Replies

1. 
   calvin | Dec 07, 2007 06:24am | #1

   Take a look at the back of the device.  There should be holes that will accept the wire (stripped to proper length-guide on back also).  These are not the bogus back stab connection but a good method using the side screws to clamp down hard on the wire.  Push the wire in the hole and tighten the corresponding side terminal screw.

   A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

2. 
   fingersandtoes | Dec 07, 2007 06:52am | #2

   "it is in a middle of the run,2 black and 2 white"

   Does your code allow you to directly wire through outlets? Here in Canada we have to pigtail outlets so that the circuit still works if the outlet fails.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 07, 2007 08:28am | #4

   For a GFCI to protect downstream receptacles you have to "Wire Through" the GFCI.For plain receptacle the code allows either, except for the neutral on multiwire circuits.However, most people think that pigtailing the connections is a better way of doing it..
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 07, 2007 03:51pm | #5

   "However, most people think that pigtailing the connections is a better way of doing it."

   Not to hijack this thread, but this reminded me of sumthin' I'm still scratching my head over.

   The other day, a friend called me for help. He was replacing a porcelain bare bulb fixture in his basement hall with a nicer fixture. Figured it would be an easy homeowner project. And it should have been.

   Turns out, whatever lame brain installed the fixture decided to save big bucks and forego wire nuts. He used exactly one nut to connect the hot legs of 4 cables (power in, power out, 3-way switched power out, switch) and use the fixture screws to connect the rest. Of course, when the HO removed the fixture, he was totally lost, with a bunch of wires that he had no idea where they came from/went to or how to hook them back up.

   Took me about 1/2 hour to figure out what was what and get him up & running again. I can't imagine using a light fixture screw to connect 3 or 4 12s just to save two wire nuts. Sheesh!

   Yeah, pigtailing is a better idea.

   The good ending to the story is that the guy had a like-new Fluke 73 he had gotten from work at an old job. Said "I never use this -- you want it?" You bet! Nice (albeit old) meter. Free tools are *always* the best tools.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

    

1. 
   wane | Dec 07, 2007 04:00pm | #6

   Stab connections are #### .. GFI screw terminals are different than on switches, sorry don't have one in front of me, take another look at it, and you'll here yourself saying, "Ohhh, so that's how they work" .. I think the screw moves a little plate to secure the wire between the switch and plate .. or something like that ..

1. 
   calvin | Dec 07, 2007 07:33pm | #7

   I was sure I had seen a back entry gfi, but now you've got me questioning myself.  I do remember the type of which you speak.  Slide stripped wire straight in on one side of the plate, tighten the screw.

   Thanks, wonder what else I'm not remembering correctly.

   At what age does the dreaded senility start to appear?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

2. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 07, 2007 08:06pm | #8

   "At what age does the dreaded senility start to appear?"Take your age and subtract 1 year, if you are still able to do higher math <G>.I replaced a GFCI in garage. It has wire leads on it for hot, neutral, and ground. Like a dimmer.Thus it could not protect downstream receptacles. The house was built in 1980 and I am guessing that it was orginal.Never seen one like that before.But all current GFCI's that I have seen have been spec grade with the backwiring clamps. Exactly the same that are used on the spec grade receptacels with the optional backwiring..
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

3. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 07, 2007 08:29pm | #9

   "But all current GFCI's that I have seen have been spec grade with the backwiring clamps."

   Yep, and as an added bonus, even the ground screw has a backwire clamp. I only discovered that AFTER struggling to get the wire under the screw. DOH!

   Some GFIs (older ones?) had both screw terminals and pigtails -- one for line, one for load, but I can never remember which for which. Always have to look at the labeling.

   I know, senile. Or at least I think I am. I forget. What were we talking about? ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

4. 
   calvin | Dec 07, 2007 09:32pm | #10

   Now, if they could just slim those devices down just that weeeeee bit more you could slide them in a filled (not over) old metal box (while taped) without all the hassle and goose grease.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

5. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 07, 2007 10:13pm | #12

   I got a Model 457-B box strecher.Lowes has then in the tool department next to the board stretchers..
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

6. 
   IMERC | Dec 07, 2007 10:26pm | #13

   only found the 353...

   and they didn't work so well... 

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

7. 
   MarkH | Dec 08, 2007 12:02am | #14

   Try a 4 pound hammer.

8. 
   IMERC | Dec 08, 2007 12:03am | #15

   got it.... 

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

9. 
   MarkH | Dec 08, 2007 12:56am | #16

   Or a nine pound hammer.

10. 
    IMERC | Dec 08, 2007 03:44am | #19

    one time I ued a 200 ton Enterpac sread jaw...

    made that box larger slicker than deer guts on a door knob.. 

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

    WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

11. 
    MarkH | Dec 08, 2007 03:10pm | #20

    I'da liked to have seen that!  Maybe I'll see what my portopower would do to one.  Just fer fun.

    Edited 12/8/2007 7:31 am ET by MarkH

12. 
    JTC1 | Dec 07, 2007 09:55pm | #11

    >>GFCI in garage.....wire leads...for hot, neutral, and ground..... house was built in 1980......guessing ... was orginal...... Never seen one like that before.<<

    I remember those from the early '80's.  Huge as I recall. Also came with a bigger price tag than today - ~$25 each in 1980 dollars, you sure couldn't get a three pack for $30 with cover plates like now.

    Can't remember who made them -- I guess I'm old.

    Note: whoever wired the house originally was pretty forward thinking since I don't think they were required in a garage at that time.  Bet the electrical in the rest of the house is done very well.

    Jim  

    Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

    Edited 12/7/2007 2:01 pm ET by JTC1

13. 
    BillHartmann | Dec 08, 2007 01:02am | #17

    Actually the NEC required them much earlier.I have a chart and here are the some of the basics. Lots of details in the footnotes71 NEC Exteriors (effective Jan 1 73)
    78 NEC Bathrooms and Garages
    87 Kitchens 6 ft from sink.
    96 Kitchens, all counter tops.Now I don't know what code that city adopted at the time. The last I looked they was using the 2003 IRC, but amended it to not require AFCI's and the kitchen GFCI's only with 6ft of the sink.My house was built in 79. At that time the HOA issued building permits and the FD did inspections, but they weren't very detailed.They wired it to minimize the GFCI's. And them pulled them.So I have one 15 amp circuit that feeds 3 bathrooms and 2 outside receptaceles..
    .
    A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

14. 
    JTC1 | Dec 08, 2007 01:25am | #18

    >>71 NEC Exteriors (effective Jan 1 73)78 NEC Bathrooms and Garages87 Kitchens 6 ft from sink.96 Kitchens, all counter tops.<<

    Our city must have done some strange things vs NEC re: GFCIs in the past.

    All bathrooms and kitchen "6' of sink" rule were both adopted pre 1982.  Garages came along somewhere around 1985.

    Got in synch with NEC ~ 1993.

    Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

3. 
   DanH | Dec 07, 2007 06:52am | #3

   As Calvin says, get a "backwired" device. Most (but not all) GFIs are backwired.

   Otherwise, lots of patience and a good pair of needlenose pliers.

   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader