Replies

1. 
   junkhound | Jul 29, 2009 03:23am | #1

   do i really want to place 223yds of concrete....

   NOT ME....

   Did 28 yards by myself (except for truck driver) 20 years ago in one day, bout killed myself getting it finished before the last was setup! 

    

1. 
   brownbagg | Jul 29, 2009 03:29am | #2

   but asphalt has to be redone every five years

1. 
   ponytl | Jul 29, 2009 05:29am | #6

   around here i can get 20+ years out of an asphalt parking lot... as long as i take care of it... somewhat... sealcoating and pothole and  crack repair...   steady use on asphalt is better than little or no use...    if i had a laydown machine... I'd think about it harder...... most concrete drives around here are still fine after 50 years and no rebar and have'n had zero done to em...

   what i like is the contrast between concrete and asphalt... some of each keeps it from lookng like too much of either...

   thats why i thought I'd  stamp some... or border it with stamping... just to keep it from looking like way too much concrete...

   p

    

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Jul 29, 2009 08:45am | #15

   "what i like is the contrast between concrete and asphalt... some of each keeps it from lookng like too much of either..."

   In Victoria, the closest city to me, they designated certain downtown streets for civic improvement. Along with new lights and furniture, they made the street itself more interesting by pouring a series of concrete circles and pairs of rectangles - almost like quotation marks - placed randomly as though sprinkled into the asphalt from above. The result really transforms the space. You experience it walking at street-level, and in a very different way looking down from neighboring buildings

2. 
   Svenny | Jul 29, 2009 06:18am | #10

   "but asphalt has to be redone every five years"Not true.Built a house in 1988, the customer insisted on asphalt (Everyone else in the neighborhood has concrete) We hired a good asphalt company, as in every trade that's the key.He coats it every other year-the stuff you buy from HD or Lowes-it's still in great shape. Fairly big drive too, with a circle loop and island. Probably about 5000 sq ft.Why did they want asphalt? Both husband and wife grew up in houses with well maintained asphalt drives that never needed replacing in over 25 years. Also they like the way a little sun melts the snow off.John Svenson, builder,  remodeler,  NE Ohio

2. 
   ponytl | Jul 29, 2009 05:34am | #7

   maybe... 15 years ago i built  a truck dock at a warehouse for a guy.. the kind where the ramp went down... so that the trailer bed was at warehouse floor height...  

   my 2 guys didn't show up but the concrete did... july... 105 outside...   had the driver not hosed me down and helped i'm sure i'd be dead...

   I'd like to be the guy that's on the bull float and trowel machine and on the stamps.. the screeding is what hurts you...

   p:)

1. 
   RalphWicklund | Jul 29, 2009 07:50am | #14

   Get a Vibra Screed and it won't hurt any more.http://www.granitecitytool.com/showitemvideos.cfm?itemnum=1079

2. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Jul 29, 2009 04:06am | #3

   I think your asphalt would be around $35K around here in place.

3. 
   hammer1 | Jul 29, 2009 05:17am | #4

   You don't list your location. Concrete in a hard frost area isn't going to last. Crushed rock isn't the best choice for an asphalt bed. Drainage and bed are as important as the top finish. Asphalt is easy to place additional layers as time passes, not so with concrete. One layer of asphalt isn't going to last. Asphalt is dark and will hold and reflect a lot of heat. Location and proper prep are the questions you need to answer before making a choice.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   DanH | Jul 29, 2009 05:20am | #5

   > Concrete in a hard frost area isn't going to last.????
   As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz

1. 
   hammer1 | Jul 29, 2009 05:37am | #8

   Here in Maine, concrete gets broken up by the heaving of the frost. It doesn't matter how many expansion joints or how careful you are with drainage. The conditions and rapid temperature changes up here cause it to crack. It almost never breaks on an expansion joint, either. You won't find many concrete drives or roads up here. The one highway that was done in concrete, eventually topped in asphalt, is now being ripped up and will be rebuilt with asphalt, but the concrete under needs to go first.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   DanH | Jul 29, 2009 06:21am | #11

