I just saw this in ConsumerReports.org
They don’t mention sources, just the term “distributors”.
…The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain…Be kind to your children….they will choose your nursing home.…aim low boys, they’re ridin’ shetland ponies !!
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This is why I stick with the locally grown products - Sheetrock & USG in my area. Made in China is the first sign of problems.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
Meet me at House & Builder!
Of course, that proud local meat packer (Westland) was in the good ol' U.S., slaughtering good ol' Merrican downer cattle for the good ol' U.S. school lunch program.
just sayin.
k
Oh.. I'm not saying it can't happen here. Just that stuff imported from China is far, far, far more likely to be A) defective, B) tainted and/or C) Frikin Poisonous!~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
Has anyone thought about what happens to the fasteners we use to hang drywall [ from the east], [ nails , screws] kind-a-like the new treated lumber does with some screws and nails, yes I'm saying there are chemicals in that drywall from china that might to the trick, I.m sounding alittle crazy but the chinese don't care if they mix lime with crush stone with different metals in it!?and add alittle this to this?
I read in another article USG was one of the companies named in a lawsuit over defective Chinese drywall.http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&date=20090412&id=9778777
While the article mentions USG, and USG might even be named in the suit ... I am confident in speculating that not a single panel of Chinese drywall was made for USG.
I may not like USG very much - that's another story - but I must admit that they are not about to compromise on their product ... expecially for safety reasons.
but I must admit that they are not about to compromise on their product
The problem that arises, though, is that manufacturing quality in the far east often exceeds US capabilities. There is a reason precision machinery is no longer manufactured in the US, for the most part - the US does not have the manufacturing technology to produce the quality of parts that China can, for example.
However, what we hear about in the news are the low end manufacturers, rather than the high end. We don't hear that Chinese machine tools are the world's best - we hear that Chinese toothpaste and US almonds have impurities.
I work with a lot of equipment and order a fair amount of industrial supplies from many of the big suppliers like MSC, Mcmaster Carr, Travers, etc. On the few occassions I have ordered import "precision" tooling I've been disappointed. If they can't make a #60 drill bit I doubt their ability to make a mill is any better.
Edited 4/19/2009 8:54 am ET by ted
On the few occassions I have ordered import "precision" tooling I've been disappointed.
Chances are the "US made" tooling you have been ordering is in fact foreign made. I'm not aware of any manufacturing lines for drill bits that are still operating in the US. I do know that the only US made machine tools are mid and low grade lines - the top end equipment is all made overseas.
There are still plenty of tooling suppliers in the U.S. Chicago Latrobe being just one of them. MSC Industrial usually offers several grades of tooling and they'll tell you if it is USA or import.
There are still plenty of tooling suppliers in the U.S.
Suppliers, yes, manufacturers, no. I am not aware of a single manufacturer who still really makes drill bits in the US - though there are some that (legally) sell foreign made bits as "made in USA".
The link, supporting the statements about USG and asbestos litigation, got me doing some digging - with some interesting results.
First, I'll stand behind my earlier statement regarding USG, and their getting the asbestos out of their products long before any of their competitors.
I note that the bankruptcy resulted not only from litigation, but against the backdrop of expenses incurred fighting a take-over asttempt. That they could do this, and at the same time build one of the world's tallest buildings, is interesting.
What I also learned - and had not really thought about - was that gypsum isn't only mined ... it is also 'manufactured' in some processes used to clean up emissions from coal burning power plants.
Gee, can anyone think of a country with huge coal reserves, an explosively developing economy, and massive pollution? Would this also happen to be a country involved in countless scandals related to contaminated products?
I think we know now why the Chinese drywall is loaded with sulphur compounds (other than gypsum). Simply put, they are making the stuff out of inadequately refined raw material.
To paraphrase a union song ... "Look for the UL lable." I am confident that the contaminated drywall is not only nasty - it would also fail any fire resistance testing. Those two water molecules trapped within a proper gypsum crystal are absent from the unrefined material - and are critical to the fire performance of drywall.
Look at this post .... not only did I define the problem, I explained how it happened, and how to prevent becoming a victim. Posts don't get better than that! :D
Like I said Chicago Latrobe still manufactures many product out of their line up here in the USA. And they are not the only one. Your garden variety hardware store or borg may only sell imported bits and tooling but at the industrial level there is still plenty of made in USA tools and tooling.
Like I said Chicago Latrobe still manufactures many product out of their line up here in the USA.
Do you have any additional information on that? That seems to conflict with their filings with the FTC (I checked) reporting foreign manufactured content in all of their products.
Feeling sort of robbed and cheated about our collection of drill bits I decided to research further. Couldn't find anything on Google telling me my precious drill bits weren't made in the good ol USA. I called MSC Industrial this morning and asked point blank where are Chicago Latrobe Bit made. They couldn't say for sure so they called the manufacturer directly and got back to me right away and told me the manufacturer said, "made in the USA". Not quite satisfied I decided to call the manufacturer myself. Kennametal which owns Chicago Latrobe, Cleveland and Greenfield (all American twist bit manufacturers) confirmed to me over the phone that Chicago Latrobe is indeed made in USA.
