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Discussion Forum

Chemically Sensitive Client

Bowz | Posted in General Discussion on April 19, 2004 07:06am

Has anyone built for, or worked for a person with MCS, (Multiple Chemical Sensitivities) ?

I’m looking for  resources, contacts, websites, and general info regarding indoor air quality as it relates to chemical sensitivities.

The possible project involves adding a “clean room” to part of a church for a chemically hypersensitive family.

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  1. Catskinner | Apr 19, 2004 07:23am | #1

    Here's a few sites that I think are reliable;

    http://www.buildinggreen.com/

    http://www.usgbc.org/

    http://www.eeba.org/

    I've built such houses, and worked as a site super for a company that specialized in such things. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor, and a generally commendable venue in which we may try to improve the way we practice our craft.

    I also think that anyone who ventures into green building should be careful. I've had wonderful clients, and I've had some who I am quite sure are the ones who put the "mental" in environmental. Sometimes chemical sensitivity isn't their only problem.

    My recommendation is a set of signed specifications to go with the drawings.

    DRC

    1. DavidThomas | Apr 19, 2004 08:48am | #2

      I agree with Dave that some folks who, "who put the "mental" in environmental" are common among the "MCS" crowd. This from someone (me) who has spent the last 17 years getting carcinogens out of your drinking water!

      Two anecdotes: 1) Had a co-worker who claimed MCS. If we had the carpets cleaned, told her, and did everything possible to aerate the place for 48 hours prior to Monday morning, she'd go into hives, migranes, etc and have to take a few days off. If we just didn't tell her, there was no problem.

      2) Some city (SF?) spent a ton a money to build subsidized housing for a group of MCS clients. Absolutely the most extremely non-chemical-containing housing you could imagine. Nothing but concrete and SS shelving. No carpet, no particle board, urea glues, paint, no nothing! And to a one, they all had reactions to the new housing and claimed it had been built wrong.

      Anyone who doubts the mind-body connection should look at the case histories when an unknown white powder is released and one person freaks. Everyone else then also freaks. And claims a cover-up when it later tests out to be white flour.

      Are there "sick-buildings"? Sure, especially really tight buildings, with poor ventilation and lots of high-VOC finishes and furnishings. Ever met a foam-sprayer or a hot-tar roofer who was right in the head?! But if someone is still complaining a month after opening the windows, the problem is not in the carpet, it is between their ears.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

  2. User avater
    mike_guertin | Apr 19, 2004 02:39pm | #3

    I've built a couple MCS homes several years ago before resources were available.  I did the job T&M because at the time there wasn't a lot of resources and more information and materials were coming on the market.   That's still the case somewhat (new materials). 

    The main problem I found (aside from the 'mental factor' well described by Dave Crosby and Dave Thomas) is that each client has different sensitivities.  Isolating those specific sensitivities is important so you don't go overboard eliminating or including materials.

    Some suggestions:

    Make sure the client realizes that the project will take longer than a typical one - specialty materials often need longer lede times.

    Have the clients 'test' their sensivity to products.  Client should know how to do this that suits them best.  Sleeping near a piece of product is a common approach.

    Make the client responsible for doing research and making choices.  You pick it - you own it; works both ways.  If you select a product and 'it's the problem' once the house is complete - you're on the hook.  Client picks the product - client owns the product.  Now this doesn't mean you can avoid your own research; it's important for both you and client to know what you're selecting.

    Document everything.  Get signed papers from client accepting the use of each material (even the nails.....).  This will take a lot of time but a cleint with MCS who is serious about getting the purest home will be willing to pay for it.

    I charged cost plus a flat fee (which was a high fee).  There was no way to determine the details of the project ahead of time.  For instance, my client selected wood sealers and non-voc paint from AFM in California.  Not available locally so it was a special order.  Between hardwood floor finishes, wall and ceiling paint and primers, specialty sealers for other purposes - we ordered 50 gallons of stuff.  The painter went nuts because it took 8 coats to do the job.  Paint was very weak on pigments so it didn't cover.  Painter's price ended up being 3X typical.

    Mike Guertin

  3. User avater
    rjw | Apr 19, 2004 04:51pm | #4

    Sad to say, but get a good lawyer to document the deal - you need to have well covered fundament in situations like this.

    Your client is in a far superior position than you to determine what areas are of concern and what the potential health risks are. (It won't do you any any good to read the product info and warnings -the client has to.)

    In today's world, the clients' responsibilities for this aspect of the project have to be clearly specified in writing AND understood. (Insist that the client also be represented by counsel in putting the contract together!)

    Consider getting an industrial hygienist formally involved - they are very experienced with designating the appropriate experts to make the expert decisions and to set forth the material and process specifications.

    "Everybody knows" it's no big deal not getting the structure weathered in right away.

    What "everybody knows" is not going to help you when the client comes back to make mold claims.

    Now, if an IH or other expert had set forth the specifications for how soon to weather-in and what temporary measures to take up until that point, and if you follow the specs (and document compliance -pics, check-lists) you get to sit in the court audience, not up at the table!

    _______________________


    Tool Donations Sought

    I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

    Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

    Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!


    1. Seth_Frankel | Apr 19, 2004 05:03pm | #5

      Anyone see the 1995 movie "SAFE" starring Julianne Moore? It takes chemical sensitivity to the extreme. It's been described as a "horror movie of the soul"."Nothing is a

      mistake. There is no win

      and there is no fail . . . there is only

      make."

      John Cage

    2. User avater
      JeffBuck | Apr 20, 2004 09:49am | #12

      I agree with Bob 100% here ....

      I'd find a good lawyer and have it all documented ... and signed off on.

      each and every detail.

      Personally .. I'd even lay it out up front ...

      as in ... this is probably going to cost you multiples of "standard" construction ... and since my liability on this project could be huge .... I have to factor into the special construction and special materials ... the additional legal and insurance costs.

      Then add a percentage!

      Could be a nice job for nice people .....ya might be making life easy(er) for someone ...

      Could be the worst job of your life and ruin your company.

      JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

           Artistry in Carpentry                

  4. fdampier5 | Apr 19, 2004 07:18pm | #6

    Wood sensitivity can be a major issue here.. common framing lumber often isn't acceptable because of sensitivety to the pitch common in most framing lumber and the treatment they are sprayed with..

      A saw mill might provide you with alternative woods.  For example replace fir/pine  with ash, basswood, maple, birch,  or elm etc..

     There is a tremendous amount of work involved here because often the rough sawn wood will need to be surfaced..

      Be carefull about the samples too.  Green wood gives off oders that dry wood won't.  thus you'll need to dry all samples prior to having the client test them..

  5. moltenmetal | Apr 19, 2004 07:26pm | #7

    I agree with the rest:  be very, very careful if you undertake this kind of work and make sure you have very thorough contracts up front- because the likelihood is that NO building you construct for some people with MCS could ever make them feel "right".

    Anyone who claims to have an allergic reaction to formaldehyde, for example, and hence is concerned about particle board and plywood because of out-gassing from the phenol-formaldehyde resin glue, would expire the instant they set foot in a new car.  The closed-in, sun-baked environment inside a new car is absolutely loaded with formaldehyde, plasticizers and monomers.  Most people react to these with pleasure, not allergic reactions- it's called "new car smell".  I don't doubt that there are some rare individuals who ARE allergic to formaldehyde, I just think that there are a lot fewer of them than there are people claiming to have MCS.  There's no question that formaldehyde is hazardous at very high concentrations, and I don't personally intend to take a bath in formalin until well after I'm dead, but I won't be religiously ridding my house of MDF either.

