Replies

1. 
   nathan_wegemer | Jun 05, 2001 10:07pm | #1

   *
   that green patina is probably 10 years or more away, depending on the atmospheric conditions in your area. My understanding is 60 to 70 years for the full process to occur naturally.

   The initial tarnish film will be brownish, which will act as a protective coating against further oxidation. It is probable that the railings themselves will deteriorate before the copper begins to bleed onto the lower surfaces...

   I have read that beeswax over a lacquer finish has been done. This was done after a artificial patina was developed. I would imagine burnishing of the new copper rod would be necessary to give the lacquer something to bite into.

   The American Brass Company published an article on coloring and preserving copper, brass and bronze. It was probably done 50 years ago, or so. They are (were) located in Waterbury, Connecticut.

   The copy I have of it I picked up at Alaskan Copper and Brass Co., Seattle WA. They are a significant supplier of all types of metals.

1. 
   Ryan_C | Jun 05, 2001 11:02pm | #2

   *You can polyurethane copper to keep it looking copper. But of course, the polyurethane needs to be maintained/redone once in a while too.

1. 
   Chris_Jordan | Jun 06, 2001 03:31am | #3

   *Anyone know of a supplier selling copper fittings to assist turning copper pipe into railing, etc? Thinking of 1 1/2" copper pipe as railing, but not sure how to attach it to the wooden railing. It would be nice to put it at a lower height for the kiddies to exit the deck.I have seen copper deck rails, very sharp. Simple copper pipe from the supply store.

1. 
   Thaddeus_Raven | Jun 06, 2001 04:30pm | #4

   *Chris-Two things come to mind. Not that mounted tubing will ring like a wind chime, but it will have a hollow clink when tapped or struck. Also, even the blue spec. pipe dents and bends relatively easily. So the small concern is the patina or vertigris(sp?). The big concern is that in short order it will look beat-up and cheap. I'd steal a solution from Lexus. Their light-weight automotive structural tubing is filled with foam which makes the tube more rigid and deadens sound transmission. Effectively, you create a solid rod from the tubing. Test a few pipes injected with aerosol insulating foam. Also, whenever I have copper pipe exposed (yes, even in closets) I twist the wire bristle cleaning ring used to prep for soldering down the entire length of pipe to give it a burnished look. Just coat the pipe with good car wax periodically. It will still oxidize but will do so more evenly and not get all blotchy with fingerprints. Good luck, let us know how the project works out.

1. 
   Ann_Berg | Jun 06, 2001 05:44pm | #5

   *Our lake cabin has a plain old 8'x14'deck on the back which we designed and built with vertical copper balusters. We used general purpose copper water pipe for these, and they turned out great. Not only do we get all sorts of compliments on the appearance of the deck, but we have had two people take pictures of the deck, and a neighbor asked if they could duplicate the copper balusters on a deck they are going to build. They are not only interesting in appearance, but allow a lot of visibility. They were also cheaper than regular balusters. I would send a picture, but I am technologically challenged. I will try to get a co-worker to help me out on this later, if you would like to see a picture. We followed a plan in the Sunset Deck Book (sort of, in a condensed way - like our deck is about 3,000,000 square feet smaller, does not have built in couches or planters, missing the 4 hot tubs, with at least 5 fewer elevations and about 748 fewer stairs. ) I still see this deck book (it is the largest Sunset Mag. deck book) in a variety of book stores for the same low price of about $19.95. We followed the actual plan of the rails except for a few detail pieces, and it is a very beautiful rail plan which is simple, yet elegant. Right now, we're letting the balusters turn color at the normal rate, but actually, it stays "copper looking" for quite a while if you don't mess around with it too much. Sometimes we discuss putting it back to it's original copper, but we haven't so far. Some pointers: * clean the copper with steel wool before putting the finish on, but do NOT do this on a cedar deck. The little steel wool "bits" will discolor cedar. Do this away from a cedar deck and wipe the steel wool junk off thoroughly before installing the balusters. * if the balusters are vertical, drill a little hole totally through the bottom rail to let water and moisture drain out the bottom. * If you're clever, you can design the balusters to make good use of the standard 10' length, so you don't have a lot left over. We did not do this, because we followed the design exactly, so we ended up with large, unusable lengths of copper pipe. This was a problem for us, but not for our three boys, who fashioned a temporary blacksmith shop next to the campfire, and made many non-functional pieces of copper "stuff" resembling swords and armoured accessories. I am continually amazed at the inventive nature of the male brain!

