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I’m new to this terrific site, so please be gentle.
I see many adds that refer to tools, especially power tools as “Contractor Grade.” What does that mean? Are they extra rugged? Cheap? What grades of tools are above and below?
Great site. I just spent a few hours reading many threads. Very informative. lots of fun, too.
Vince
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Hee, hee, don't be fooled by what the mfr says. The truly high-end tools seem to have the most boring packaging. Contractor-grade tend to be the ones with the scary prices, they don't need any other marking. My favorite expression is "builder grade" -- why does that mean cr*p?
*I haven't completely figured out the tool labeling. But I am convinced that any building material labeled contractor grade or builder grade is, indeed, cr*p. The most obvious example I can think of is Pella Pro windows. Apparently, Pella does in fact make high quality windows, but they don't call them Pro.Rich Beckman
*New & Improved! Better tasting...less filling! More powerful! Heavy duty!These are all just advertising ploys to make you buy the items. Contractor grade, industrial grade etc... really don't mean squat as power tools are concerned. Usually it is a different body with the same guts.The best source for selecting tools is probably right here. These guys have used most of them and can tell what has worked best, lasted longest etc...My personal preference is dewalt for power tools. Every Dewalt I have has performed exceptionally. Well worth the bucks. Craftsman, skill, benchtop et al is garbage made for the handyman or DIY crowd. Dewalt, Milwaukee & bosch are the higher end and better tools for the guys in the field.ask around and you'll get suitable answers.Pete Draganic
*Vince R,Welcome.I carry a "Contractor Grade" Stanley 25' tape.It doesn't seem to measure any better than the regular Stanley 25' tape. But it did cost more.Go figure.Ed. Williams
*Hello All,I am going to share a little info here. Please do not think I am trying to convince you of anything, or try to get you to believe that "mine is better than yours", or anything like that. I am simply sharing some info that, quite evident from some of the comments here and there, you people do not have. Sears Craftsman tools fall into 3 actual categories. 2 of the categories are sold in their stores. Homeowner, and light Industrial are the first two. The third category is sold by ordering from an Industrial salesman only. These tools are marketed, and sold from an entirely different location, and are manufactured and marketed to Industry only. Homeowners do not have access to them unless you have the catalogues, or know the salesmen. As a vocational instructor for several years, I had to purchase our shop tools (both machine and hand) from various sources. Sears always won the bid (required by state law) for the tools. The quality and the price were unbeatable. Now I am not talking about the in store type tools. The cabinet saws, for example, started at $2,500.00 and went up from there. We gave specs, and they gave us prices. Bandsaws (18") started at $1,750.00 and went up. Drills, saws, cordless tools, etc... were all very heavy duty, and expensive. Most of the smaller power tools were manufactured by leading tool manufacturers around the world, such as Milwaukee, Porter Cable, Ryobi, Hitachi, Bosch, Makita, etc... Most of these tools were of much better quality and design than what I now buy from my local tool suppliers for myself. Once in a while, when I really need a better quality tool than I can find locally, I order a tool from the Industrial catalogue. Again, these are not the tools at the local Sears store, although quite a few of the cordless and corded power tools are beginning to hit their shelves. My local store is starting a new tool section dedicated specifically to the Industrial grade tools. Bigger tools like table saws, band saws, etc... will still have to be ordered, but at least you will have a floor model to look at and check out.REMEMBER... this is just FYI for those who actually give a damn. This is not a plug for the Craftsman tools, and I am not trying to change your minds. Just plain info being shared.James DuHamel
*Man, Rich, you are right about Pella windows. I recently stopped in a showroom while researching SGDs for a customer and was sorely disappointed with everything I saw. - jb
*It comes down to the warranty (at least in Canada). If it is DIY grade, and you use it to make money, bingo, no warranty. Contractor grade (or at least the middle grade, can't remember what it's called) allows some light duty use. Industrial grade means the warranty holds no matter what you do with it.
*If you look hard at a lot of the Craftsman tools, they are obviously branded tools we all know cased in black. For one, they have a small recip. that is obviously the DeWalt. Don't know about the guts. A lot of people out there must have easier access to a Sears than a decent multibrand tool dealer (does such a thing exists outside of mailorder? not here).I don't think Sears makes much. The appliances, for example, are always just subtle variations on branded products.