    I once asked a toxicologist if they knew what had caused all the bruhaha with urea formaldehyde foam insulation (UFFI) all those years back.  I reasoned that it certainly was neither the urea nor the formaldehyde in the majority of cases.  The toxicologist told me that according to the literature he'd read, the majority of the cases where respiratory symptoms were encountered could be traced to mold spores.  The molds occurred because of bad installation practices, and they bloomed particularly well because the urea in badly-mixed foam is an excellent nitrogen source (i.e. a fertillizer).   And we know there are lots of people with proven allergic sensitivities to high concentrations of mold spores.

    Take MSG as another example:  most people stopped getting MSG headaches when the food industry stopped calling it MSG and started calling it "hydrolyzed vegetable protein".  The latter is, you guessed it, up to 40% MSG...

    I respect people who are intent on making liveable spaces for themselves and reducing the chemical burden in their homes.  Given the complexity of the human body and its interaction with chemical mixtures, it's just commonsense to ventilate your home well, use non-lead plumbing solder, store hazardous materials outside the home, and minimize the amount of raw chemical exposure you get by taking the right precautions during fabrication (i.e. painting, floor finishing etc.).  But if you're really concerned about exposure to known hazardous chemicals, the first and most important thing you need to do is ban smoking in your home.  Worrying about the particle board and plywood should be fairly far down the list of concerns IMHO.

    1. User avater
      rjw | Apr 19, 2004 11:41pm | #9

      Amidst the observations about peoples' over and psychological reactions (which I see plenty of myself) do try to keep in mind that some people develop chemical sensitivities over long term exposures, and what doesn't effect them much today may have increasing effects over time.

      And then there are the people who will be with me going through a home for 2-3 hours with no "symptoms" whatsoever and then start gasping and panting when I mention I saw a little mold in the crawl space!

      _______________________

      Tool Donations Sought

      I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

      Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

      Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!

      1. Bowz | Apr 20, 2004 07:35am | #10

        Thank you for the responses.

        A little more info on this project, as it was late when I posted it. It is for my wife, who seems to be hypersensitive to new carpet, oil based paints, and fragrances in general. These include laundry soaps, perfume, cologne, deodorants, fabric softeners, and household cleaning solutions. Within 10 minutes of exposure to brand new carpet  she begins to have a reaction. After it has offgassed for a few years it is not a problem. Also people who wear heavy amounts of perfume she must get away from. She can tolerate a small amount, however it seems to lower her ability to tolerate other chemicals. Her congregation is building a new church, and after explaining that she will not be able to attend anymore because of the new carpet, the building committee asked what she would need.

        The basics we came up with were an area seperated from the perfumes, and fragrances of the general congregation, hard surface floor, with a completely seperate HVAC system. Along with an air cleaner in the room, and no cleaning chemicals used in it. Sort of like a crying room for parents with small children, only this would be for adults.

        While I appreciate that it could be partly the "mental" part of environmental, (it has often crossed my mind, and sometimes crossed my lips), I can also testify to her increased health, when we have eliminated a lot of chemicals, fragrances, and built a house with good ventilation, a lot of windows to open, and with no carpet. Her health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, shortly after we were married. Some have suggested she is allergic to me. LOL.  But really that is when she moved into my fixer-upper house that we continued to renovate. Painting, varnishing, re-finishing floors, and new carpet.  We  sold that one and moved into a 30 year old ranch, where the previous owners had dogs, so we replaced some of the carpets. It also had some mold problems, and was not ventilated real well. That was when her health hit rock bottom. Headaches, constant nausea, inability to sleep, but too tired to get out of bed much. For that and a bunch of other reasons we built a different house, taking into account some of the suggestions in the book "The Healing House", FHB #46, and some others.

        I also appreciate the advice directed at covering my butt, however that is not an issue.

        What I am looking for is input to give to the building committee, and the architect. For instance is ther a type of air filter, or small area HVAC system that is used in hospital operating rooms or something like that. I am not very familiar with commercial work, and would not have any idea what is possible. MIL, DW's sister, and niece all have the same peoblems. I checked those web sites and will be ordering a few books.

