I’m just coming off a pretty rough year as far as having happy customers. Seven years ago I took over my family business and this year I had not only my first but also my second customer who I can say is not happy. They’ve completely wore me down and jaded me pretty quickly. And of course looking back I saw all the signs that they were going to grind me down the whole way but it’s hard to walk away from two new houses.
Both customers are holding about $5,000.00 each. Nothing that will break me but the fact that they are probably bad mouthing me to anyone who will listen is the part that’s hard to take for me.
The first customer is holding us responsible for his cracked basement wall. Even though that was not included in our contract and he contracted with someone else to do his masonry. What puts us on the hook is the fact that I tried to be a nice guy and said that we would brace it for him for backfilling. We braced it like every other house that we’ve never had a problem with but he’s blaming us. It cracked a couple weeks after backfilling so it couldn’t be said that the excavator did it right then. I tried with my attorney to go after the money. The homeowners came back saying they wanted the whole wall dug up and replaced and had an estimate of $17,000.00. I talked to both the building inspector and the mason who did the basement and gave the replacement estimate. They both said the wall did not need to be replaced. I decided to drop the whole thing because my attorney could easily put $5,000.00 into a court case and then I could end up having to pay to replace a wall I had nothing to do with. Makes me sick.
The second customer is holding ($5,000!!) for what we originally thought was a leaking man door into a garage. After removing the door unit and reinstalling it the concrete floor in front of the door was still getting damp when it rained but it is weeping up through the concrete and not even coming from the door. It’s still a mystery we’re trying to solve for them but he’s just the type of person who calls to yell not to talk and he really shakes my nerves always coming up with something else that is “wrong”. Any ideas on the weeping water I’m open for suggestions. The block is sealed, concrete sealed, concrete is over 6 mil plastic over gravel and the basement adjacent to it is very dry so it’s not a high water table.
I guess I’m lucky to have made it this long without having to deal with people like this. Looking back over the year I can say the other seven homes we built, the customers are happy and would recomend us. Something that makes me feel a little better is the fact that I’ve built for several customers who have built before with other reputable builders in my area. They have been my happiest customers because I think they can see that we are going that extra mile to try and make them happy. They’ve seen how other builders build.
So here’s hoping I put these two far behind me and can find a few good people to build for this year. Thanks for letting me vent a little.
Replies
Here's hoping that 2007 will be your finest year so far!
"Being a cowboy aint all ridin and shootin" - Tim Mooney
those two will get their own just rewards and a few really good customers will be along to ease the pain..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You can have 99 customers in a row that will build you up, it takes but one to knock you down. The second one in the same year will kick you when your down. You have two choices, either get back up and go another round or crawl out of the ring. Good luck, been there, will be there again, C'est la contracting business.
Is there any plumbing that runs through that slab ?
And the plumbing doesn't have to be right there where the water is coming out of the slab.
Hmm, the line for the floor drains does run under this section. It's probably abour 2-3' below the slab. Do you think the water would come up through all that gravel?
No pressurized lines in the slab though.
""After removing the door unit and reinstalling it the concrete floor in front of the door was still getting damp when it rained but it is weeping up through the concrete and not even coming from the door. ""
Does the slab run under the door to the exterior?
If so it is likely you have water wicking back inside from the slab edge that is exposed to the rain water.
If there is a seam or pour joint just outside the door try filling it with a polyurethane caulk that is designed to be liquid when applied.
PL makes one I just cannot remember what it is called exactly.It will flow down into the crack or seam and seal it. Inexpensive fix if it works and at least eliminates one possibility. Found a link for you.
http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products.aspx?ID=Polyurethane%20Self-Leveling-Concrete-Crack-Sealant
Hang in there, I once had a thief for a customer who broke 9 out of the 10 contractors working on his house . (He Generaled it himself) the one left standing told me later he worked for literally nothing but managed to stay afloat. It isn't the money that hurts so bad , it is the recognition that you got taken by some jerk that hurts as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for the link. I've used SL1 it looks like a similar product.
The concrete does run under the door. It's sealed on the outer edge so I thought that would help. But your right there may be a little seperation between the concrete and the block leting water get in there. If it's getting between the plastic and the conrete it's got no where to go but up. I will definitely look at this closer.
One other slight possiblitity is that you are getting condensation in front of the door because the slab edge is exposed to the cold outside air.
I have seen this happen here at my own place on those rare occaisions when we get below freezing temps for a few days or more. Concrete looks damp but there is no visible water.
Just a little thought.
Depending on your time available there is a tool in you toolbox you can use.
Sounds to me you could use small claims court to recover. You have all the ingredients to make a very easy case and if it goes against you you only lose time and effort.
It's a good tool to be able to use and the more you understand it the more streamlined it can be.
And you don't want some jack just bluff you out of your hard earned $$s.
I did a case and went to the lawyer and he says ya we can get it and probably only take 8 to 11 hours billable. Well I didn't want to add that to the stiff job I was getting so I did it myself and learned a lot in the process. Plus I won against an attorney. And I've done a bunch since then-rental related.
So I would look at that. Some folks want to play all in with your money, the least you should do is anti up and have them show that weak hand, since you know the cards.
Sounds like he may be counter sued, though. But, I agree that he should consider that as an option. Could still go either way.