*J-U-N-K I don't think it was wise to fail to distinguish the 'economy' line better from the brandname.
*The Craftsman version is better. Honest -- there's a little nib at the back bottom that makes it harder to accidentally fire the retraction (this is the squeeze release style).
*Don't forget that the true price and quality of a tool includes more than just the purchase price. It includes the cost and ease of maintenance and the ability to get replacement parts.I'm always concerned with "house" labeled products that there are subtle variations in parts that make it difficult/impossible to repair. For example, can the Industrial Grade Craftsman tools be repaired at any tool repair center, or do they have to be shipped back to just one place? If someone is a heavy user of particular tool(s) I recommend checking with a repair place to see if the tool in question is easy/inexpensive to repair, particularly the parts like brushes and strain relief cords that you KNOW will have to be replaced. In fact, checking with a repair center is a good way to get a handle on the true quality of a tool. Plus they are someone you will want to develop a relationship with anyway.
*The folks behind the counter at your local rental yard can tell you what stands up to heavy use and what doesn't. Nothin' gets abused like rental tools.
*I'm going to add my opinion. I have always had a tool fetish, (wife thinks I get more aroused by a new tool than with her) and I have more of my net worth wrapped up in them than I care to know. I try to always buy the best of any particular tool. In all of them none are considered "Contractor Grade". Personal experiance is that its a marketing ploy directed at DIYers. Ask on this board about any tool you might be interested in and I'll bet you"ll receive the best info anywhere. Could get heated though. Good luck,Bill Swales
*Opinions are always welcome.This is what makes this such a great site! Everyone is willing to give their opinions, share their knowledge, scream a little, and just plain have some fun.James DuHamel
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Thanks for the comments, everyone. I had a suspicion that "Contractor Grade" did not mean anything real.
Being a DIYer, I try to buy tools that will do a homeowner's job and not cost my lungs.
Should I throw some gasoline on the fire, and say "Harbor Freight!??"
Thanks again. I wish i had come to this site a long time ago.
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Many of the "homeowner" level tools will also not work well and p*ss you off. Be selective. It makes no sense, for example, to get a cheap circular saw, the workhorse of carpentry. (I'm talking under $60 ... a real pro's saw would clear $100.) Same for cheap drills.
*Hilti,bosch,milwaukee,(sawzalls,drills)fein(sanders),dewalt for their cordless tools and compound saws,porter cable routers, it's a toss up between a bosch and dewalt jigsaw,they both cut excellent,emglo compressors,senco nailers, for durability and ease and ability of repair,target or m/k wetsaws.These are a few of the brands I have had good results with. Stay away from crapsmen,ryobi,blackened pecker,harbor freight knockoffs,and any other brand you never heard of. And just because a company has been around for a long time doesn't mean much, black and decker has been around for years,and once they found the DIY niche they never looked back, and their tools are bunk.Look at the tools the pro's use. If a guy showed up to work with a woodhawk circular saw and said he was a carpenter,he'd be eating his lunch in his truck on the way home.
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Interesting you should say DeWalt is so good and Black & Decker is junk. Visit a B&D production facility and you will see both products coming off the same line until it's time to put on the case. Same item , different package.
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They are the same company, but I don't think the products are that similar. DeWalt is a good example of a company successfully reinventing itself -- and distancing itself from a DIY-soiled brandname.
*I'm gonna try something new and answer the original question. When I see "cotractor grade" I think of a rugged tool that is built tough to withstand daily use - heavier bearings and stouter casework on an armatured tool for example, maybe stouter switches. These tools probably weigh more and have more features like bevel adjustments beyond 45 degrees (how come there's no key stroke for "degree"?) on a circular saw, or multiple depth stops on a plunge router. "Contractor Grade" should mean tools built for use by professionals, who depend on tools and consider them investments.
