FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Concrete Footing question

| Posted in General Discussion on March 20, 2000 01:41am

*
Tom,

Definetly seperate the two. I’ve been pouring concrete for the better part of 10 years and probably avg. 5-6 thousand c.y. a year. Pour the footing for the wall first. Then attach either redwood or 3/4″ black asphalt expansion board on grade to the footing and pour the walk. If the big one decides to take out the walk, it may spare the footing, but not if they are connected. just MHO.

Ron

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. Rob_Hecker | Mar 21, 2000 04:28pm | #10

    *
    A monolithic pour? No way. You have two distinct pours or structures that need to be accounted for.

    On the footer definitely re-bar. Also, 2" of clear space between the steel and the outside of the concrete would help in the long term durability of the footer and the block wall.

    On the sidewalk, Why the re-bar or wire? 99% of concrete pavement used in the US, has no steel in it. The only steel used in concrete pavement are dowel bars at the joint location. If your not intending to drive a dump-truck over the walk, I would just pour as is. All be it, make sure that you groove or cut joints into the sidewalk at least every 5-6 feet. Some would also tell you to use fibers, these do help in small shrinkage cracking. The best advice, as little as possible water in the mix, a lot of water on it for curing. ( after hardening ). Also, drainage , drainage, and more drainage.

  2. Guest_ | Mar 21, 2000 04:53pm | #11

    *
    I will be having done a 4 ft wide concrete path, next to a block wall. For this block wall, the city requires a footing that is 12" W & 24" Deep (for an "I" shaped footing). I intend to have rebar in both the walkway (about 4" thick) & the footing (rebar is mandatory in the footing, and vertically in the block, which will then be filled with grout).

    Are there problems that could result from doing one pour to simultaneously form the walkway & footing ? or should the footing be poured first, with the walkway at a later time? should the rebar for walkway & footing overlap, or not?

    the walkway is going to be right next to the house's concrete foundation, since the house is about 15 yrs old, hopefully the fill dirt next to the foundation has settled (sandy soil) by now.

    1. Guest_ | Mar 17, 2000 12:36am | #1

      *Tom,If you don't get an answer, explore a Masonry Organization. 10 yrs ago, a mason buddy showed me a manual from the Masonry Institute or some such organization. It had a detail for every Bar, Mix, Shape,footing design etc. I'm sure if you can find it, it'll have everything you'll need to know. If you want, email me and I'll contact my still mason buddy and ask him. Best of luck.

      1. Guest_ | Mar 17, 2000 05:17am | #2

        *Sure, it can be done. Except for one possibility: since you don't give any information about the block wall--other than to say it is a block wall and adjacent to a planned sidewalk--I think your bldg. dept. may have something to say about psi strength of the footing. This may differ from what the sidewalk requires. Other than that, be prepared to see some more elaborate formboards than typical. I mean, are the footing and the sidewalk even at the same elevation?

        1. Guest_ | Mar 17, 2000 05:50am | #3

          *If I understand what your asking, a 4" thick sidewalk above grade poured monolithic with a 24" deep footing, seems to me the walk will be subject to frost heave and probably crack at the walk to footing joint. I assume you have frost concerns given the 24" depth?I'm certainly no concrete expert but I'd pour the walk later and isolate the two with an expansion joint.Chuck

          1. Guest_ | Mar 17, 2000 01:18pm | #4

            *Without seeing what you're talking about, it seems like you'd waste alot of concrete to connect a 24" deep footing to a 4" deep sidewalk. I'd say pour at the same time but I wouldn't bother to connect the two.Rebar or rewire in the sidewalk?

