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Red Dog, this is Blue Leader (hahahahahahahaha)
Anyway, unfortunately, I feel your pain, man. My advice is for you to get into a Physical Therapy program. The chiro is only good for maintenence now and then. In the mean time, get on ice. Or, at least, alternate between hot and cold as you rest for as long as you can stand it.
GACC, sorry to tell you, but a 25 year old injury IS chronic. The pain may be manageable, but the injury is there.
I have had sacral/iliac damage for over 20 years with deterioration of L-4,5 (not onset of age). I’ve been to more than 15 chiropractors, 5 PTs, 6 neurosurgeons. Only twice have I come out of an office visit feeling significantly better than when I went in. So far, knock on wood, I have avoided the knife. Based on conversations with other patients and various doctors I figure I have a three to one chance in surgery. I hate taking any medication, but now exist on Tylenol or an O-T-C. Sometimes, ya’ gotta’ go with it.
Back injuries sometimes appear similiar because of the same symptoms or similiar onset of pain, but you do need to see an MD, not a Chiro to establish exactly what the heck happened to you. Beware of layman advice. Best wishes brother.
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After ten years of constant lower back pain, chiropractic adjustments, and occasional work-days lost when something "went out", I finally read somewhere - I think it might have been Fine Homebuilding! - that strong abdominal muscles are necessary to keep the back in line. Sure enough, within days of beginning to do stomach crunches, my back pain became about 90% less. Been doing the exercises ever since, and if I miss for a couple days, here come the pain. I still get stupid from time to time and strain my back, but for the most part I remember to lift with my legs, avoid twisting while carrying a load, etc.
Also, get Bonnie Prudden's book, "Pain Reduction", and get somebody to work on your aching body with her method. It will hurt like bloody hell but will also get those mistreated muscles acting like they're on your side again.
And do the stomach crunches religously. Please.
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RedDog,
I find that keeping my weight down is the best thing I can do for my back. I'm much more prone to injury when my weight is up. When it does go "out", the best is 800-1000mg. of ibuprophen every four hours(with food or milk) and rest. When I feel like I can get back to work (time varies), I wear one of those elastic back braces you see the guys in Home Depot wearing for the first week or two. I slowly wean myself off of it, depending on what I'm doing. I was very surprised at how well those brace things work.
Good Luck,
Jerry
*Red Dog (and others),As a long time sufferer (5.5 years), probably facing a double level fusion, I've done alot of research. For some types of disc injury, there is a new kind of therapy. It is called IDET (IntraDiscal ElectroThermal Therapy). A small catheter is placed into and around the disc, and heats up, stabilizing the disc. The company who is developing it is Oratec in California (just went public, IPO, last monday :)) Check out their website for more info (www.oratec.com).Won't work for me, but sounds promising. It is basically a 1-3 days affair, and doesn't prevent further surgeries. One note, the success is determined by the opeartor's skill- since this is new, there are not many qualified-do your homework.Good luck.Adam s
*Can I get a AMEN Brothers and Sisters.Same SI joint problem. Crunches help, as does lower weight, streching in the morning, let it rest when it hurts.I went to a surgeon two weeks ago and he said I'm NOT a candidate for surgery. He wants to give me a shot of cortisone in the joint, couple that with PT, and see what happens.I'll keep you posted!
*Red Dog, First, I feel your pain and hope you get better soon! I gotta echo what everyone else has said, e.g., crunches (not sit-ups) or anything that strengthens your abs, alternating hot and cold pads, massage, seeing a good Dr., getting a second opinion, avoiding chiros that cause you pain, lifting w/back straight and using your leg muscles, stopping what you are doing the minute you feel pain, etc.One other thing--when I hurt my back, I spent too much time in bed. Honestly, that didn't help, in the long run. Tenser (sp?) treatments helped (don't ask me what they are--I think it was electrical pulses, administered by a PT). My dad had great luck w/getting two discs fused, but I wouldn't recommend surgery if at all avoidable.One of these days, we have got to invent more tools that keep us working smarter, not harder.I wish you well, and will be checking into this thread regularly as, like most of you, every now and again I can practically move a piano w/out a prob, or twist to pick up a pin and cry out.