*Somewhere in the late seventies, Black and Decker bought Dewalt. For many years Black and Decker was THE tool manufacturer for portable power tools. They produced about 4 different lines of tools, each color coded. They had light gray for their professional grade of tools, kind of a burnt orange look for the homeowner line, green for the middle of the road line, and black for the hobbyist.They wanted to change the way their pro line of tools was made, marketed, and sold, so they purchased Dewalt and never looked back. And most of them are made in the same factories as Black and Decker labels, but so are some of the Craftsman homeowner line of tools.As far as the statement about "finding the do it yourself niche and never looking back", they actually invented the first line of power tools for the PROFESSIONAL. I have a picture of a drill from 1906 made by Black and Decker. Be glad you don't have to lug that sucker around. It's huge!Tools are like any other product. The companies are looking for ways to market their product. Places like Home Depot, Lowe's, now Sears, etc... have become a great place for these companies to turn some extra sales. They are finding that more and more homeowners are willing to pay a little more for a better quality of tool. You still will not see the true Industrial grade tools in these places, but the tools, as a whole, are improving. They have to. The competition is getting fierce.With the tool companies buying up each other like crazy, there's no telling who owns what, and next year there's no telling who will buy out their competition.Just a thought...James DuHamel
*While I understand Dewalt and Black and Decker are the same company,that is where the similarities end. I've yet to see a 14 volt Black and Decker screw gun (do they make one?)with the same motor and torque as a Dewalt 14 volt.Rebadging tools is nothing new, but junk in is junk out .As my dad used to say, "You can't polish a turd"-Dad.
*LOL reinhard!
*A good "contractor" tool -- the Stanley Utility knife you can open without a screwdriver. Why didn't anyone think of this earlier???Jim: °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° (special keystroke on the Mac, shift-option-8 -- I'm sure some impossible-to-remember ALT+(number) sequence will do it on a PC).I did just what Jim recommended and chatted with the tool rental guy about their experiences with different brand. Interesting, and I was pleased he named a bunch of tools I own!
*You all got Black & Decker and Dewalt a little mixed-up. Yes B&D was a respected name - their Holegun was unmatched for durability in industrial environments. B&D bought Dewalt from AMF in the 60's - their only line was radial arm saws. B&D immdiately began to cheapen the saw - hot-rolled steel arms instead of cast steel and minimized the Dewalt name in deference to the large B&D logo. Eventually, B&D ran the tool into the ground - no creativity, no new products.At about the same time Nolan Archibald, B&D's CEO made a major corporate purchase that almost bankrupted them (Emhart, a holding company with names like True-Temper, Price Pfister, etc.). At the same time B&D was struggling with the GE home appliance line they has purchased and were proceeding to run it into the ground (they finally sold it). B&D marketers needed a magic bullet to take the company back to profitability - so they dusted off the Dewalt name. Orignally the Dewalt and B&D Industrial tools were the same. Not anymore. B&D's Industrial line is gone; the only industrial tools are the Dewalt line and they have been re-engineered to reduce costs. For examle, gone is the triple gear reduction 3/8 Holegun; in its place is a 2 gear DeWalt drill with more motor windings (cheaper than a third gear)that is supposed to have more torque than the old holegun. But will the motor hold up under the stress? All extra heavy duty machines are geared down so the motor can keep up its RPM's to stay cool and efficient. Not so with the DeWalt which will struggle to do the job.Very quietly in the Baltimore area industrial distributors have bought up the remaining inventories of the better made B&D machines for their clients while the average tool user being the lemming that he/she is are buying the cheapened, less durable DeWalts because of the glitz merchandising. When you look very objectively at the major manufacturers, B&D has only one creditable original tool, the portable drill. all the other tools were invented by others - belt sander - Porter Cable; recipricating saw - Milwaukee, etc. And to boot, B&D came out with their industrial battery drill in the early 60's yet it took them over 30 years to perfect it! They're real terror with innovation!B&D has moved from a major player in tools to a mass marketer of consumer products. They could care less whether a DIY or a builder buys Dewalt - they're interested in saving their company. On the other hand, Bosch, Porter Cable, Hilti, Milwaukee, Metabo, etc. continue to make good industrial grade tools and that's their whole line. They're in it for the long haul.
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I have two Ryobi tools - their original 10" portable planer and their angle grinder - both of which are durable and well-made. Ryobi seems to intelligently redesign tools to make them accessible to wider market without losing sight of performance. Don't include them with the Taiwan knockoffs.
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Vince, I'll have to agree with everyone, contractor grade is aploy to get homeowners and do it yourselfers to buy tools.
however I'll have to disagree with Mr Draganic on Skill tools I have owned a Skill wormdrive for about 15 years and it has survived rain, sleet, snow, Me, and the occasional tumble off the roof. (only happened once, tumbled down 20 ft of skip sheathing and fell 20ft to the ground) and still runs fine today.
