Combine work/personal vehicle: thoughts
Here’s my situation:
I drive a company vehicle: a ’97 Ford F-150. The company’s pretty much given up on maintaining it, because it’s seen some hard use during its life. The mantra is “just through winter.” Ha ha, well, it’s already left me stranded at the side of the road twice.
For work, the F-150 is a little problematic. I work for a builder, so I’m constantly needing a wide variety of tools, ladders, etc. Storing the stuff I need on a daily (and unexpected) basis is a constant frustration.
The clutch is worn out pretty well, so I’m not allowed to pull the company dump trailer. Again: constant frustration for everyone.
At home, I don’t have enough parking. We have an Aerostar and a Corolla, and the F-150 gets parked on the street. Not convenient. I’m tired of the Aerostar and want a more useful vehicle for personal use (I don’t mean moonlighting). And no, they really don’t want me using the F-150 away from work, at all, and I respect that.
So I’ve got a brainwave, and I’m kicking it out here to get some feedback. I think I might try to make a deal whereby I buy myself a cargo van, and get the company to compensate me for mileage. It seems everyone wins:
– Company doesn’t have to incur high cost for a new vehicle
– I get a vehicle that can actually carry/pull something worthwhile for work on my own place
– Company has the convenience of me pulling the trailer and being more useful; I’d never have to be without anything
– I don’t have to fight with ice and snow covering everything in the bed
– Company doesn’t have to worry about company items getting stolen from the completely unsecured pickup parked on the street
I’d be amenable to having the company logo on the van, as long as it was something that could, in theory, be removed if necessary.
Maybe some of you have experience with this sort of arrangement.
Replies
To keep this thread going, I will share my situation.
I changed companies about 6 months ago. At my last job I had a truck and gas card.
At my new job I bought a Ranger and they put a rack on it. I get a 300 dollar a month vehicle allowance that is taxed as regular income. I also submit my gas receipts and get reimbursed weekly.
I posted here when I was making the change of jobs and asked advice, getting a mix of opinions. So far I am happy with the new situation.
It is obvious from some of your posts you really enjoy your new job, I hope something can be worked out.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
magnetic signs can easily be removed
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I'm my own co., but my work vehicle is also my personal ride. Therefore I opted OUT of the van thing. Can't stand them for personal trans. See if Quad cabs will get the job done for you. I have a Dodge Dakota, carries all of what I need for 90% of my jobs and looks good doing it. I have a small trailer for ladders and longer lumber when needed.
My extended Chevy 3500 has done double duty since I started this business. I dont mind driving the van all the time but it does drink the gas down.
Initally, it worked great. I could put in the first row if seats, haul the kids and a sheet of plywood. Now, its a debris field inside. We loaded out of two jobs this week. I cant find a thing.
I have to imagine the extra million pounds of tools doesnt help mileage either.
I really would like to have something else to drive but its not is the budget right now.
Sugar momma does have a minivan though, so i'm not responsible for hauling everybody all the time. That helps.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Box van is my preference. BIG secure space with head room. Ladders go inside too. Cab is small and quiet, quick to heat up or cool off.
Toyota Tacoma pickup, dually with a 10' box. Cheap to operate and reliable. But not good for towing a heavy load.
Edited 11/9/2008 7:44 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
First, consult your insurance agent. You can have some serious problems using a personal vehicle (non-commercial) insured as a personal vehicle in a commercial application.
The moment you take company property and transport it in your vehicle during normal work hours, you likely need a commercial insurance policy. The insurance company has the legal right to refuse coverage to an impropely insured incident, should that happen.
Putting a company logo on there is probably a definite no-no without commercial insurance.
Next, consult your tax person.
Mileage isn't good enough because you are covering the initial cost, insurance, maintenance, registration and depreciation of that vehicle that the company will use... but you may be ok with taking that for the team.
A company vehicle is worth around $10,000 annually to the person that gets one, and if you provide a company vehicle, that is what you are losing... plus the hours the employer gains in productivity.
If you work out a lease arrangement, even if the employer 1099's you, that will entitle you to depreciate the truck... if you get a truck over 7700# GVWR, that can open the door to accelerated depreciation. You should still get a gas allowance or card on top of that, and then you can also claim mileage on your taxes. There are pluses and minuses here, so talk to your tax person.
You should shoot for 1/2 of the fixed monthly expenses of your vehicle (payment, insurance and registration). The gas allowance and mileage are in addition to, not instead of. Maintenance comes out of the mileage reimbursement, so if the van costs $.40 to drive per mile in gas alone and you get $.47 per mile that won't work out so well.
The company costs for the van are still 1/2 of what they would pay if they bought the vehicle and issued it to you. Maintenance, insurance and fuel costs are on top of that, so it is still a deal for them.
The company should provide a commercial insurance rider, or get your own (if possible), or deal with the consequences should the need arise.
In some States, going over 7700# GVWR opens other doors to special license plates and safety inspections, so be aware of that. Once you put a logo on a truck, cops look for improperly registered/plated trucks. Fines are big- especially the overweight ones.
I have found it easier to leave my truck at home, and let them deal with the transport issues. If I am left on the side of the road, I will turn in those hours.
In my experience, employers will not pay fairly for the use of my truck, and it is best not to bring it up. From the employee viewpoint, it is much worse for the employer to know that you have a truck and won't let them use it for free, than to not own a truck.
It is a slippery slope to embark on.
Your employer is probably hoping you will cave to the frustration issue. Just be aware of the value of what you are giving them if you cave.