"Being a cowboy aint all ridin and shootin" - Tim Mooney
The owner had the foundation done/paid someone else and ahh oow akk I don't think theres much question in my mind if that's what is holding up the $$$$$$$$ Here's the plans here's my draws nope no foundation draws.
I'll go back and reread but I think that is what he said.
Sounds easy to me, but I have been known to stand up and take some shots. I didn't tell you about the falls afterword.
The thing about it is he knows it just plain wrong, and because of that it requires Judge Judy to rule. Now if you want to get dirty about it and start bluffing first check contract terms? Should include all recovery cost? May or may not be in it. Bet it will be next time. And if Adverse neighbors don't stop the project(Mike Smiths House build thread) Then Adverse Payers shouldn't slow down collection.
But I like the journey of some of it. And that is very much time Dependant.
So a warning- following my above path may be very satisfying if you don't mind missing a payday sometimes.
I agree with you that all angles should be considered and people who don't pay should never be let off the hook lightly.
"Being a cowboy aint all ridin and shootin" - Tim Mooney
It's a natural feeling for somebody that's conscientious about what they do.
In the big picture think of it as the weather. It's all part of the package. And it makes the sunny days sooooo much more enjoyable.
Your problems is you are trying to resolve these problems. You look in the mirror and say I need to try and resolve these issues.
That is GOOOOOOOD thing.
Hey while your at it could you get over here and turn the sun UP, it's been in the low single digits for a week and I just know you did it.
And how bout the 9 million 990 thousand things that are honky dory about the house.
Whenever someone I do not know asks me to do work for them I ask for references and call everyone of them. I ask them for the names of contractors who have done any work for them in the past. It saved my bacon twice that I can remember. The day of the final payment is due on the same day that the building inspector gives the final inspection and passed it. I have never not been paid the entire contract price. There has been a few times where I was paid more.
Why couldn't you take them to small claims court and/or slap a lien on their property? In the contracts I gave people there was an interest rate for any unpaid amounts past the completion date of the project. Is there an arbitration board in your state that handles these problems?
All of us know there are people who knowingly hold back money and provoke the contractor to sue for the remainder. Some have gotten by with it for years. Are there any other contractors you know that have not been paid by the same people.
The worst part is the customer with the foundation is the Son-in-law and Daughter of a couple that we built a house for a couple of years ago and also did a porch addition for just last year! I haven't run into that couple since all of this came about so I wonder what exactly they are being told and how they feel about the whole situation. So possibly they have turned a happy customer against me.
I guess I've just been putting too much faith into my attorney. He's an old family friend so I trust him a lot. But I think I will look into small claims.
The other customer with the wet concrete is new to the area. They told me their "horror" stories of contractors they had dealt with in their old town and remodeling there house<--- First Red Flag. Because of this I have decided if the oppurtunity ever arises I will ask people for references from other contractors they have worked with. I have so many stories about this guy I could turn this thread into a book. But basically I've learned that noone can make him happy and everyone is an idiot.
Usually when one person "bad mouths" another it says that you are most likely to be the same dinner.
I've read this a couple times, but I just don't get it. Maybe I'm a little dense.
Me to I'm hoping some word were left out.
Most people who run down others are very unhappy people and have a need to find someone else to run down. They are to be pitied because they have to live with themselves. If you just happen to be someone they can have for lunch or dinner they will do so. I have noticed that over the years people who spend time running down others have a practice of doing that with most everyone they meet. They are miserable and if you join them you will be miserable in their company.
The type you are talking about are the ones who can never be satisfied - because they don't want to be.
They are unhappy people, and they want you to be unhappy also.
There is a different bunch that is out there who is always looking to cheat someone, it's their sport._______________________________________________________________
Compassion is the radicalism of our time. - Dalai Lama
" they are uhappy people and they want you to be unhappy also". Yes, I remember them. Are we talking about the same lowlives?" There is a different bunch out there who is always looking to cheat someone, its their sport." That has to be the same ones. Was everything fine until you gave them the final bill? Then when you gave them the last bill did they mysteriously sprout horns right above their forehead? Did they suddenly find a bunch of "problems" that they never mentioned until the final payment was due? Did it take over a year to get paid and you finally let the last amount go just to insure that you would never have to hear from them again ? Sound familiar? I think alot of us have dealt with the deadbeats. I have always wondered why there isnt a website for contractors to evaluate their customers, sort of like the eBay feedback system. That way we could avoid the problem customers and deadbeats. I suppose that would just lead to some lawsuits for slander, and they would be the first ones in line and we would be spending all our income on attorneys. I have been fortunate and only had a couple of deadbeats to deal with. I think after a while you just learn to not trust everyone and keep your guard up, watch for the red flags and the flakey people that you dont want to do business with. I figure let someone else have the job, who needs the headaches.
Edited 1/18/2007 12:05 pm ET by wood4rd
Edited 1/18/2007 12:08 pm ET by wood4rd
Just lien it and move on. That is if you can under your state laws.
If you didn't pay the concrete bill or get the company and the home owner did that's his nickel.
Was this spec'd and paid for additional work order or a gratis -I'll help you out here?
That is the determining factor and proportional liability.
If you don't pay no price you don't get no nice.
How bout that weather and what's it worth to ya. Well since your paying premium I'm gonna give you a warrante in writing with 100%fully refundable if I'm wrong.
Forecast= continuing periods of dark and light at *approximate* 12 hour intervals
*Note Importance of "approximate"*verb: be close or similar