   Our concrete driveway is 33 years old. Yes it cracked in the slab closest to the house, but the contractor is well known (now) to be the type who failed to compact the fill properly. The rest of the drive is in good shape.Of course, it doesn't get cold here in Minnesota.
   As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz

1. 
   hammer1 | Jul 29, 2009 06:52am | #12

   There are a few exceptions up here but they are extremely rare. I only know of one.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   DanH | Jul 29, 2009 03:57pm | #17

   Probably 2/3rds or 3/4ths of suburban driveways here are concrete.
   As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz

3. 
   brownbagg | Jul 29, 2009 06:41pm | #18

   asphalt when it heats up in the day expands and the traffic rolls it back down, that one reason for the little dips in the wheel paths. if asphalt is not rolled it will get loose and the weather will make it brittle. that why old unused road look so bad. asphalt is fine for roadways but it is a high maintained product. But then so is concrete in a freeze thaw region.

2. 
   barmil | Jul 29, 2009 10:53pm | #21

   No, no, no -- concrete doesn't break up in the winter. I live in Wisconsin, and most drives, alleys, and streets here are concrete, and, believe it or not, we can still make our way around in the winter. I've lived in all parts of the country, and I see asphalt mostly in the south (defined to me as south of the Wisconsin-Illinois border). In my area, the asphalt contractor is too busy doing highways to have time for home driveways. No, it's not the winters that wreak havoc on our highways -- it's the semis. The only advantage of an asphalt driveway, to me, is that every two years, you get to buy twenty gallons of asphalt sealer from the big box, spread it around the driveway, put up cones for a day at the entrance, and then admire the perfect finish for a few months. I'd rather have concrete and be fishing.

1. 
   user-253667 | Jul 29, 2009 10:58pm | #22

   Well I live in Ontario and your answer sums it up very nicely.

   I guess concrete being more reflective is better for global warming.

   The 407 highway was all poured concrete because the maintenance cycle is at 40- 50 years whereas asphalt is 20 years or so.

2. 
   Tim | Jul 30, 2009 03:19pm | #28

   "Concrete in a hard frost area isn't going to last."

   Only if installed by a incompetent asphalt contractor. Basically, you're used to cheap and stupid, but just describing what you see. Still way wrong. In the midwest, concrete roads are the only ones not repaved every 8 - 10 years.

1. 
   brownbagg | Jul 30, 2009 03:23pm | #29

   so what would be greener concrete or asphalt?

1. 
   Tim | Jul 30, 2009 03:25pm | #30

   concrete

4. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Jul 29, 2009 05:50am | #9

   i vote concrete. i have had pretty good luck with getting it ready,and having a crew come in and lay it. they can do a lot in one day if it's ready. and they can get pretty competitive on large areas. but thats alot of area for guys that don't do it for a living.

   i had a 25k sq ft parking/car lot run for about 15 cents a foot [cash]a couple years back. sounds like they didn't make nothing but there was 5 of them and they laid it in 2 days.  all they had to do was pour and light broom finish.

   small areas gets up to around .50 to a 1.00 a ft ,but around here they are starving.

    

   black top has a real nice look when new,but it's a product that needs upkeep,concrete doesn't. but i will say if i was doing a car lot again and money was not a problem,i would do blacktop. why? because i used to stand out there talking to customers and the reflection off of the white concrete was blinding.

   never trust a car dealer that squints his eyes.

   the older i get ,

   the more people tick me off

5. 
   jimAKAblue | Jul 29, 2009 07:42am | #13

   I love stamped concrete and you live in a climate that can really capitalize on the beauty of it and not worry too much about it getting messed up with frost and freezing cycles.

   But....I also love the black asphalt contrasting with lush green and colorful landscaping. One huge advantage about asphalt is that you can make it look new again every year with a fresh coat of sealer.