- Company has the convenience of me pulling the trailer and being more useful; I'd never have to be without anything
- I don't have to fight with ice and snow covering everything in the bed
- Company doesn't have to worry about company items getting stolen from the completely unsecured pickup parked on the street
I would try to use some of the items above, and document some lost time in a diplomatic suggestion that the employer provides a suitable vehicle (or fix what you have) before offering your own vehicle.
I would certainly establish who will pay for those items in the unsecured pickup bed in the street. I personally know people that have had employers "strongly suggest" (ie: you are fired if you don't) that the claims be made on the employee homeowner policy.
Edited 11/9/2008 8:57 am ET by danski0224
I don't see how a combine could EVER be both my work and personal vehicle.
They're just too darn wide.
Maybe BossHog could deal with it
Forrest
I was going to post that myself.Plus they are pretty slow for me.
Be very careful about using a personal vehicle for work. Around here the MTO is getting very picky about having proper documentation, licensing and insurance. My personal vehicle is also my company vehicle. A few weeks ago I was pulled over on a Saturday while pulling my dump trailer, the officer tried to ding me for not having a pre trip inspection, even though it wasnt required. Dont forget the additional expenses your employer should be responsible for-yellow stickers etc. Before you consider this any further price out commercial insurance, it isnt cheap.
I see a lot of thoughtful responses. And they all have good points. I think on paper it is workable and a win for all involved, but for your sake and the company's, if you have an insurance and accountant type(s) to consult first about the specifics, I would. The issue with mixing things from the insurance perspective is dead on.
I was a bit surprised once when I went in for repair. I had bought the truck under the biz, I had insured it under the biz, but for whatever reason, the aftermarket warranty was in my name. But they had covered a handful of things over the years. One item was pretty substantial, so they sent someone to look at it first. He saw the DOT tags on the side and that was that. They cut me a check for the remaining portion of the warranty and walked. (I still came out way ahead, thankfully)
There are guidelines for compensation. The typical gov't mileage rates are one, though I think if you're operating a truck for construction they do not give enough since they are based largely on cars just going down the road, not a work vehicle.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
A lot of good responses, but will they do you much good, I doubt it. It seems most people haven't picked up on the fact that you are in Cananda. Now having said that, I would talk with the boss, to get his feedback. As you have read, there are good points and bad points for suppling a vehicle. I have a feeling, your tax laws and operating laws are different than ours.
Some of the principles are the same, though... USA or Canada... or wherever.
There are a lot of people here in the USA that do not get many of the fine points regarding the tremendous increase in personal liability exposure the employee gets when using a personal vehicle for the company... and that extends into workers compensation issues if you get hurt in your vehicle doing company business.
Finding out when the insurance company refuses a claim or workers comp denies your claim when you need it is the wrong time to find out. Odds are, the employer *will NOT* help you out.
We won't even mention the jagoff bosses that intimidate the employee into subsidizing the business expenses through making the employee provide transportation and tools without proper compensation.
Based upon my personal experience, there is no way I will ever again discuss providing a truck/van for compensation with an employer. It doesn't work- at least not for me.
If I have to "buy my job" through the provision of a truck or tools, I will do so only as long as it takes to get somewhere else. It is cheaper to take the layoff than to subsidize the employer.
Edited 11/9/2008 11:19 am ET by danski0224
The only tools I provide are my personal hand tools. that being said, with my former boss, I had a deal that if my tools broke he replaced. I have never been in a situation to have to provide a vehicle. I can see how that couls work out badly though!
I have never been forced into providing a truck, but those that drive trucks sometimes work longer or sooner. Employers do ask what kind of vehicle I own.
Given the cost of gas to feed a truck, it is a wash for me... same net amount after subtracting gas compared to any reasonable additional time off. I just can't afford it anymore.
Sounds like you have (had) a good boss if he is replacing hand tools.
Hmm. Yeah. Even though our laws probably aren't quite the same, I doubt they are much different. Looks like I'd probably be best served by trying to unload my Aerostar and buying myself a pickup, and let my boss worry about vehicle he'll provide me. As for parking, well. . . I haven't got a single hint from my boss that I should do this. It was my own brainchild. A big motivation was for me to make the switch to a van, which would suit my work needs better than a pickup. However, my next vehicle will be the company's 2001 F-150, when the '97 kicks the bucket.Thanks for all the responses!
Why not buy yourself the cargo van you want?
You can get a basic cargo van for a price close to the average pickup truck. One or two year old models are much cheaper if that's your taste.
If you buy new, and have a business, there are bin/rack incentives offered by GM and Ford- at least in the USA.
If you don't like the truck you have from your employer, will the truck be any different if you buy one for yourself for your own use?
Unless you need 4WD, a pickup with a cap looks a lot like a van......
$.02
"pick-up with a cap looks like a van"
maybe looks like one, but doesnt function like one
I used to use extended length vans but switched to pick-up with a cap because I needed 4 wheel drive for the sandy jobsites I am often on. couldnt find an all wheel drive full size van for anywhere near the price I paid for a nice pickup.
Miss the van though, more room, easier access and I really hate climbing up on the tailgate on my knees to reach stuff. (I could walk right into the van, although bent over)
The main thing with the van is that it would keep my tools free of snow and ice, and thieves.But all my tools will be in whatever vehicle I use for work. I just need something that can carry full sheets of stuff, trash to the dump, and pull a dump trailer. So pickup is a good option. It doesn't have to be pretty or comfortable or good in any way; just has to work. For driving around we use the Corolla.
we get $300 a month for note $100 for insurance and $0.40 a mile gas. We have to have 1 million insurance, truck cannot be over two years old and when it gets four years or 100,000 mile must be replace.Most drive 4 door fords p/u. I drive a xtra can tacoma.