        Thanks again.

        1. glatt | Apr 20, 2004 04:36pm | #13

          So your wife would spend her time in this clean room instead of in the main church with everyone else?  That's really too bad.  Sounds like she might as well stay at home if she's segregated like that.  Would there be a big window into the church where everyone else is, or would it be some hidden room off to the side?

          It sounds like the rug is the biggest concern.  Couldn't the church look into some other kind of rug?  If they are willing to build some sort of special room for her, maybe getting a special rug would be easier/cheaper.  They still make some area rugs out of natural fibers like wool and cotton.  Maybe a rug supplier could do a special run for you that would end up costing less than a separate room.  Has anyone looked into this possibility? A very quick and dirty Google search brought this site up: http://www.ecobydesign.com/shop/carpet/

          I know you mentioned that heavy pefumes are also a problem, but if she has been attending the same church for a while, she has probably figured out a way to deal with this issue already.

          Edited 4/20/2004 9:38 am ET by Glatt

        2. User avater
          rjw | Apr 20, 2004 05:08pm | #14

          >>I also appreciate the advice directed at covering my butt, however that is not an issue [since this is my wife].

          (As a divorced man, and someone who works with divorced people in my church, I'd suggest that you not be quite sure about that, but such a comment would be, at best, only marginally funny {G})

          I hope some of the HVAC types here will pop in with expert advice.

          Some considerations to look into - if it uses forced air heating an cooling, one of the 6" Aprilaire type filters may well be helpful:

          http://www.aprilaire.com/category.asp?ID=78AF591022CB430194A5737F8522419E&catID=0B10B06EA1EA4D14A4722CD120E8C7F6

          In fact, you might want to check out their entire sight

          There are a lot of links of varying quality at http://www.iaqa.org/mold_resources.htm

          (Don't ignore the mold resources there, but it's starting to look like the mold issue has been overblown somewhat, even for sensitive types.

          Be sure that the HVAC type doesn't inadvertently create a low pressure room without providing a filtered/protected air inlet. http://www.skuttle.com/216.html

          Be aware that many builders have not caught onto the fact that letting the structure get wet before weather-in can lead to significant mold issues after the building does get weathered-in because the air tightness standards we now follow can create a perfect environment for mold growth at the earliest stages of the project.

          I believe that is an issue that the prospective contract bidders should be questioned about.

          There are no easy, absolute answers at this point on this issue, but IMO you want to look for a builder (for the whole project) who is staying current with these issues.

          You've probably already thought of this, but I'd also suggest that in designing such an area (and bless your church for being so aware of it's member's needs) the committee also consider (i) other uses such a facility might be used for and (ii) keep future potential needs in mind. E.g., if your church uses projection and AV stuff now, be sure there are sufficient wiring chases to keep that room up with the other rooms.

          Also - would it be a problem for your wife if that room were also used during her presence as a diaper changing room? Or perhaps as a "sweating it out just before the wedding" room for the groom and best man just before weddings?

          Perhaps as a separate little sanctuary for incidental use during the week? Perhaps as a "clean room" where computer and electronic equipment can be maintained?

          And I don't agree entirely with the thought that, with her situation, the need for church attendance is lessened. Many believe that our spiritual lives are strictly between us and God; but many of us also believe that the community of a congregation and the sharing and the experience of meeting fellow Christians in a sanctified place can greatly aid that process.

          _______________________

          Tool Donations Sought

          I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

          Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

          Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!

        3. DavidThomas | Apr 20, 2004 05:21pm | #15

          "began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, shortly after we were married. . . . into my fixer-upper house . . . .  MIL, DW's sister, and niece all have the same peoblems."

          So I see two explanations here.  One is the medical angle - that there is some unknown disease process, affecting primarily women, that wrecks havoc on multiple systems of their bodies when exposed to a wide range of smells.