Some other research along the way shows that Precision drill bits, Redline, Advantage Drills, Kodiak and SGS Tools are just a few of the other manufacturers producing "Made in USA" tooling.
If you have a link to that FTC report could you share it?
I'm not sure that I understand your point; perhaps you missed mine.
Whatever the foibles of USG may be, they're not about to let customer demand, or anything else, pressure them into making a single sheet of drywall that does not meet their standards. Indeed, I doubt they will even allow any of their product to come from a plant that is not completely under their control - no 'farming it out' there!
We saw a similar situation last year, when Ralston Purina was unscathed by the pet food scandal - since they make all their own products.
Assuming the report is correct, and USG is mentioned in the lawsuit .... I'd bet the lawyer made an error, and that the court will promptly remove them.
I may not like USG very much - that's another story - but I must admit that they are not about to compromise on their product ... expecially for safety reasons.
Didn't USG File Chapter 11 because it had knowingly exposed people to asbestos?
k
No, that was their competitor, National Gypsum. And Celotex. And Johns-Manville. Probably a few more as well.
USG was WAY ahead of the curve, removing all asbestos from their product line long before anyone else recognized asbestos as an issue. They did this, though it placed them at some competitive disadvantage.
I did not refer to this earlier, as I did not want this thread to go off on a tangent.
This thread's all over the place anyway, so:
"Since 1994, U.S. Gypsum was named in more than 250,000 asbestos-related personal injury claims, and paid more than $450 million (before insurance) to manage and resolve asbestos-related litigation. USG received more than 22,000 new claims since the beginning 2001. USG's asbestos personal injury costs (before insurance) rose from $30 million in 1997 to more than $160 million in 2000, and were expected to exceed $275 million in 2001."
(From Wikipedia)
k
"USG was WAY ahead of the curve, removing all asbestos from their product line long before anyone else recognized asbestos as an issue"
Well they are all ahead of our government here that is still blocking attempts to ban the stuff. Too many jobs and votes at stake in (you guessed it) Asbestos, Quebec.
Really? Wearing American made shoes? I doubt it since 95% of the shoes we wear are made in China. How about your tools? i don't see how you could fill a toolbox without buying Chinese made tools since even some German tools are made in China. How do you handle it when there is no USG or Sheetrock brand available and you have a house to finish? Besides, who calls their supplier and says "Send me 100 sheets of 1/2" USG drywall?"
Whoa florida, no need to pop a vane. You have to take it into context with the subject matter.
Of course I have plenty of shoes and tools made in China, and other stuff too. But when I'm buying building materials, the label "Made in China" raises my skepticism. thus my comment "Made in China is the first sign of problems." I should have said potenial for problems, but I didn't know anyone was going to nit-pick the exact meaning of a simple passing comment. To my experience, most of the building materials that come from China are crapola.
As for USG and Sheetrock brands, they are in bountiful supply in my area. If that ever changes, I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. And when I order drywall from a supplier, I ask what brand they carry. If they don't say USG or Sheetrock, I call someone else. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
But when I'm buying building materials, the label "Made in China" raises my skepticism.
That's one of the primary reasons US brand companies who are making products in the far East are careful to avoid the need to label their products as foreign made.
I think most people would be surprised at how much of their "US brand" product is made overseas. It only has to be labelled as foreign-made under particularly circumstances, which the companies can work around.
We didn't have a choice about who to call down here in Florida. We were building 1500 new homes a month in Lee County alone and drywall was not in stock or readily available. If you were lucky you could hire a drywall sub who had an "in" somewhere and could get boards. The last thing on earth anyone was worrying about was the brand. My understanding is that the drywall in question was sold by a very large European manufacturer trying to break into the American market. No one knew where it was made and no one would have cared anyway, the idea was to get houses built. In hindsight we would have been better off if the lack of drywall had stopped us from building.
I see your point. I'm lucky to have a choice in who supplies my materials, and what materials I buy. If I didn't have that choice, then I would use whatever I could get my hands on and use it, and probably end up in the same predicament.
Peace! =)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
China's got NO restrictions there's probably more chemicals in that drywall that it would make you head spin let alone the smell, also they mix stuff and not even know what the reaction is going to be !!
Folks keep drawing the analogy to Japan after WWII when I bring up the topic of imported junk from China.
They remind me how everything that came from Japan back then was junk and the butt of jokes. But they improved over the years and their manufacturing is now more often than not often second to none.
Well I don't see the same correlation. IMHO Japan was a country defeated in war and were determined to rebuild and become recognized as a world leader. If their products were defective they'd examine and go back and make the necessary changes to compete in a world market. They were and still are focused on constantly improving and refining. I don't see that with China. Their rapid growth has left little time for self reflection and I think most companies in China are looking to make a fast buck and could care less about what happens down the road, either to the junk they make or the future reputation of the country. I think most figure they'll be long gone by the time the **** hits the fan.
I agree and your last two sentences pretty well describe many, if not most US corporate operations. The masses wanted cheaper and they received exactly that at the cost of their own jobs and economy.
