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LRZ, THE CONTRACT IS NOT BINKING UNTIL SIGNED BY BOTH PARTIES UNDER NO DURESS, AT LEAST IN CALIFORNIA. I AM PRETTY SURE THAT IT IS THE SAME IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS. ANY CHANGES THAT ARE HAND WRITTEN OR ARE NOT OTHERWISE OBVIOUSLY PART OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT HAVE TO BE INITIALED BY BOTH PARTIES. ANY CHANGES SHOULD PROBABLY BE NOTED ON AN OFFICIAL CHANGE ORDER SHEET TO AVOID CONFUSION. IN OTHER WORDS I WOULD TELL THEM WHERE THEY COULD PUT THEIR MODIFIED CONTRACT, THEY HAVE NOT A LEG TO STAND ON. IT IS NOT UNLIKE YOU EDITING THE CONTRACT WHEN YOU LEASE A CAR, IS THE DEALER RESPONSIABLE FOR THE CHANGES YOU MADE TO THE CONTRACT? NOT LIKELY. WELL GOOD LUCK. ( sorry about the capatial letters, i know its hard on the eyes just realized i was in uppercase letters, habit from contract writing (hehehe))
//JAY
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LRZ, THE CONTRACT IS NOT BINKING UNTIL SIGNED BY BOTH PARTIES UNDER NO DURESS, AT LEAST IN CALIFORNIA. I AM PRETTY SURE THAT IT IS THE SAME IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS. ANY CHANGES THAT ARE HAND WRITTEN OR ARE NOT OTHERWISE OBVIOUSLY PART OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT HAVE TO BE INITIALED BY BOTH PARTIES. ANY CHANGES SHOULD PROBABLY BE NOTED ON AN OFFICIAL CHANGE ORDER SHEET TO AVOID CONFUSION. IN OTHER WORDS I WOULD TELL THEM WHERE THEY COULD PUT THEIR MODIFIED CONTRACT, THEY HAVE NOT A LEG TO STAND ON. IT IS NOT UNLIKE YOU EDITING THE CONTRACT WHEN YOU LEASE A CAR, IS THE DEALER RESPONSIABLE FOR THE CHANGES YOU MADE TO THE CONTRACT? NOT LIKELY. WELL GOOD LUCK. ( sorry about the capatial letters, i know its hard on the eyes just realized i was in uppercase letters, habit from contract writing (hehehe))
//JAY
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"Not binking"? :)
Easy: your proposal was an offer that they could accept or reject
without modification. By returning it with changes, even if signed,
it became the client's non-binding counteroffer; it would now be
YOUR choice whether to proceed under the altered contract.
(Suggestion: Don't.)
My advice is as a breaktimer and not legal representation. State
and local law vary, so if it God forbid looks like this is going to
become a legal action consult an attorney in your jurisdiction.
Some people are indeed crazy enough to take it that far. Sorry,
you dug up a nut.
Be practical, though, they can cause problems harassing you, so
rather than starting a mini-war with them going off about legal
mumbo-jumbo I'd suggest calling back, remaining polite but firm
that you do not wish to proceed with the business relationship
(don't call it a contract, and tell him it's not one if he insists
otherwise). Return the deposit if any. Do anything you can to get
this nut to go away and bug someone else! I would report him
for harassment or send a cease-and-desist letter if it gets really
bad. But don't sink to his level.
*andrew,
View Image © 1999-2000"More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly." Woody Allen
*Hey, thanks for the replies! This is sort of a reality validation for me. By the way, I did not mention that the total cost of this job was under $500.00. With all the hassles the trades present, it sometimes seems the benefits are outweighed...Best,LRZ.
*Glad you love them, but I think you misunderstand their purpose: My disclaimer is there because I know more about law than you do. Practice varies significantly by locale, thus there is no universal answer to a given question. That's why most states administer their own bar exam and require separate admission to the bar. I don't want anyone to rely on anything short of the best advice, that of a locally practicing attorney.There is an important analogy for builders here: if someone were to post negligent construction advice that led to a loss, they too could be held liable. Taunton, as the conduit of these discussions, is aware of the law and so includes an indemnification clause in their content policy:>INDEMNIFICATION: You agree to indemnify the Site producer and its employees, agents, and representatives, and to hold them harmless, from any and all claims and liabilities (including attorneys fees) which may arise from your submissions, from your unauthorized use of material obtained through the Site, or from your breach of these rules, or from any such acts through your account. You further agree that the Site provider is not responsible, and shall have no liability to you, with respect to any material posted by others. ... >DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: THE SITE PROVIDED "AS IS", AND THE SITE PROVIDER HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTIES OF ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, MERCHANTABILITY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Etc.
*A footnote -- I almost replied "no contract," but figured someone might say you had a separate oral contract. The written proposal would be evicdence that you intended to spell out the agreement in writing, but if the client had somehow relied to their detriment on your representations..... The point is, these legal things can get complicated, be careful.Yeah, a downside of working for the public is being exposed to every loon who owns a house.
*Some conflicting opinions here! Rather than guild the lily, let us tak e a "fer instance": You submit a proposal, said form is returned to you unsigned, no deposit is received. Do you begin work?-LRZ.
*Fusco, great choice of quotes. Andrew, don't worry, I understand the disclaimer. It's hard to help without somebody getting the wrong idea.And LRZ, no signature, no contract. If acceptance requires a deposit, no deposit, no contract.Same disclaimer.SHG
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Yes,I know- this isn't a legal assistance site... BUT:
I recently had a prospective customer return a proposal to me with several additions/changes I was not consulted about which increased the scope of the project,while the price remains the same, and specified start and end dates that just aren't realistic. Also, the proposal was returned UNSIGNED by the home owner. Now, I'm receiving messages that I will be reported to the Attorney General,the IRS,etc. if I do not perform the work for substantially less than the original quote. Yes, I should have hung up the phone when I heard "Is it cheaper if we pay cash?" (No.)
So, now I'm wondering if I have a contractual obligation here?Hard to believe but in 16 years, this is a first! Any insight appreciated, all commiseration accepted. LRZ.