2. 
   Pete_Draganic | Jun 06, 2001 08:17pm | #6

   *I've seen similar ballusters composed of pipes and wood. Basically they are top and bottom wood rails bored to accept the pipes vertically.Another good idea to maintain visibility is to forget about ballusters and instead run stainless cable through your posts at every 6 inches or so horizontally. very clean and unobstructive.Pete

3. 
   CaseyR_ | Jun 06, 2001 08:32pm | #7

   *Pete -I like the looks of the stainless steel cables. The local college bookstore has them that are tightened with threaded pieces that are swaged onto the end of the cables. The cable was then tightened with chromed acorn nuts on the end of the threaded pieces.I did a quick Internet search but didn't find a mail order source showing the swaged threaded rod pieces. Do you have sources for these? (I assume that the places that list the stainless steel cable would have them, but finding that out would require me to actually communicate with some vendors... )

4. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Jun 06, 2001 08:39pm | #8

   *CaseyDo a google search on "cable railing" and you will find several vendors of whole systems.

5. 
   wedgehead | Jun 07, 2001 05:33am | #9

   *I recall that stuff being available at marine supply houses.

6. 
   nathan_wegemer | Jun 07, 2001 06:50am | #10

   *Here is Alaskan's web site. If you need metal, here is where to find it. Superbly knowledgeable staff, too.http://www.alascop.com/

7. 
   Pete_Draganic | Jun 07, 2001 09:02pm | #11

   *Casey,I would assume that any decent hardware store would carry them as well as stainless cable at most likely a fraction the cost of someone selling "rail systems".Pete

8. 
   Ann_Berg | Jun 08, 2001 02:39am | #12

   *A helpful friend has found a way to post our deck rail pictures - hope you find these useful. A couple other things I thought of. There is a liquid that turns copper into a green patina instantly. We decided against it because it was runny and kind of junky looking. As of now the copper hasn't stained the deck just left plain, and it is starting to turn green in spots, but is mostly black. I've heard there are some salts and chemicals that can help it turn color more quickly.

9. 
   Ann_Berg | Jun 08, 2001 02:39am | #13

   *Here's the second picture.

10. 
    CaseyR_ | Jun 08, 2001 02:46am | #14

    *Ann - the slope of the deck looks like it would certainly prevent puddling...:)There have been numerous past threads on breaktime about rapidly aging copper - from horse urine to a variety of other chemicals. Do a search and you should find several threads, at least one of which has a pretty complete discussion of the processes.

11. 
    L._Siders | Jun 08, 2001 03:30am | #15

    *Ann< Thats a very nice deck. Simple lines & beautiful.

12. 
    Tom_Moller | Jun 08, 2001 06:40am | #16

    *I am building a deck with "copper" ballusters right now. Went through the same exercise. Bottom line:You can waste a lot of time and money on different chemicals to get the blue-green color, but you have no guarantee that it will stay that way unless your local atmospheric conditions are ideal. You can use paint - two or three colors dabbed on with a sponge and blended. Practice a while until you get the results you want.That said, the painted metal doesn't really need to be copper. Galvanized steel water pipe may be more durable.

13. 
    Chris_Haag | Jun 08, 2001 08:53pm | #17

    *There is a product called "patina" that will work. You can but it at stained glass supply houses.

14. 
    Ann_Berg | Jun 08, 2001 09:38pm | #18

    *Thanks for your compliment. It is really beautiful later in the summer when the bee balm that surrounds the deck is in bloom. Then, the deck looks like it is "floating" on flowers, and it is surrounded by finches and hummingbirds, as well. Unfortunately, one of the pillars has "heaved" and needs to be fixed. I posted about this a couple of months ago. Sad, but we've learned that anything can heave in a very cold climate!

2. 
   Chris_Haag | Jun 08, 2001 09:38pm | #19

   *
   Has anyone had experience with using copper tubing for railing ballisters on a deck? I love the look but am concerned about the green patina running onto anything below the deck. Is there a way to treat the copper to maintain the copper color? Any leads on a good supplier? Thanks!