coastal guys help with porch posts
Hi all:
I’m repairing a porch for a client by replacing rotted decking and railing, and replacing rotted posts. The client wants the “colonial” style posts with square top and bottom and a turned section in the middle. Fine. So, they pick out a synthetic model post with a structural metal tube in the middle (made by HB&G) and I’ll finish off with Timbertech railings and the new Azek T&G decking.
Here’s the problem that I hope my coastal-located friends can help me with.
The building department in this town (nowhere near high-wind areas) wants protection against uplift. Usually in the two counties in NJ where I work all we do is secure the top and bottom of the posts from moving laterally. Now I’m faced with providing uplift protection. The HB&G provided clips won’t do this. The building guy has already said he doesn’t want to see any L style brackets. Nobody in the lumberyards around me has any advice or products to offer.
If I really have to I’ll use wood posts instead of composite, but how to provide uplift protection in a finished look? These are not columns, but posts, so wrapping the tops and bottoms to cover a Simpson connector would look stupid. All I can think of is to try to convince the client to go with a complete wrapped column look instead and secure 4×4 posts inside the wrap.
Do any of you coastal folks have a solution? A composite post would be ideal, but I can’t find a manufacturer who offers uplift tie-downs. What do you guys in the high wind areas use?
John Painter
Replies
I'm just shooting from the hip here, but how big a diameter is the tubing in the center of the posts? Could you fit it down over some sort of peg or steel stud (the stud fastened to the deck with nuts and washers through deck or with a flange that would be covered by the bottom of the post) and then use something like a set screw through the post into the tubing?
D:
Well, the building guy isn't going to accept any homemade fixes, that's for sure. Another fellow suggested some kind of cable arrangement through the center of the tube. Basically, I need to either provide documentation from a manufacterer who makes a composite post with an uplift-capable clip of some kind, or I need to use conventional lumber with a simpson type connector (also with documentation) that can be hidden.
I was hoping that folks doing work in coastal areas might already know of a manufacturer or other industry-accepted practice so I don't need to reinvent the wheel here. This building official is out of his mind. I did three other porches in three other towns last year and this was never an issue.
J.
Is this what you are talking about:
http://www.hbgcolumns.com/ppdimensions.pdfAnd why won't the supplied brackets work?
http://www.hbgcolumns.com/ppinstall.pdfAlso ask the building inspector to show you where in the codes this is required.And don't worry about the wheel I took care of that. ;-)
R:
Yep, those (were) the ones. If look at the install drawings, the supplied clips won't stop uplift, but only keep lateral movement from occuring.
I'm not going to argue with this building official-- I've already had too much experience with him to know better.
I've been looking around the net for answers, and a there are a few references to uplift. However, most of them say to "contact the manufacturer or distributor" for information on uplift strategies. I've also seen solutions for new construction, but I'm in a retrofit situation here and I really don't want to reframe the whole freaking porch. Uurhg!
J.
I still think I would respectfully ask where as you want to know for future reference.
No answer for you
F:
I'll probably slide in that question in the middle of a conversation, but I still need to go in there with drawings or documentation or he won't give me the time of day. Other inspectors are happy to talk to me and frequently offer advice if they have it. This guy will just tell me that he isn't there to be my engineer and that he can't offer advice, only approve or disapprove of what I propose. He's a real charmer.
J.
all thread rod right down the middle, attached to hold down brakets at both ends.
i know simpson makes the brackets, i don't remember the name or model number any more than hold downs, but they are very stout brackets with several holes to nail through (or screw) and a perpendicular foot with about a 3/4" hole for the all thread (or bolt)
I agree a bolt down the center tied into a concrete foundation under the porch
S:
Huh. Eight foot threaded rod? How does one attach the threaded rod and get the post in at the same time? I'll have to look through my Simpson catalog again. I have the 2007 version, so it should be in there, right?
J.
John,
Simpson has some " hollow column uplift connectors". HD10A, ET22 are a couple.
We split the columns with a bandsaw to fit around post. Little glue, little paint. Can't tell.
KK
Just to close the loop on this thread so the next guy doesn't have to suffer...
I ended up finding two manufacturers who make vinyl (not my favorite but thems the breaks) posts and who offer documentation to certify that their post bases resist uplift. My building guy accepted it after a few minutes of realizing he had nothing more to say about it.
The two manufacturers are Certainteed and RDI. Simpson also makes a hollow column uplift kit (STRR1/2) but it wasn't going to work easily in my retrofit application.
More info can be found here:
http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonlyres/C15D053D-276E-4721-803E-639AF842E90E/0/207.pdf
http://www.asibp.com/images/fence/rdi/NovaLineInstallInstruct.pdf
John