The best example is Mal-Wart. Most seem to recognize it but fail to resist temptation of wanting something "now", regardless of hiden costs. Jobs, safety and health, in my opinion, being foremost. There are many companies that do the same but these clowns from Arkansas have it down to a science and have set the standard.
Throw away society at it's best, brought to you by all those big white trucks.
I may get heat for stating it that way but that's the way I feel about it and have only crossed their threshhold one time in the mid 90's.
I may be a fool but I just turned down a sweet deal on tires for my wife's car. They were made in China. I had a choice for US made at over $100 over the others. The US set is now on her car. The same holds true with as many tools as I can get from US makers, garage sales, etc. I'll do without something else for a bit. I try to walk the walk best as I can. I've prety much been that way and the butt of ridicule from friends and some family but now, too late, they see why. I'm just one little guy but it all counts in my book....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Hi oldbeachbum,
I'll do without something else for a bit. I try to walk the walk best as I can. I've prety much been that way and the butt of ridicule from friends and some family but now, too late, they see why. I'm just one little guy but it all counts in my book.
My straw hat is off to you.....actually it's a Mexican straw hat made in China....dag gone it's hard to live right....but keep it up.
I run middle of the road here......if I need a high end tool for a one time...possibly two time use....I check the cost of rental and compare that to some Chinese tool....ex. I needed a hawkin' big 1/2" 120v hammer drill with great big handles.......big box store rental for a real one was $29.95 for the day.....the Chinese drill was $33.95......I bought it, I guess I'm lucky it didn't blow up and throw shrapnel but it did work flawlessly for my needs and I've used it a couple of other times over the last 7 years. Makes noises similiar to being sucked through the turbines of a 747.
Now for stuff I use regularly.....I buy American and am more than happy paying the price to get what will work accurately, quietly and always.
Pedro the Mule - Now where did I put that Chinexico fortune taco?
Ah, so (Si?)
Oops, did I just stereotype? My bad. <g>
Anyway, some of the guys/gals might take this too personally but I was just stating that when choices are available I try to keep work here, knowing that it will cost me a bit more initially, that's all.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Hi oldbeachbum,
Oops, did I just stereotype? My bad. <g>
hehehe man if I were given way to stereotype by way of eating habits, I'd be a ChiMexiAfriJapaItalRedneck.......as it is........Cherokee, Blackfoot, Irish, Scottish, Dutch, German.....and since I've been washed in the blood of the big JC.....that makes me Jewish by rebirth.......In other words I'm an American and proud of it.....even if it's not politically correct to be so any longer........
Pedro the Mule - Renamed by my dearly departed grandfather
+1 here.
economic fraud seems to be job one with china....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I saw in the news where Jackie Chan (he's Chinese) said he'd rather buy a TV made in Japan than one made in China - afraid it might blow up!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
You ever think it's done on purpose? They know that they'll get away with it with little to no repercussions and that is if it is ever found at all. Who knows what else from china has lead paint on it or is tainted with God knows what.
From the ASHI Journal on the stuff:
quote
Taking a Look at Issues With Drywall from China
by Michael D. Conley
Published March 2009
Issues with drywall and drywall mud from China have been around since the late 1990s. More recently, drywall from China is being linked to health and safety issues, with the critical focus on drywall imported and used during the time period from 2004 to 2006. This time period coincides with the height of the Florida construction boom, in tandem with a shortage of drywall manufactured in this country.
The jury still is out on whether or not Chinese drywall creates a health issue. It seems to some it does to the degree that they have to move out of their homes. To others, it’s an expensive nuisance that is affecting components in their homes.
. . . .
Until we learn more, home inspectors can look for the following:
* Drywall installed from 2004-2006. This appears to be the time period during which most of the drywall in questions was installed, but inspectors should allow leeway on both sides of those dates.
* To identify the drywall, find a place where the backside is exposed (e.g., in the garage or attic where there is no insulation).
- Look for the words “CHINA” in red ink or “KNAUF” in black ink.
- Look for C36 stamped on the back or edge tape, if available.
* Use your nose or listen to any complaints from the homeowner.
* Sample a number of electrical receptacles and look at the copper wiring as well as the A/C coil.
Currently, there are about 80 complaints pertaining to this drywall, and it appears there will be more in the future. Lawsuits are pending with homebuilders and the manufacturer. As to the final outcome, who knows? All we can do is wait and see.
END QUOTE
More info at http://www.ashireporter.org/articles/articles.aspx?id=1630
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/
Hey cool! bob actually made a non-political post on BT.
All hail the Verb!
hello SquarePeg you big sugar you.
Well, I would have emailed him instead of posting, but he has me on ignore:I do post a lot in the tavern, but I also post in these sections and have had several such posts republished in FHBToo bad rez had to politicize/personalize a working forum. Back to our regularly scheduled thread....
Edited 4/20/2009 1:17 pm ET by rjw
""but he has me on ignore:""
Bob, I have you or someone on ignore? What am I missing here? I don't think I've ever done that in this forum. Not intentionally, anyway.
In the immortal words of Vinnie Barbarino....."huh, what?"...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!