   I've worked in both types of subdivisions and I much prefer to be in asphalt subs with the lush green suburban landscaping.

6. 
   Engineerguy | Jul 29, 2009 09:26am | #16

   Both materials have their pluses and minuses.

   Asphalt is quicker and easier to lay down.  And if the base course is properly layed and compacted, it should last quite a while if the surface is properly maintained.  Utility cuts are quicker and easier to do than concrete.

   Portland Cement Concrete, will last longer than asphalt.  Hands down.  Initial cost are higher due to labor, and formworks.

   What it is going to come down to is cost.  Find out the cost from your asphalt guys and run the numbers.

   And how long you expect the parking lot to serve it's purpose.

    

   I think I can say, and say with pride that we have some legislatures that bring higher prices than any in the world. - Mark Twain
   

7. 
   john7g | Jul 29, 2009 07:17pm | #19

   never liked asphalt drives for residential, too much of it ends up in the rugs & carpets during the summer heat. 

   I like the idea of stamping the edges of the CC to add the unique and 1 of a kind look.  Shows a desire to be different with class.  Have you thought of dye for the CC to add 1 more layer of distinction?  I've no idea of that cost though. 

1. 
   ponytl | Jul 30, 2009 02:01am | #24

   pretty sure it will be concrete...  i have a power screed... a 12ft alum box float... and plenty of bull floats edge tools... and  several patterns of stamps...

   I don't have a ton of time to get this done... but it is a budget issue...  and doing it inhouse  i can hire some guys who can set forms and screed and do finish work...  I can border it with stampings...  and break it up again with stamped sections... which will define areas...... i can come back and stain the stamped sections...

   I have a dozer lined up for saturady to get my final grade ( or close to it...)  i can touch up with my bobcat...  get the final grade for the patios and dumpster pad on sunday...

   i should start form'n all the patios on monday...  maybe place them tuesday...  get the small stuff that's at the furthest points done.... then do the drives... parking... ect...

   I have  one alley/drive... thats 17ft wide and  100ft long....   i was thinking of leaving  2... to...3ft x maybe 8ft long  voids centers and spaced out along this drive... fill them with crushed rock  or even grass to allow for some natural drainage... right now this are is low all crushed rock and after a hard rain it can  have 4" of standing water that soon drains away into the soil... so i know the area perks well...  being less than 200 ft from the mississippi river I don't know that i have to be concerned with returning ground water to the earth seeing as how billions of gallons flow past me every minute...( this based on location and elevation)  if i was 2 miles away i could see the need...

   anyway I'll start checking to see what kind of deal i can get with a readymix plant in the morning...

   thanks guys..

   p

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Jul 30, 2009 02:09am | #25

   Did you ever decide on a design for your covered parking?

    

1. 
   ponytl | Jul 30, 2009 02:36am | #26

   yeah... simple 2 poles holding a beam on which the perlins will rest...  these 2 pole & beams will be every 3 spaces... they will be canted or out of square with the parking pad by 3ft front to back... as each parking space will be like angled... so you pull in the front and you'll be face'n the the way you will exit out the back... no one ever has to back out...  the poles will be about 12ft apart with the beam on top of these being about 20ft...  I scored enough 8inch perlins to put them 4ft  o/c   i have the sheet metal roofing...... I might dress up across the front with a small 4ft mansard... i have a ton of old corigated heavy weatherd tin... to make it look like it's always been there.. maybe even paint and old sign arcoss it  to add to the effect....  at 162ft long  using 27ft bays @9ft per car... thats 18 covered spaces... plus I'll have 16 non covered spaces... for 19 units... plus the garage thats part of the 20th unit (my unit)....

   way more parking per unit than anything else around this area

   p

    

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Jul 30, 2009 02:47am | #27

   Perfect. The no backing in or out thing will sure prolong its life.

