows (poor), and the fact that he will be relying on mastic/caulk/shmutz to keep the water out, that water will channel into the seam, and that the expansion/cantraction ice in winter etc. will work over whatever he seals it with pretty well. In short, it is not a good design and will fail eventually. He still wants to go ahead, and I told him I’d come here to look for any wisdom (read mistakes and tragedy) that any of you all might posess when it comes to this sort of thing. Better products, cheating some form of flashing, is it not as bad as I thought, etc.
This is the first question I’ve asked, and I’m interested in learning just about everything, so let er rip.
Grace and Peace, Hans Rauch
Life is too short to learn from your own mistakes.
Replies
You have already given him the reasons it will fail. No matter what you charge, disclaimer you get him to sign, or water test you devise when complete, it will be your fault when it fails.
Walk away from this one.
I would rather have someone say that I refussed to install substandard products than make a few bucks and be accussed of the failure. I don't have a problem telling a client that I don't do sh!t work at any price.
Dave
Eary last summer I put 2 in a shed roof. It was hot and dry all summer. They cracked / dried out from the UV exposure I suspect. Just a bunch of really fine hairline cracks. Come winter the crack size increased dramaticly. They didn't survive their first winter. Snow melt and rain found its way in at a fair rate.
I used Vulkuum 10% for mastic. The lites were HO funished.
When I changed them out I discovered that they had leaked thru the plastic that was cracked at bubble / flange intersection. Also they came off the roof in pieces of their own accord.
Shopping for new lites, I saw that there were some of these same kind / type cracked sitting on the shelf at the store.
I'm surprised that they are still getting away with selling those things.
Not only do they leak at flash connection but they fail independently.
We use to put them into new tract houses in Florida when I was learning to shingle back in the dark ages. Then they would get replaced with real skylights in a couple or three years.
Excellence is its own reward!
I used those bubbles billions of years ago...They get dark, crack, I've even seen the mastic suck up through the plastic and turn em' an ugly blackish color.
Seems stupid to use such junk knowing it will fail....I'd walk away from this gig!
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 7/17/2003 7:23:38 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Reminds me of a lesson my pappy used to tell me. If you loan money to a friend you will have neither. Do not install this for your next door neighbor. Tell him it is crap. Let him pick his own contractor. If you get involved you will lose a friend.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Hans,
I put a couple of those things in a garage once. You're dead right about them. They are crap and, however little they cost, they aren't worth the price.
Ron
i would not even climb up on the roof to install these things you are just asking for problems skylights are enough of a problem even when you use the best. the time to install skylights is just before a new roof is put down pass on this one
Thank you all who responded, I did not do the job.
Would've with reservation,
but consultation
results in refutation.
Grace and Peace, Hans Rauch
Life is too short to learn from your own mistakes.
Heeding consultation
Deciding on refutation
Results in your reputation
Remaining intact.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
I have been on this road too. And Hind sight, and all of that. But Do you know that some times It can hurt your rep as well. Nothing wrong with playing it safe , Thats for sure. Just think of the rep You could get for yourself, If You were Free, from All your fears of faliure. Free Enough to look at the product , and the job , and create something that works. Pooling all of your experience and knowledge, of available prducts and hardware. Something that works inspite of the directions. Inspite of, and Better than, The way you were supposed to do it. Relying On your knowledge of how the good ones Are installed, Why can't you design , adapt, and create a solution to the problem. And Then ,Charge Full Price.
Your a Carpenter! By God, And your just not going to take it anymore!
Please don't tell my Insurance company I said that.Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?
one other thought....If the guy is "cheap" and has the time, he can make his own skylights. Its pretty simple. Some 2x4 thermopane glass and aluminum or vinyl bent over the 2x with a flange fold at the bottom.
I made four of those suckas for a house I lived in 15 years ago and they still don't leak (I've visited there since).
Be cheap
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Any idea on the insulation values of that kind of light?
Seems like a way out, but
1.) the typical homeowner attraction of Home Despot products is not crafstmanship or inherent beauty and quality, but the promise of eye candy without spending money or time (they can have their cake and eat it too, not interested in those who will say otherwise), and
2.) he already got another friend to put them in. No skin off my back, I'm booked for another two months, and this winter I'll probably help him finish the third (top) floor.
But for future reference I'd be intereseted in the window you describe.
Thanks for the info. Grace and Peace, Hans Rauch
Life is too short to learn from your own mistakes.
you can design it yourself according to your tastes but way back when I needed to save every penny on my first house......I used 2x4's for the frames and used my brake to bend coil stock over the tops, down the sides, and a four inch flange with about 1/2" of the top and side edges bent up and over to deter any water they may have gotten under the shingles which I flashing cemented down under the flange with a bead alongside the skylights (top and sides).
I bought some "stock" low E thermo pane glass from a big distributer near me pretty inexpesivly.Laid the glass in a nice big bead of clear silicone.
I also screwed a cpl of small L brackets over the glass at the bottoms (just in case) and into the frame bottom.
Down the line when I had time I bent some L's to silicone down ontop of the glass edges to trim them out a bit.
In total I think I made over a half a dozen of these in less than a day and none ever leaked to this day,
Not sure of the R value but 1 1/2" of wood frame and a good quality thermo glass....I magaine better than a store bought one.....just not as pretty.
I rocked almost up to the glass with a vinyl rock channel across the tops.
Not to mention I used a Laura Ashley dark blue wallpaper in the skylight wells and on the ceilings ( a low vaulted ceiling). Was PAPER wallpaper with no vinyl in it at all. I'd have seen leaks on that paper instantly. Putting that damn dark blue paper wallpaper up on a vaulted ceiling was way harder than installing and building the skylights..lol.
Be well
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
r-30 vs. r4 maybe. skylights dont hold heat. have honey knit you thermal shades.
Build up a curb outside on the roof, with 2 x 's, or make your trimmer wider. Buy a piece of fixed insulted glass mount it down in the well. Put the plastic domes on top with lots of silicone like andy said. Maybe you could use Blue silicone like you buy at the auto parts store, which is used for gaskets, or High Temp silicone. If you won't have to look at it.
Using quality step flasing of course. Trim it out between the sash and the dome, with some of that home depot decking material, caulk it. Make sure your glass is vaccuumed out in between, and clean the way you want it. The more air space the more R value I would guess. Heck, if you go to a surplus store, You might even find a large double hung, you can take apart. to use for fixed sash. for about 50 bucks. Thats two windows in one. Cap it and caulk it. Finish out the inside of the well. I think I might try this myself.Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?