*Thank you everyone for your responses. I've thought for a while that physical therapy would more than likely be a good thing but never took the time to pursue it. Now might be the time. I think I've finally got it through my thick skull that I'm not indestructable and that I need to preserve my physical abilities as long as possible. Some of us come to this realization later than others.I will also look into the couple of books mentioned by kkearney & Drew. My weight is not part of the problem, 6' tall, 170lbs. and I consider myself to be in very good shape. I stretch out for a minute every morning before I get up, maybe that should be intensified. I've found with all my lesser back injuries that it feels better when I stay mobile and work through it. Just seems to loosen up as the day goes on. This time is different. I can't stand up for more than a minute and when I do, it's the Igor thing. This is day 3 and it's no better. The ibuprofen sure did help this morning, though.Thanks for listening.Red dog
*Red Dog -- although I'm just a weekend warrior, I know just how you feel with back pain. Having said that, let me recomend a book to you, "The Supple BOdy." Its a yoga/stretching book that hass in it a 20 minute routine (among others) that I now do religously every day. You clearly can't start it now while you feel crummy, but once you start feeling better its time to get into a regular stretching program. I got my copy at Barnes & Noble. No more back pain is all I can tell you. I noticed real improvement in 3 weeks and after 2 montsh I couldn't believe the difference -- helped my golf game a lot, too.Good Luck.
*Guys-Me too, L4-L5. An important thing to consider when dealing with a biomechanical instability, is that there is a major lifestyle aspect to be factored into the equation. I'm guessing that most of us got hurt in the first place because we were quite strong at that point in our lives. Some of us are strong because we sort of ended up that way, some because we worked hard for it and everything in between. So, physical therapist gives you a series of exercises that'll take maybe half an hour each morning- if you've already been using that slot for exercise, no problem, you just modify your exercises. What happens if that's when you're helping out with the kids, or doing bids, or something else important? Well then you've got to get up earlier- every single day. Going to see the physical therapist is merely the beginning, like buying the drill. Doesn't do you any good unless you supply it with a big box of bits. The bits being the daily routine of using, refining and growing in to the exercises that can help reestablish a type of resiliency and predictability about the anguished joint. Everybody's injury is different but the human frame is the same. What it comes down to is, the best way to be strong is to be strong, and that (now in our 30's, 40's) requires doing.
*I don't think this would work for everybody but I use gravity boots (hanging upside down buy boots) about once a day and it has worked wonders for me.
*red dog-see an osteopath. they can recommend treatment-surgery, chiro, therapy, exercise. If you want an mri, get one. your back,you're pain,you're liveleyhood- seems to me you're in charge.hope you get well soon
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One way or another, you are going to need to take it easy for a week or two. Swimming helps me greatly once the initial flareup subsides. There is something about the twisting and stretching without having the trauma of running, etc. which loosens and strenghthens the back. Best wishes.
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Hey Blue Leader,
I thought that unless it hurt ALL the time it was not considered chronic. I agree with you as to how our friend in pain should not listen to any advice from a layman. This is too serious and the injury is too varied from person to person. What works for me may do you damage.
Ed. Williams
*GACC: CHRONIC is when it's there off and on for a long time. ACUTE is when it's ALWAYS there, never goes away. Adrianne
*you need to get pictures taken to see wether you have a ruptured or bulging disc. Usually the rupture requires surgury and the bulged can be treated by therapy of one kind or another. the pain down your legs indicates pressure on nerves caused by this sort of misalignment. let it go too long and you could have damaged nerve tissue so don't delay. most of these guys have given good advice for muscle pulls and strains but the pains shooting down the legs is a warning.
*Thought I'd chime in. 4 yrs. ago at the ripe old age of 29, I felt like I'd been shot in the lower back while getting out of bed one morning. Never would have considered a Chiro. till that moment. Called a buddy that's a power lifter and got his Chiro.'s name. Worked wonders, and the first day after the first visit was pure hell. Went every few days and in 2 weeks was good as new. Been seeing the Chiro. ever since. I go when I feel a tightness comming on. The lower back thing sometimes moves into the shoulders and I get a pinced nerve in the neck if I don't get cracked right when I feel I should. I have another buddy that's a massage therapist, and he and the Chiro confirmed which disc was the problem by feel , that was confirmed by a Orothepedic surgen. The surgen recommended MRI to tell when to schedule surgery.Went back to the Chiro and never called the surgen again. I'll resort to surgery when nothing else works! Find a good Chiro. I've seen 4 different and only 2 do the job. The one is my primary and the other works in his office. I've found the light touch of a P.T. and some chiro's to not do much. I need my regular Chiro to work it hard, then I feel like a million bucks. There are homeopathic remedies that work good, and the exerxise tape by "Tony Little" is good for backs. He was a weight lifter that was in an accident and spent time in a wheelchair, and he made exercise routines to strengthen the back with out hurting it. Go see all the Dr.'s , realise most don't believe in Chiro, then get cracked. Jeff
*Thanks Adrianne,I guess I have a chronic back problem. Sure does sound worse than it is.Ed. Williams
*But won't I loose my beer gut? Do you have any idea how much I've spent and how long it took to develop this perfect red neck beer gut?Ed. Williams
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Hi, After 22 years in the military I have some permanent back, knee and foot problems. Most pain is partially controlled with medication like Ibuprofen (Motrin) or Methocarbomal which work for me along with a back brace that helps a lot with lifting. Correct lift techniques help too. I swim a lot along with walking, light exercise along with stretching and using my body weight as the training weight has helped a lot, so lots of abdominal work. Still, I screw it up and occasionally have to lay up sorry for a week. No operations yet but the prospect of fusing a number of vertebrae has been mentioned. Don't like to fix anything if its not really broken. Good luck.