8. 
   rjw | Jul 29, 2009 08:35pm | #20

   Concrete if the cost differential isn't too much.

   Or take your shoes off when going into the house after walking on the asphalt - the hydrocarbons (or whatever) will discolor your flooring pretty quickly.

   The "voice of experience...."

   ---

   "Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."

   Howard Thurman

   ---

   http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/

9. 
   Junkman001 | Jul 30, 2009 01:58am | #23

   If you're keeping the property, and do a competant job, use crete. 

   Asphalt doesn't last.

    

   Mike

   Insert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
10. 
    frenchy | Jul 30, 2009 03:32pm | #31

    ponytl.

     If you do it with concrete you increase the value of the home (not enough to recoup quickly if selling is your goal)

     You also avoid the annual resealing and concrete is far more durable.

      Asphalt is cheaper and easier..

1. 
   ponytl | Jul 31, 2009 01:14am | #32

   in my case ... concrete will be cheaper...    I can get a bit of a deal...buy'n 200+ yards... and  pay'n cash...  I'll add a few thousand dollars to my weekly labor cost... and  still come out a good 15k ahead  if i used concrete for the walks and parking pad & patios... and brought in the asphalt guys for the drives...

   I have many more design options with concrete... I'll stamp and color alot of it... i can add alot of upgrades to concrete for little or no cost... not much i can do with asphalt...

   plus i have alot more control over the finished product use'n concrete ... i was going to bring on a few guys anyway for the patios, walks and parking pad anyway... now i'll just keep em longer/give em a little more work

   P:)

1. 
   frenchy | Jul 31, 2009 03:25pm | #33

   Atta Boy!  Better value for you!

2. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Jul 31, 2009 04:01pm | #34

   what kind of price did they shoot you on 200 yds? they like the idea of sending 20 trucks to the same place.the older i get ,

   the more people tick me off

1. 
   drozer | Jul 31, 2009 07:32pm | #35

   i figure this is too late for your job, but others might be interested.http://www.soilretention.com/drivablegrass.htmlits a 2'x2' concrete paver with voids or honeycombs that you fill with dirt and plant seed to give you... drivable grass.plan on using it for my parking area, when i get around to it. lol.

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Jul 31, 2009 07:53pm | #36

   There are several parking lots nearby that use similar products. Very nice looking and retains all storm water. The only downside is that it has a tendency to want to grow over and completely engulf the pavers. You have to keep at it or you end up with a buried driveway. Don't know how it is for snow removal as it isn't an issue here.

2. 
   brownbagg | Jul 31, 2009 08:16pm | #37

   there use a product here, where you undercut the parking lot 3 feet, and they put these plastic drums like 55 on their side, cover with gravel then pave the gravel so all the storm water stays on site. They claim it will hold up loaded 18 wheelers

3. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 01, 2009 01:51am | #38

   Neat idea. What I like about the grassy paver things is that they also keep the heat down. It is only pleasantly warm here today, but I left my wife in the car at the lumberyard while I was placing an order and when I came out she was cooked! Next time I guess I should leave the windows cracked.

4. 
   john7g | Aug 01, 2009 02:20am | #39

   bowl of water too?

    

   :)

5. 
   ponytl | Aug 01, 2009 03:23am | #40

   i thought about a like idea... i saw where they used short sections of  4" cardboard tubes like carpet comes on...   used them randomly in the pour leave'n holes to plant... a mondo (sp) type grass...  i figured it'd be easier to come back with my core drill while the concrete is green... and take some plugs out...... prople trip'n might be an issue?

   p

2. 
   ponytl | Aug 01, 2009 03:28am | #41

   best firm price i got today...  was $82yd  4000lb limestone mix......  high was  $106yd... the low price came from the folks who are usually the highest...but the same ones i got my lightweight concrete from that we used on the second floor

   p... i budgeted  (not like i have one) $100yd...    82 + our 9.25% sales tax  comes to $90  still 2k less than i figured

   p:)