Replies

1. 
   The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Aug 27, 2001 03:01pm | #1

   *
   Mr. Bellamy,

   Think in layers....walk around the house you live in at present...How bout the flues for the heat system?...I work for an arch that always fo-gets the flues!

   near the stream that needs no flue apparantly,

   aj

   email the list...I bet I can spot any obvious missings in seconds.

1. 
   Bellamy_Contracting | Aug 27, 2001 03:27pm | #2

   *Thanks adirondackjack, It's 6:30 am and I'm leaving for work. I send the list tonight. As far as HVAC. When I draw a set of plans, any time there is question, I call my heating buddy to discuss it. We look over the runs etc. and try to avoid beams and the such. I always think of the b-vent first. As a framer, I try to drop any walls in the basement they need to run through. ( these now happy HVAC guys are giving me a great deal on my own house) It pays to co-operate with your fellow trades.I owe I owe, It's off to work I go.

1. 
   xJohn_Sprung | Aug 27, 2001 06:40pm | #3

   *Bellamy --If the size of costs you're finding missing is down to towel racks and TP holders, you're already in great shape. It's truly futile to try to budget a project as vast as a house or a TV show down to the last nickel. You eventually reach a point where the time and effort to determine actual costs will cost you more than the actual costs themselves. So we just put a contingency line item in of 5% to 20% depending on how crazy the project is.-- J.S.

1. 
   Geoff_ | Aug 28, 2001 05:01am | #4

   *Mr. Bellamy, I would like to see more trades people practice your sentiments, It pays to co-operate with your fellow trades. Geoff

1. 
   Mark_"if_I_were_a_carpenter | Aug 28, 2001 05:37am | #5

   *Mr. Bellamy, Jack had the best suggestion, make up the list and then submit it to others for proofreading. I only wish people who handle and prepare really important documents (mortgages, contracts, my last paycheck, etc.) would do that more often. I am about to embark on the same adventure myself. and I say to you good luck and good building my friend. Keep us posted with updates.

2. 
   Bellamy_Contracting | Aug 28, 2001 03:04pm | #6

   *Thanks for the input guys. BTW Mr Bellamy is my dad!! Call me Les. Anyhow, here's the list.Lot purchaseLegal feesBuilding permitInsuranceConstruction utilitiesSurvey certificateWater connectionGas conectionHydro conectionDraftingLandscapeingExcavationConcrete Walls,footings Slabs Driveway,sidewalkConcrete finishingForm rentalsRebarDamp proofingWeeping tileFraming packageFloor joistTrussesDoors,windowsinterior doorsDoor knobs,etc,garage doorframing labourroofingsoffits,guttersstuccoelectricalfixturesplumbingheatinggascentral vacalarm systeminsulationdrywallpaintingfinishing material,labourcabinets,vanitiesmirrorsappliancesflooring material,labourbathroom fixtures

3. 
   Mongo_ | Aug 28, 2001 03:48pm | #7

   *Les, It's tough to add to your list, as it's a fairly generic list...each topic could be broken down into several additional sub-topics. In some cases you've kind of done that, as you list "framing package," yet also separately list "floor joists" and "trusses."In a way it makes it tough for me to know what's in your "packages," how well thought out they are, such as if "garage door" includes the garage door opener.A couple of small things...any chimneys/fireplaces? Are stairs included with "finishing material"? Tiling...for bathrooms, tub surrounds, or shower stall? You have "bathroom fixtures," does that include tubs and/or showers as well? you have "electrical" followed by "fixtures." Is that electrical fixtures," as in area lighting, task lighting, smoke/CO alarms, exterior lighting, etc?With your cabinets, is the hardware included? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but $8 drawer pulls, $20 drawer slides, and $15 pairs of hinges add up real quickly.Kitchens and bathrooms are the financial black holes when building...they suck up most of your money. Know exactly what is going in, and where it is going in, down to the last detail.All together, after a quick glance it seems that you have most of the trades covered. If you were doing the work yourself I'd really want to see this list broken down into much more detail to minimize suprises...all the way to including nails, screws, and simpson ties. If you're subbing out most of the work, then it's okay to be more generic and just list the various trades, as their bids proposals and bids should include the minor details.With any construction, be very careful regarding "allowances." Five thousand dollars for hardwood flooring may sound like a lot until you go to pick out the flooring and discover that the wood you want is $4 a foot, and the labor to install it is $2 a foot, and you have 2000 sq feet of flooring to be installed. Ouch.Most of my questions are rhetorical...just to get you thinking...Good luck with your project. It seems that you're off to a good start.

4. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Aug 28, 2001 04:33pm | #8

   *I am not a building pro, but I do have a couple of thoughts.I see water and hydro connections, which sounds redundant. But no sewer or septic system.Also I don't see anything for specialized rentals. That would include porta poties, generators, and stagging.Also hauling and cleanup. Depending on the lot that may mean hauling off rock and extra dirt or bring in dirt. And you will need a construction dumpster.And once I got past the roughin stage I would not try to do it by trade (plumbing fixtures, light fixtures, etc), but by room. List each and every thing that goes between the rough floor and the ceiling joist and between the stud walls. After you do that you might want to total all of the rooms by trade. But develope a "whole" room list first.

5. 
   Eric_Svendson | Aug 28, 2001 07:12pm | #9

   *Not that you would need a "book" (I would) but there are probably numerous books on this subject that include a check list as you have suggested. Maybe almost as important as having a complete list is the "proper" order of the list and the assignment of each item to a group, i.e. rough plumbing, finish plumbing, exterior door trim, interior window trim, etc., etc.A little off topic is that several months ago someone quizzed the group for items they would put into their home if they were "doing it all over again" or something to that effect. Finding that list would provide a wealth of ideas.

6. 
   Jason_DD_ | Aug 28, 2001 07:29pm | #10

   *a good book you might want to check out is "Working Drawing Manual" by Fred A. Stitt. as it says on the cover "includes checklists for working drawings of all types". it is written for architects, but with the intention of providing thorough drawings and specs for the contractor. its about $50.another approach is to go down the CSI index line by line.someone else already mentioned hauling, debris, rentals...., and i agree and recomend giving some mor e thought to the expenses related to building, as well as what goes into the house. good luck, have fun.

7. 
   Mongo_ | Aug 28, 2001 08:14pm | #11

   *This list is not MY list...and it is slightly dated...I don't agree with many of the items listed...but it may get you thinking about a thing or two, for better or for worse.Better grab a cold one, as it's long. And boring. And repetitive. Like me.

8. 
   Bellamy_Contracting | Aug 29, 2001 03:57am | #12

   *Thanks for all the input guys. Mongo- my list is much more detialed but I thought it easier to give you the condensed version.As far as trusses and joist, I have done the lumber take off myself and had it priced seperately.I have gone over many of the quotes I have received so far very carefully to insure every little detial is there. Hopefully I didn't miss any. Bill- porta pottie??? The world is our urinal. For the other, the gas stastion is only 5 min down the road. I didn't think bout clean up costs. The dump fees will add up I'm sure. Consider it added to the list.I will be on sewer and that has been included in the plumber and excavation qoutes.I really appreciate everybodies input. I might check out the books you suggested.I will probably be starting in a couple of months. If I missed anything I'll let you know.P.S Does the pointy side of the truss go up or down? HaHa

2. 
   Bellamy_Contracting | Aug 29, 2001 03:57am | #13

   *
   I've been a framer for ten years as well as a draftsman. I'm about to the build my own house. I feel confident in my abilities to to do the G.C. myself. What I'm looking for, is a detialed checklist to make sure I haven't missed anything in my budget figures.I spent alot of time on my own list but realized last night I missed towel racks and paper holders.I tried to remeber all the hidden stuff ( ie. permits, utility hook up etc,) but I'm worried about any small detials.I have read many a thread about doing your own G.C. ( or should I say horror stories ) but I think my in the field experience gives me enough credibility to do the project.
   Any help would be greatly appreciated.