Steve
*Skil invented the worm drive saw (circa 1924) and have been making the best rated worm drive saw every since. I have found that people who didn't care for them much, or had trouble with them usually bought one of the lighter weight, cheaper versions. I have never had a use for one. I do not do a whole lot of repetitive framing cuts, and the darn things weigh so much.Just a thought...James DuHamel
*It seems to be a common practice ....... buying a respected brand name, milking it for all it is worth and running it into the ground. The examples are endless .....Rockwell(PC) till Pentair bought them, AMF and Harley Davidson, Packard Bell (computers)...... even NEC couldn't save them. I think Pentair/Delta is on the same road because of trying to appeal to the low end of the market.
*I have to admit that I have the el-cheapo Delta 10" CM saw and have never seen a better value for the dollar. It was something like $160, bought when i had no idea how much I'd be using it. When it dies I'll upgrade because I want to do more (maybe a slider), but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to a low-end user. When I blew up the reduction gear (um, I think maybe when I lost control of a small piece -- don't try this at home) the not-so-close repair shop shipped me a new one gratis.Hoping to do them a good turn ... ad
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That is a great quote. Sounds like something my Dad would say. Thanks for the laughs.
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If it is a tool it might be better than average but probably isn't. If it is material it is probably worse than average.
*My brother's experience has been the opposite of yours ....... the miter saw was poorly made, we had to file the slots out in the fence in order to get enough adjustment for a square cut. The planer will not stay in adjustment ( I've gotten pretty good at making them), screws have fallen out (holes not fully tapped). I've used older versions of the planer which I believe was made by Invicta in Brazil ......seemed like a better machine. Ditto your comments on Delta service and parts ..... it IS good.
*I also have a Delta CM. It's fine for what I do. I only do tight, stain grade trim a couple of times a year and my miter saw sits on a shelf in my shop most of the time.I had the blade guard break but got a new, redesigned one shipped to me next day for free.I've also had the same problem with the screws...in the saw handle. I had to do ALOT of playing to get it to cut square but as long as I'm gentle with it, it's not a bad saw. I think the "right" tool depends alot on how much you will use it. I do very little tile so the "right" tile saw for me is a rented one. I do alot of carports and garages so the "right" saw is a skill worm drive. If I was a trim carpenter, the "right" framing saw would be alot smaller and lighter.I can't wait until someone invents the "right" cordless drill. I upgraded to the 18V dewalt and now there's a 24V model. I need more power and more time between charges. Why not put a little nuclear reactor on these things. I'd change the control rods regularly.
*Vince- DO YOUR HOMEWORK! About a year ago I took a part time gig as a buyer for a major home improvement warehouse that delt with many major brands of tools (full spectrum) and what I found to be true was a lot of tool makers use the same stuff with different packaging. Example- Ryobi "contractor series" drills use the same motor as a DeWalt (18v) but in the same breath I'll tell you to watch out for "contractor grade". Some of the stuff was some marketing guys idea to paint stuff yellow and try to sell it as an upgraded version of the "homeowner series" or "DIY series", when in reality he's(she's) never layed eyes on a jobsite let alone worked with a hammer. Go to your local building site and see what there using, a hundred thousand guys using the same product cant be wrong. It would kill me to sit in these meetings listening to some of the crap they were feeding (i don't work there any longer) and telling you to tell the customer. HOMEWORK,HOMEWORK,HOMEWORK.
*Ryan Cruzan-the drill to end your sorrows , Bosch 24v, end of story, best I've ever used. Looooooong run time and enough power to break your wrist!
*Ed:Sorry for the late response but I use a ""Contractor Grade" Stanley 25' tape" too. You are right - doesn't seem any better - except one thing!! Gauranteed for life! I have returned mine no less than 4 times to Home Cheapo for a new shiney one! I LOVE it!
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Don't be bothered by thoes fancy words. I have 2 Skil cicular saws, model 5150 ($40) and HD77M ($170). If you read what they said, you are going no where. But you only need to use these 2 saws once to know they are two different animals.
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I'm new to this terrific site, so please be gentle.
I see many adds that refer to tools, especially power tools as "Contractor Grade." What does that mean? Are they extra rugged? Cheap? What grades of tools are above and below?
Great site. I just spent a few hours reading many threads. Very informative. lots of fun, too.
Vince