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I am an Internal Medicine Physician with the Mayo Health System (I use to build homes and frequent this site often). I agree with much that has been said above. When I see a patient with acute or chronic pain I go through the following steps.
1. Is there a more serious underlying medical problem (serious disc disease, arthritis, malignancies, etc.)? Usually this question can be answered by a thorough history and physical and occasionally X-rays including occasionally CT Scans and MRI's (we usually do these more expensive X-rays when a patient has failed conservative therapy and we suspect that the patient will need a surgical procedure).
2. Improving the acute symptoms. This often involves pain medications, anti-inflammatory medications, occasionally muscle relaxers, rest (often with early walking), physical therapy techniques (ice, massage, ultrasound, etc.)
3. Preventing future pain. This is where I spend most of my efforts with patients. Most back pain is related to chronic overuse syndromes and prevention is the key to long term success. Of course, this involves proper lifting technique, avoiding heavy and frequent lifting when possible, occasionally back braces and other common sense changes. I am a firm believer in back strengthening exercises. I frequently send patients to physical therapists to specifically learn the proper back exercises. I often recommend more aggressive back strengthening with Nautilus type equipment. I firmly believe that a patient with strong, well developed back muscles can overcome most structural problems (including some severe disc problems). The problem with this is that most patients only want quick and simple solutions. Once the acute pain resolves they will not continue with the long term program. These patient usually develop recurrent pain.
4. Surgery. In general (each case is different), I consider surgery a last resort. My goal is almost always to keep patients out of operating rooms. On the other hand, some patients need surgery and do very well after surgery. Once again, the success rate of surgery is often dependent on their long term compliance with exercise programs and work changes.
Hope this is useful info.
Jim Roberts, MD
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I use a massotherapist for my back problems. When mine acts up I also have the Igor walk and shooting pains down the back of my legs. The problem is like all professions there are good ones and not so good ones. The chiro couldn't help, he feels the problem is a joint disfunction (tight muscles in the lumbar as well as hamstrings),stretching helps a lot.
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You should try milk and cookies instead. Mine is probably bigger than yours, and I still have a liver. hehehe
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Good info, Doc, especially the part about muscle strength as antidote to structural problems. Thanks.
*Red Dog, have you started your ab routine yet?
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Drew,
I'm not able to do much of anything yet other than stretch a little bit. I'm using crutches to keep the weight off of my left leg.
I can't stand up straight without severe pain in my thigh. It's weird that almost all the pain is right there in the front left portion of my thigh. There is virtually no pain in my back where I hurt it.
My primary care doctor thinks it's a combination of back/nerve/thigh injury. Rest, warm compresses, ibuprofen, and muscle relaxers for a week and then go back for a follow up. Chiropractor is pretty sure it's a disk problem, L-4 L-5 area, which a lot of you are familiar with. I tend to agree with the chiropractor in this case.
My wife helped me stretch out a bit last night. I wanted to find my limits of movements. She would stretch the same way I would and she found a tug in her back when stretching where I couldn't and she didn't feel much in her thigh. I don't believe it to be a thigh injury
Thanks, Dr. Roberts, for the rundown on your usual procedure. My doctor seems to be following that. We didn't talk too much about preventive maintenance but probably will on the next visit. He prescribed 800mg of ibuprofen and 10mg cyclobenzaprine 3 times a day. Boy, does that stuff make me drowzy. I slept like a rock last night.
I guess it's just rest and wait for improvement, which is very tough for me.
Thanks all for your concern and comments.
