Hi All,
Just got a call from a client. A contractor I work for sorta put this job in my hands to see what it’s like. What I did was install a set of French Doors. There was some slight problem in that the adjustments took a little while and the job is being performed under the eye of the home owner. Took about an hour and a half to dial it in I had to shim one side of the door about 1/4 inch to get it level. I put the shims right under the jamb and several places with tons of vulcam to keep it in place. I have the horizontal reveal a perfect dime and the top lines up less than 1/16″ off perfectly matching.
Anyway the owner was at HD where they purchased the door and was told I’m having trouble because I should have floated the floor level. She is now demanding I remove the door and do so. I haven’t been there since yesterday and left with the stucco man just starting so…..
How do I deal with this dilema? I’m trying to keep the owner happy but obviously don’t want to do what unnessasary. If I have to I’ll eat the stucco work and reset the door but want all your opinions.
Thanks,
N
PS
I had to knock off early yesterday and it’s not complete. The doors will line up perfectly when I’m done.
N
Edited 5/31/2003 11:15:41 PM ET by notrix
Replies
notrix... i don't understand some of your terminology..
what kind of a floor are you installing it on ? is it on the sub-floor ?
and what is vulcam ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think the "Vulcam" is Vulcem polyurethane sealant....never seen it used in setting a door.
I'm a little confused, also.
Will the door look and operate fine? That is what you were contracted to do. Has the floor been finished yet?
Anyway, tell her that you would be happy to pull the door and reinstall it after she has had a flooring contractor repair the floor.
Good luck with a client who will believe a big box clerk over a professional that has seen the jobsite.
SamT
Hi,
Vulcum-Vulkam-Vulcem (probably all spelled wrong <G>) is a type of sealant/caulk, this is just fill the void. I've adequatly waterproofed with lots of paper and metal flashing before setting the door. There are probably a series of 5 shims over the 6' opening to bring it level. Towards the low end it's less than 1/32" out so not shim short of paper will be any use.The threshold is solid as a rock as is. The threshold it's self is pretty ridgid extruded aluminum. The sub floor is 5/8' ply sheathing over 2x8 joists. There will be tile brought right up to the finished threshold. The tile will be set on 1/2" Densheild which is in place. The entire house has had some trouble shfting due to water damage and other environmental issues. The floor will most likely be floated to bring to level then the tile set. I have plenty of room.
I'm also not in grudge mode. I'm perfectly willing to fix it if indeed I've made a serious error. I'm hoping you all will advise me on the course of action to take.
Thanks,
N
I still can't figure out what this ladies major malfunction is. You are the door man and you did a professional job using proper trade craft given the existing field conditions. If the doors and hardware look good and work good your job other than a small amount of explanation to homowner is done.
You did make an error when you walked away from the door leaving it out of adjustment. The homeowners going off on a tangent is the result of this. There is a saying that goes like this: A door is never f##ked up unless you walk away from it f##ked up. Many a night I've had to stay late and get a door to swing right, or hardware to work right. Never! Never! Never! let a homeowner or architect catch a door not working or looking right. It can and in this case has brought down a whirlwind of duky.
You need to please tell us EXACTLY what this ladies compaint is and what is she basing this on. What is your contract with this so called builder? Sounds to me like he got tired of putting up with her and by bringing you into the loop he just "sicked" her on you. It must feel nice having your face shoved into the mangle.
Whatever you do keep trying not to burn your bridges. Discretion is the better part of valor. But don't go paying for the other trades work, or tearing out the doors. Get back to us here @ B.T. I read these postings and by reading the comments on them it's obvious there is a lot of experienced pros with an incredible knowledge base willing to share info also reading and commenting. Be a little more specific with exactly what the lady is compaining about and I'm sure the pros will step in with sage advise.
P.S. Where is the builder in all of this??? You must really want to tell person at Home Depot to shut his piehole but it just aint worth it. Don't go that direction. Keep it positive, keep your head up, learn from it, get up dust yourself off, and head on down the road to the next one.
Good Luck! Cork in Dallas
Hi,
Actually there is no animosity. The conversation has been over the phone and she can wait till I'm free next week to come over and do whatever. It will be easier to discuss face to face and have the door to illustrate the problem.
Your right; NEVER leave it undone! That was my biggest mistake. I'm handling the doors on my own but the contractor needed to get some other work in. I had a previous post "Door To Nowhere" which explained that this door open to a 3 foot drop. We have to bolt it shut each night and leave it so with a signed waiver at jobs end. The reason it opens to nowhere is we had a verbal agreement to make a small deck and stairs and the owner pulled out AFTER the door was up.