          2. Guest_ | Mar 17, 2000 06:18pm | #5

            *being in So Calif, there is no frost problem, but 24" deep is the requirement for a narrow 12" footing, when building a 5-6 ft high wall (we are in a seismic zone, as well).The city requires 2000 psi concrete for the footing, which doesn't seem unreasonable for the pathway adjacent.#4 rebar is required in the footing, and vertical #4 on 24" centers in the blocks; all blocks filled with grout. For the adjacent pathway I'm inclined to use same #4 rebar on about 16-18" centers. Whereas "in theory" mesh might be OK, I hardly ever see mesh installed right. It's stepped on while pouring, sinks to the bottom, and loses all effectiveness. I have spreading cracks, with elevation shifts, in a 15 yr old drive way to prove it. in my situation, it seems that the footing & pathway could be at the same elevation - can't see a compelling reason otherwise... yet. I think I'm hearing most opinions, that probably OK to pour at same time, but may be a good idea to isolate the pathway & footing.

          3. Guest_ | Mar 18, 2000 03:56am | #6

            *Tom:Just as an FYI, around here we use a 2500 PSI mix for footings and 3000 - 4000 PSI for flatwork depending on the anticipated load and quality of substrate. Further I think you will find that for a relatively small pour the price difference between, say 2000 and 3000 PSI is a very small percentage of the overall project cost. I'm with Chuck when he says that the two elements will probably crack apart - unless you really do tie them together with more than a little steel, which in MHO would be way overkill. Even with no frost heave, some settling below the slab could cause the footer to tip & ultimately resulting in the "undoing" of your wall. By the way, what kind of a wall is this? - retaining wall? Garage wall? Whatever you do, be sure to pitch the walk away from the wall slightly to prevent channeling water into your wall foundation.

          4. Guest_ | Mar 18, 2000 06:58pm | #7

            *Matt,the wall is just a "fence" between adjacent properties (replacing part of a deteriorating 40+ yr old block wall that has no visible mortar, just "dry set"). all new block walls in Calif have to be solidly built because of earthquake risk. I've seen pictures of older walls that just "flopped" over like dominoes, when the walls lacked sufficient vertical rebar (tied to the footing's rebar), or lacked solid footings. good inputs from everyone - I'm beginning to think the lowest risk approach is to keep the footing separate from the walkway, even if it does cost somewhat more.

          5. Ron_Williams | Mar 20, 2000 01:41am | #8

            *Tom, Definetly seperate the two. I've been pouring concrete for the better part of 10 years and probably avg. 5-6 thousand c.y. a year. Pour the footing for the wall first. Then attach either redwood or 3/4" black asphalt expansion board on grade to the footing and pour the walk. If the big one decides to take out the walk, it may spare the footing, but not if they are connected. just MHO.Ron

          6. Guest_ | Mar 20, 2000 05:54am | #9

            *Tom,I hope you heed the advice of both Chuck and Ron. Isolate the walkway from the footer. If tied together, your sidewalk will definately crack apart; only a matter of time. As for rebar in your foundation footer...YES. AS for rebar in your sidewalk....NO.Use the 6X6 inch welded wire mesh. Buy some "chairs", your concrete supplier will have some; or simply lay the mesh across some pieces of brick. This will be sufficient for keeping the mesh off the ground and set into the concrete. The "key" to keeping the concrete sidewalk from cracking too much later on is to prepare a solid, well packed base first. remove the grass sod, and looose dirt, and excavate down about 8 to 10 inches deep. Compact this ground, add about 4 to 6 inches of gravel(perferably) or sand overtop of this base and compact again. Then go ahead and pour your sidewalk.Good luck on the outcome.Davo.

  3. Guest_ | Mar 21, 2000 04:53pm | #12

    *
    Rob H... right on... i would add.. make sure you have suitable material for your subbase (gravel) and...

    compaction, compaction, compaction....

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 692: Introduction to Trade Work, Embodied Carbon, and Envelope Improvements

Listeners write in about fostering trade work and proposed changes to Canadian code and ask questions about roof and wall insulation for an old house.

Featured Video

How to Install Cable Rail Around Wood-Post Corners

Use these tips to keep cables tight and straight for a professional-looking deck-railing job.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 692: Introduction to Trade Work, Embodied Carbon, and Envelope Improvements
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Embodied Greenhouse Gas Emissions and the Building Codes
  • Old Boots Learn New Tricks
  • Install Denim Insulation Like a Pro

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2025
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data