          The other is the pyschological which it sounds like you don't rule out entirely.  I would note that if 1) marriage resulted in a decrease in attention focused on pursuit and courting, 2) attention on the fixer-upper resulted in less attention to DW, and 3) this is a multi-generational learned behavior / coping mechanism then maybe the solution is not reduced chemical exposure but increased attention on her.

          Getting the church to build her her own sub-chapel?  It's been pretty effective as an attention-getting device!

          To distinguish between the medi- and pyscho- scenerios, I'd look at if the symptoms occur with exposure or with the awareness/perception of exposure.  Ever react to odorless VOCs?   And do new problem areas crop up as old ones are dealt with (i.e. there's always a new way to get attention?) or do medical problems abate for any duration w/o lots of focus on her if the source is simply removed. 

          "For instance is there a type of air filter, or small area HVAC system"

          Sure.  hospitals have isolation wards, especially for TB but that is mostly negative-pressure, particulate-filtering stuff.  Electronics manufacturers have clean rooms but those are engineered on-site rather than being bolted together out of off-the-shelf components. 

          If I needed very fresh air in a room, I'd 1) open a window, 2) open a window and run a heater or 3) install an HRV to exchange and heat exchange a lot of air.  If a whole-house HRV is installed for one room, it will have a very high exchange rate.  I've got one in my own house because the house is so tight.

          Often I need to reduce the volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in the air - it's part of environmental engineering: gasoline vapors, vinylchloride, TCE, TCA, benzene, etc.  Activated carbon is very effective at that.  The simplest solution is a half-face respirator - about $25 and $8 for a pair of carbon filters (the black ones - they are color coded).  She'll look and sound like Darth Vader, but it WILL absorb the VOCs and $33 is pretty dang cost effective.  Keep it in a zip-lock when not in use and it should last a year of Sundays.  When someone's perfume is noticed, it is time for new $8 filter cartridges.

          Activated carbon could also be used in a whole-room setting by circulating air through a carbon bed.  Some furnace filters have carbon in them and that is great for marketing and window dressing.  Hooking one or two up to a box fan would work well but there aren't a lot of grams of carbon in each one, so I'd keep it in a trash bag 6 days a week.  Otherwise, its small capacity will be used up on all the stuff in the air.

          At work, I'm usually using a 200-pound, dry weight carbon bed in a 55-gallon drum.  They go for about $700.  Hooking  a blower up to the 2" openings would remove VOCs very effectively for a very long time.  Its capacity would be about 50 pounds of VOCs absorbed.

          Or just move to Berkeley, CA - most of the churches there have a fragence-free section on one side of the aisle.  If MCS is really a medical condition, it must be caused by a virus, bacteria, or prion.  Because it sure seems to be contagious.

          Another spin on the multi-generational pyscho-drama is the control aspect.  Are these women control freaks in other ways, too?  Because getting to decide what carpet the congregation buys, what perfume/deodorant everyone wears, what house you live in, what pets are okay, etc suggests that an odorless environment might not be the only win going on here.

          Edited for typos.

          David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

          Edited 4/20/2004 10:51 am ET by David Thomas

          1. Dagwood | Apr 20, 2004 05:49pm | #16

            I just wanted to pitch in here that chem sensitivity can be very real and acute, but since its one of those things thats impossible to diagnose (Like chronic fatigue, or chronic pain syndromes) it can be abused.

            When I was a teen I worked in a rural hardware store. One hot summer day a full case of Liquid Diazinon fell in the back of a truck. Every bottle in that case smashed. So being a good helper, I got down on my hands and knees and using old rags and paper towels, cleaned up the mess. The fumes were overwhelming, and I near passed out, but I stuck to it. Today I wonder how I could've been so stupid.

            Ever since then I have had severe reactions to strong chemicals. Whether its varsol, or spray chemicals around the house, or sometimes just the smells from the factories around can send me in these spasming headaches that have me squinting and rubbing my head and trying any number of contortions to get the pain to go away. I've mentioned it to my doctor, but he can't offer me any advice, so I live with it. I don't ask for special treatment, and I don't complain about 16 yr olds cologne (High schools should teach kids how to not overdo it), but I know a lot of people who do use these things and that really bugs me.