Anyway we still have to texture the walls before the painter comes so we can make arrangements for the bolts. The jambs are perfectly plumb and level and any adjustments can be accomplished with the hinges or merely planing 1/32' off the top at worst.
Her "complaint" is based on the "helpful" HD salesman who came up with the idea I did it wrong. So although the door is sitting just fine, HD informs her it was wrong and HAS to be reset with a floated sill.
I can't believe I'm actually calm about all this<G> It's just kinda funny to me at this point. I'll let you know later this week how it all comes out.
N
When ever the client manages to insert "but the guy at Home Depot" into the conversation it's time to back up or at least put the brakes on.
Wariness and sycnicalism on full red alert.
Problems on the horizon and the gloom of doom is at hand.
HD clerk knows where to find floor levelor on the shelf and how much it costs but NOTHING WHATSOEVER about how to install a door. He's probably a loser who couldn't make it on the job sites so he promoted himself to giving away free advice.
Tell her I said so.
not that that will do you any good....
Excellence is its own reward!
I would say "When installing a door the site conditions often vary and one must make a choice as to the best method to use. The HD suggested method would work in many places. However for your house and this opening the way I installed the door will give the longest life to the work and materials." ..................good luck!
The HD info really isn't that good but I'd be more suspect of why he offered it in the first place. I doubt the orange smocked oracle of installation advise spewed this little tidbit without the customer explaining their version of a witnessed install they didn't understand. This type of customer burns my butt in that they'll ask everyone after the fact what they think then beat you up with whatever they can use.
Your install is fine, get your money quick!
It's also possible he's having some fun with the HO at your expense.
If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Nigel,
I hope you won't mind if you hear me saying that to a customer some day.
I've never heard it said better.
DRC
notrix, I'am assuming you put all those shims under the threshold, with a lot of caulk/glue, and also shims along the jambs. Reads to me like you got it just right, ie the reveals, also I'am guessing the "action" is also, just fine. I would leave door just like you hung it. Now the part that gets tricky, is the client/ builder relationship, which equals communication, on this, I wish you the best of luck, and leave the Door alone, sound to me it turned out nice. Pause, breath, then I open my mouth, Jim J
I'd tell her if she wants advice from HD then have them install the door for her and call you when they F it up
Just ask her if the guys at HD know so much, why are they earning $7.50 an hour and not more actually doing the work.
Or explain by using shims you did "float" the floor level. tell her leveling compound will break down over time, crack and turn to dust long before the shims you used fail
This adds nothing to your problem but I hate when people get advice from HD and think it is the word of God or something.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Exactly what CAG said!!!
Be not orange
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
notrix.... sounds like you installed it exactly right.. and your sequence was the correct one.. your tile man ( the tile man) can do a mud job to level the subfloor for his tile and you've given him a level sill to lay to..
the HD clerk is wrong... short of releveling the subfloor and joists you have a solid deck... floating a floor with thinset or floor leveling compound is not a good long term solution for under the sill..
your flashing is correct ... the door is plumb and square.. the reveals are great, and the action and lock works fine...
you can install my doors anytime..
now , you have to convey to the owner ( with help from yur contractor friend ) that you guys are right... and the HD clerk is suggesting a quick and dirty fix...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There may be a lesson in this about installing stuff the homeowner bought. I'll take a wild guess here that you are getting a fixed price for the installation and that since the HO bought the door at HD, you aren't getting any mark-up on the door, but you get all the headaches and "helpful advice" from the clerk. If you had been the customer, she wouldn't be talking to them.
Plumbers I work with always supply everything, or insist on a higher price if the HO supplys a fixture. I think of it as an insurance premium that covers the cost of these problems when they arise. I am trying to learn from them. If you broke the door, who would get to pay for that? Do we really get paid enough for this responsibility?
It's still not clear to me exactly what her complaint is. Can she see a problem with 1/32 inch? If the hardware works smoothly and the weatherstip is tight all around, I don't understand the problem. I wouldn't do any more work for her until the check on this door clears.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
It sounds like you did it right. If I were you I would get out the manufacturer's install instructions, review them myself If you did it acording to them and it sound it, I would then sit down with the Home owner and calmly review with her the manufacturer,s instructions point out on the door how what you did is what the manufacturer says to do.
Then tell her that any deviation from the Manufactures instruction will void the warrenty. Gets them every time.
The woman sounds like my neighbor. She's a control freak. She always is asking me to second guess whoever she hires. I won't and I won't work for her either.
Get your job done and paid then run away. I can't because I live there.
As a side note. I was at HD with my dad and the salesman was telling him how to install a tile floor. He got everything wrong. When I walked up and politely questioned about some of his information. He got defensive, then said it wasn't his department and walked off. I had a talk with the store manager.
It sounds if you handled yourself well.
Good luck,
Len