Red dog
*Red,I just had the same situation happen to me (although not as severe). The acute pain went away in 5 days and the numbness in the legs went away after 14 to 20 days. After an MRI, they found herniated discs at L4-L5 and L5-S1 and pinched nerves. I was lifting an medium sized, not too heavy box from the car trunk... it got caught, I went forward, and POP! Thats all she wrote.I agree with the doc that wrote in, back strength and proper lifting will avoid this in the future (I stretch and do back strengthening excercises every morning now). My problem was with an object that didn't weigh enough for me to worry about lifting form, and I stupidly put myself in a compromised position, and thats all it took.I also agree surgery is a last resort, and after consultation (and a second opinion) with a doc that confirms that your situation is not irrepairable. My opinion on this situation is a Chiro to put the spine in the right position, a PT to help strengthen the muscles with the spine in the right position, a daily/weekly regimen of excercise, and 24/7 consciousness about how you use your back. The reason I stress strengthening your back with the spine in the right position is that if you have a pinched nerve, and rehab your back with it that way, the muscles will (naturally) keep that nerve pinched.Hope you feel better soon
*I would like to really endorse Jim Roberts' post. Nearly 20 years ago I had some really bad back problems. Much like you have Red Dog. I went to several docs and others. The upshot was that most of them wanted to operate. Fortunately, I met an orthopedic surgeon whose primary practice was army paratroops and the like.His advise was to not let anyone do back surgery unless I had lost complete mobility in my back. No surgery until I just froze in position and could not move.Instead he put me on a program of muscle relaxers(we had to experiment a bit to get one I tolerated), anti-inflamatories, and strength training. Over the last 20 years I can say the only times I have problems are if I ignore the strength training and exercise. The spine problem is still there but the muscles are developed to the point the spine is kept in postion and it does not hurt at all.By the way at the same time I took up exercises to keep all my joint muscles, tendons and ligaments strong and limber. So, I have very few knee, elbow or ankle problems either. There is the added benefit that the weight and strength training keeps the general skeleton in shape too. Also, he taught me that daily work exercise isn't enough. It isn't the right kind and duration for building the body so it really just tears down the body.So, make the life style changes now and you will most likely escape surgery and will for sure enjoy a much happier and pain free later life.
*Red dog. When mine flares up, IB, or aspirin (anti-inflammatories) are the key. Occasionally a joint does the trick. The key is to break the pain cycle and reduce inflamation.I'm always surprised at how much better I feel with a little massage, in my neck and shoulders (compliments of the MRS) too. This immediately releases tension and allows me to crack my lower back. Weird.I routinely give myself "adjustments". The quack (chiro) tells me that I can't do that, but I fooled him wrong. I haven't been there in ten years.To the quack skeptics. Many years ago, I was in getting teatmtent for my lower back. The previous day, I had aquired a severe case of whiplash in a parking lot fender bender. The quack wanted to x-ray, but I begged off. Reluctantly he jammed his thumb into my neck and "adjusted" my neck vertabraes. Instantly the stiffness was gone, and the whiplash cured. I'm a believer.But there seem to be a lot of snake oil salesmen in the group. If you don't trust your quack, try another. Many try to keep you coming back, needlessly.Another story. A fat old drunk carpenter that worked for me had a chronic (acute?) shoulder problem. The doctors couldn't do anything for him and recommeded surgery. One day, he was framing an attic access and fell off-balance from the ladder. He caught himself with his elbows as he fell through and jerked his shoulder with a trmendous jolt (remember, he was fat)! His chronic shoulder problem was instantly fixed! Pain-free.He still remained a drunk, however.Another story. A nurse friend injured her back lifting patients. She ignored the pain shooting down her leg. After surgery, she had leg drop due to nerve damage. Leg drop is a condition that drops her leg, after she raises her knee to a certain height.Don't ignore leg pain!Oh yes, I immediately ice my back when I pinch the nerves. That, pot and IB cut down my recovery by many weeks!blue
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Red Dog
Sorry to hear you're still way hurting. Hope you get some relief soon.
Since your wife seems willing to help, do get "Pain Relief", by Bonnie Prudden and ask the MRS to assist in your healing process. You will find that groups of muscles will be effected simultaneously, which may in part explain your thigh/back combination. Every overtight muscle creates an imbalance, which is countered by other muscles, ad infinitum, making it tough to figure where it all began. So work on literally all your muscles with Prudden's method. Takes time, but it is quite fascinating.
The thigh, hip, and lower back muscles definitely interact.
Have faith. Many of us out here truly feel your pain. Keep us posted.