            In any case good luck with your project, I hope you find a solution that works for your wife without dissasociating her from her friends. (I suspect that once her "box" is built she will complain that sitting alone at church just isn't the same, and the experience is no longer worthwhile to her.)View Image

          2. User avater
            rjw | Apr 20, 2004 05:59pm | #17

            >>(I suspect that once her "box" is built she will complain that sitting alone at church just isn't the same, and the experience is no longer worthwhile to her.)

            Or maybe some real Christians will emerge, take her chemical sensitivities into account and join you and her in the "clean room!"

            _______________________

            Tool Donations Sought

            I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

            Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

            Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!

          3. Dagwood | Apr 20, 2004 06:56pm | #18

            Good Point Bob. I guess I have to start looking out for my fellow man a little better!

            If her syndrome is that acute though, perfume etc. in the sealed room could be more intense than out in the congregation. I guess friends would take that into account for her though.

            DagwoodView Image

          4. Ruby | Apr 20, 2004 08:40pm | #20

            May also consider a whole house vacuum system that when cleaning exhausts to the outside, not back into the room.

          5. Bowz | Apr 21, 2004 03:52pm | #21

            Thanks again for the responses.

            It has sparked some interesting discussions between Dw and me.  I have let her read the entire post. The majority of the questions raised we have already  discussed, (Psycho-somatic illness, issues of control, and MIL being "wacko").

            Just a few quick facts that may add some more information to the discussion. 1.) She is seeing a genuine doctor, MD, for treatment (my requirement). Although he is out of the mainstream of the medical profession. 2. She can recall 4 times in the last 2 years when she has had a reaction, without knowing that there was new carpet until later on. 3.) She is not un-educated as she holds 2 college degrees, one in psycology, and one in education. 4.) Currently teaches part-time in a public school. 5.) To avoid the fragrances at the current church, before sitting down she looks the crowd over, and knows who the primary offenders are and avoids sitting near them. 6.) Some church members have accomodated her by not wearing perfume and cologne. Some have asked what other things they can do to not affect her. 

          6. User avater
            aimless | Apr 21, 2004 06:44pm | #22

            Just a little anecdotal stuff: one does not have to be MCS to have problems with some chemicals. I am not chemically sensitive. But I have on occasion had to leave fabric stores because 'something' in the store was causing a reaction. This has happened occasionally in clothing stores as well. I am one of those few women who doesn't like to shop, and that is part of the reason why. New cars make me nauseous. Now that I know why, as soon as the budget allows I'm getting a Rolls Royce with genuine burl walnut dash. Perfume? When I have to ride the elevator with some, I excuse myself only on the first sneeze.  During the summer when we reroofed our house, with the incredibly dirty job of stripping the shake roof,  I walked around with black eyes. Not because somebody was knocking me around, but because of allergies. They are called allergic shiners.  It might have been the dirt, but I got them even on days when we weren't stripping, so it might have been the underlayment or the shingles, or some unknown chemical.

            However, while I sympathize with the sufferer and think it is nice of the church to want to accomodate the only member with problems, I would hope the room would have other uses. I've always liked churches with "mothers' rooms" where infants can be brought. Infants are also chemically sensitive, as well as germ sensitive and you don't really want to expose them to the general congregation because of the risk of a lethal case of RSV. I'd think a room to accomodate both would work well.  If that isn't the case, then I'd say the one person who has problems could save her church a few dollars by wearing a breathing apparatus during the services.  She could make it fun and have the kids decorate it to make it a designer respirator. Maybe spend that extra money on charitable works?

          7. DavidThomas | Apr 21, 2004 07:27pm | #23

            "fabric stores because 'something' in the store was causing a reaction. This has happened occasionally in clothing stores as well"

            Amy, I worked in a backpacking store that sold clothing.  Sometimes we'd get in a shipment that had a real nasty smell to it.  Like your nose is telling you, ''don't breath this stuff".  We asked the manufacturer and apparently some containers are fumigated upon arrival in the US so that pests can't get in.

            I've since encountered that in a few new clothing pruchases and it goes away with the first washing.  Really more of a problem for store workers and owners.  Can't wash them BEFORE they are bought.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

          8. User avater
            aimless | Apr 21, 2004 09:39pm | #24

            David,

              Fumigation could well be it. I've never stuck around long enough to find out whether the fabric store deals in a lot of imports.  I always just assumed that it was dye of some kind, and whatever 'it' was I didn't want to buy it so I'd leave the store.

          9. Jamie_Buxton | Apr 22, 2004 12:31am | #26

            Using the MCS room for babies is a nice idea, but probably not workable.   For many MCS sufferers, fragrances are a big trigger.   Fragrances are included in lots and lots of products.  In particular, they're included in many cleaning products --  "... makes your room smell fresher !!!"   I'll bet that most things for dealing with baby "by-products" contain fragrances.

        4. Jamie_Buxton | Apr 20, 2004 07:32pm | #19

          I have a customer who has MCS.   Like your wife, she is sensitive to fragrances -- which turn out to be included in all sorts of products --- and petrochemicals.   (She isn't bothered by strong odors like cigarette smoke.)   I found a lot of info online; search with "MCS".

          I'd be surprised if there are HVAC components aimed at organic vapors.   There are face masks and respirators with filters to handle that, but most HVAC filters are aimed at larger particles like pollen and dust.    It may be that a separate fresh air supply is the best start for you.

          There is a company called AFM, which specializes in building materials for the chemically sensitive.   http://www.afmsafecoat.com

        5. DanH | Apr 21, 2004 10:48pm | #25

          Your wife probably has one of the conditions I described -- a defect in the chemistry of either the liver or the mitochondria with regard to the metabolism of certain chemicals, primarily solvents. Normally the liver or mitochondria would easily "burn" these, but some people lack critical enzymes to do this, so the chemicals build up to toxic levels.

          The primary offenders here are synthetic carpets, laminated paneling and flooring, and assorted plastics. Some perfumes and the like may contain related chemicals, but often the perceived sensitivity to perfumes is psychological. Likewise, most household cleaners do not contain these chemicals (though things like furniture wax and PineSol may) but there is a psychological reaction to the odors.

      2. Bowz | Apr 20, 2004 07:56am | #11

        "some people develope chemical sensitivities over long term exposure."

        This is one of the thoughts that has been suggested as DW was a painter and wallpaper hanger, for about 5 years.

        Also she has an unbelievably accute sense of smell.  Having detected natural gas leaks in our appliances and a friend's house, that barely showed up on the gas company leak detecting meters.

  6. DanH | Apr 19, 2004 08:04pm | #8

    I've kind of followed the topic of MCS for a number of years, due to having some medical conditions that kind of cross paths with MCS from time to time. My take is that probably half of those who claim MCS are purely mental cases, while the other half tend to overreact to the sensitivities they do have.

    There certainly are folks who are simply allergic to certain things, possibly including wood dust, certain types of mold, etc, that might be in a building. Others have one of several types of chemical sensitivity. The two primary types are those based on mitochondrial disorders and those based on liver disorders. These folks can't eliminate relatively minor amounts of certain solvents and other chemicals that wouldn't bother a normal person.

    The problem with many of these people is that they often get in a situation where they believe if they can smell ANYTHING then they assume that some noxious chemical is present, and they thus become "conditioned" to react accordingly. This can turn a minor sensitivity into a major disability.

    I would say that an ordinary contractor shouldn't undertake a major MCS "safe" project without having a consultant on board who makes all the decisions and takes all the heat. Otherwise, given the varying degree of craziness present, you could end up in an ugly mess.

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