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As I'm sure most of you guys know, most of us in this business have to deal with the occasional back problems. Last Thursday, I did something I shouldn't have been doing and felt something snap in my lower back. Now I can't stand up straight and when I do stand up, the pain/numbness/spasms start down my butt and thigh to my knee. It's not shooting pain in the lower back like it has been up until now, with previous injuries.
I regularly, for the last 2 years, have been going to a Network Chiropractor for adjustments. While she sometimes does structural adjustments, most of what she does is on an energy level. While this initially sounded hokey to me, I continued going because I really wanted to find something to lessen the frequency of these injuries and to speed up the recovery process. To my surprise, it did exactly that. I'm now a believer, just from opening my mind up to something different than I had ever done before and slipping out of my comfort zone.
That said, I now find myself with what I consider a more serious back injury than I've had before. I've talked to a few people that had have the same problem, 2 that have had surgery and 1 that was flat on her back for 3 weeks until it got better. All 3 are comfortable with the decisions they made. I have made a Dr's appointment for Monday morning, hoping for an MRI appointment and not the advice of lay off the back for a while and here is some pain medication.
While I'm not looking for medical advice from you guys, I would appreciate your feedback about this and the relating of your own experiences.
Thanks for the time.
Red dog
*I've got a compression between two of my vertibre which causes the disk to buldge and press on the surrounding nerves. It doesn't act up all the time, but when it does I'm walking bent over if I walk at all. It takes about a week for the swelling to go down and I can get back to normal. I've had this injury for over 25 years now. My Dr. told me not to go for surgury unless it got to the point that I just couldn't stand it anymore. It's not chronic, but like I said only affects me a couple of times a year if I do something stupid. I once went to a chiropracter once for this and it was the worse mistake of my life. I have never hurt so bad as I did after I left his office. This is not something a back quack can handle. I don't believe in what they do anyway, but I was desperate. Never again.I know what you're going through Red Dog, and man do I feel sorry for you. That pain down your leg is your siatic (sp?) nerve. Sounds like you got what I got. All I do is get in a comfortable position, take asprin, try to stay off my feet if I can and wait it out. The swelling will go down, and the pressure on the nerve will subside. At least it does for me. I don't take pain medications. They don't work for me. Just asprins and beer. I like the beer part. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but I like the taste of beer and it gives me a good reason to have a few more than ususal.Good Luck with the MRI. I hope it will show you what you got.Ed. Williams
*Thanks Ed, I appreciate you responding. From what I understand, it's a pretty common injury, but doesn't seem too common when it happens to you. I usually don't miss any work with my other less severe back things, but I can tell there is no way I'll be able to work in the beginning of next week. You've had this for 25 years. How often do you reinjure it that it takes that week to recover? I would also shy away from surgery as I've never gone under the knife yet in my 43 years, and would rather not if there is something else that would work, like working smarter and being even more careful.Gotta go get another beer now.Red dog
*Red Dog, I've lived with a back problem for over 30 years. Mine came on because of the constant tension of sitting at a desk and answering to bank officers.I had the surgery - one disk removed. Then I met a man who had that same surgery and then another and then another. I decided that once was enough for me. I learned to live with "my problem"Rest and gentle exercise will put you back on your feet in time. If the pain is too great try this trick:Get a heating pad as hot as you can stand itPut a damp towel over that pad.Dampen another small towel with rubbing alcohol.Immediately lay down on that with the damp cloths under your lower back where the muscle pain is.You will initially get a shot of "cold as ice" from the evaporating alchohol. It will shock your muscles and make them move.Then the alcohol will warm up and your muscles will totally relax. You should then feel the pain disappear. Enjoy that moment and really relax and feel good.But you can't stay on the alcohol too long - it will turn your skin raw.So, when you start to feel uncomfortable, you'll have to slip the alcohol pad out and just lay on the heating pad.You can try this at least 2 - 3 times a day for a couple days. and then, hopefully, you should be able to start to get out of bed.Hope this helps - good luck to you.
*Red Dog,About two or three times a year. And it takes about a week to get back to normal. I don't "work" like I used to because I own the company now and spend most of my time in the truck or doing paperwork. But it doesn't take much. One day I can help to load and unload table saws and plywood, and the next day I can bend over to pick up a nail and WHAM. When it happens I know it. I thought that next time I might try accupuncture. Who knows? But no knives please.Ed. Williams
*Red Dog, this is Blue Leader (hahahahahahahaha)Anyway, unfortunately, I feel your pain, man. My advice is for you to get into a Physical Therapy program. The chiro is only good for maintenence now and then. In the mean time, get on ice. Or, at least, alternate between hot and cold as you rest for as long as you can stand it.GACC, sorry to tell you, but a 25 year old injury IS chronic. The pain may be manageable, but the injury is there.I have had sacral/iliac damage for over 20 years with deterioration of L-4,5 (not onset of age). I've been to more than 15 chiropractors, 5 PTs, 6 neurosurgeons. Only twice have I come out of an office visit feeling significantly better than when I went in. So far, knock on wood, I have avoided the knife. Based on conversations with other patients and various doctors I figure I have a three to one chance in surgery. I hate taking any medication, but now exist on Tylenol or an O-T-C. Sometimes, ya' gotta' go with it.Back injuries sometimes appear similiar because of the same symptoms or similiar onset of pain, but you do need to see an MD, not a Chiro to establish exactly what the heck happened to you. Beware of layman advice. Best wishes brother.
*Guys,I have lived with this for 20 years also. I went to docters and crackers but did not get any relief until I got a book called TREAT YOUR BACK. The results were miraculous. The main exercise is like doing a pushup but you keep your pelvis on the floor. Get the book you won't regret it!KK
*You have my sympathy, I have back problems, mostly brought on by stupidity.I make furniture and I do restorations, try not to lift anything heavy, try to wait for help and nothing will get accomplished. My wife is a DO. (admitted as fellow to the Am. College of Physicians this week)I get very little sympathy; our best friend is a PHD physical therapist. I get tuned up regularly; I know the exercises, but most importantly, now I know the warning signals. No matter what I'm doing or how behind I am, when I feel that little twinge, I change tasks. In the long term,there is nothing you can do that is more valuable for your well being than appropriate exercise. But a professional needs to direct you on that.About 15 years ago I did a series of visits with a chiropractor: he advised that as long as I had an extra 10lbs at my waist I would be at risk for back pain. He's right:At 230, 10 doesn't sound like much but it settles at a critical point(Honey do you think my gut is too big?).Anti-inflammitories (naprosyn, even aspirin), heating pads and rest will bring you back. When I'm out of sorts I walk with a cane; I find the mobility helps loosen me up. But you must go see a Doctor(MD or DO) to make sure there's nothing else going on (malignancies sometimes manifest as back pain).When I'm hurting and trying to walk I always remember Marty Feldman as "Igor"(not egor) in Young Frankenstein: "walk this way" well thats me. If you've never seen it, go rent it. You'll need the laughs.
*I talked to many people before I had back surgery 11 years ago. I was in bigtime denial afterwards, sayin' I could go back to work and everything. There are two things I can say for sure - you'll know when it's time for surgery, you won't really have a choice. The other thing is, they get you up and walking the next day, but I felt as if they had cut me in half, litterally. I had absolutely no confidence that I could remain erect, it's that major a deal.I have learned to live with my new body and limitations, but don't kid yourself, it will drastically change you.
*Hey Red Dog -- I also have a L4/5 injury with sciatic nerve impingement. (We seem to have quite a club here!) The best treatment for me seems to be a combination of treatments. The exercises prescribed by the physical therapist have probably helped the most, but it seems to work best if my chiropractor has done his work also (he's a 'straight' chiropractor, only manipulates the spine). I also use a pneumatic lumbar traction device to relieve the pinching. And I've got a "Ancun Oxygen exerciser" from the health food store -- don't know about the miraculous effects claimed for the device, but it does act as a gentle motion/massager and gets the muscles to relax nicely.It moves your feet back and forth, and rocks your whole body. The motion is a bit like a fish swimming. All in all, I figure the key is to get the muscles relaxed (thermal treatment, foot wiggler, massage), so I'm not putting stress on the spine; get things straight and relieve pressure on the disc (chiropractor, traction); and strengthen the surrounding muscles and get blood moving through the connective tissue (PT exercises) so that as much healing can occur as possible, and the muscles will autosplint what won't heal. I would avoid any sort of surgery except as a last resort. My little sister is a doctor, and when I was considering surgery for a ruptured lateral miniscus in my knee she brought out all sorts of studies comparing 1.) surgery to 2.) surgery with physical therapy to 3.) physical therapy alone. Turns out that PT alone and PT with surgery had almost identical success rates, and they were well ahead of surgery alone. That was for a knee problem, not a back problem, but I've been applying the same principles to this back injury and it seems to be working.Hope this helps. If nothing else, we can find out how many of us have this injury...-Claire