Replies

1. 
   Jim_K_ | Apr 13, 2000 12:25am | #1

   *
   These articles seem like copper industry propoganda, with comparison charts that aren't meaningful. For example, it lists an advantage of copper as supporting unlimited temperatures, while PEX supports temp of _only_ 140-200. But radiant floor applications only use temps in the 90-100 range, so there's no real advantage to be had. The other comparisons are similarly stacked, and quite suspect.

   We just installed >6,000 ft of PEX w/ oxygen diffusion barrier and I didn't read anything here that would have made us reconsider. I can't argue whether PEX or copper is superior, but the silly way they made their arguments made me wonder about their conclusions.

1. 
   Chris_DeLucchi | Apr 15, 2000 05:19pm | #2

   *Jim,I am sure you are right about the Copper Making a "Comeback" in Radiant Heating Applications article from the Copper and Brass industry organization, but the Anderson article gave me the most reason to reconsider.

1. 
   Jim_K_ | Apr 15, 2000 09:03pm | #3

   *The thing about the Anderson article is that they list all the cons of PEX based on the use of PEX w/o an oxygen diffusion barrier. Yet no quality company would sell that to you. Look at the Wirsbo site--for floor systems they will _only_ install he-PEX. So the basic premise of the essay is flawed. FWIW, we were never told that PEX would be cheaper than copper, and economy of installation was never promoted (other than that I could lay the tubing myself as long as I followed the engineering plan). And PEX w/o diffusion barrier was _never_ an option. In fact, we were told that the install cost would be higher than for many alternative systems, but that the payback would be in comfort and efficiency and low maintenance. Our experience with Wirsbo and our HVAC contractor was practically opposite of what Anderson describes. Wherein lies the truth?Also, one of our 3 floors was an 8" elevated slab, with rebar mats at the top and bottom allowing only 4" in the middle for the tube. I can't _imagine_ having had to snake 3,200 ft of copper through this. The PEX is more flexible and that was brutal enough. And I'd really worry about copper at expansion joints, something Anderson did mention.

1. 
   Ron_Schroeder | Jun 22, 2000 05:37pm | #4

   *I did decide to use copper on a small bathroom job and would do it again unless the tubing was to be in a pour. It was real quick and easy. I would use copper for up to 12 x 12 foot below floor installations.

1. 
   Mongo_ | Jul 08, 2000 07:07am | #5

   *In the Anderson article there is no mention of Cross-linked polyethylene tubing. Plain old PE is mentioned, along with PB and Rubber...but no PEX. Based on the slant of the article, I doubt that the exclusion of the "X" it was an oversight, or that they were indeed referring to PEX when writing just "PE". PEX is far superior to PE. The inclusion of PB and rubber, to me, is a joke. It's the equivalent of comparing copper to lead pipe in a comparison of materials used in a domestic water supply system. They should have been tossed out in the first sentence of the article, with the remainder of the article being a straight-up comparison of Cu vs PEX. But then again...the article is a marketing tool for the CU folk.Copper is a great material, a blessing to use. However, in residential RFH, I do think PEX is superior.

2. 
   Cliff._Johnston | Aug 13, 2000 05:55pm | #6

   *Concrete will eventually cause copper to corrode. Many of the radiant heat installations done back in the 1960's are failing or have failed because of the copper tubing corroding.My last house flooded out once. It turned out to be a copper line failure where it came through the concrete slab. Corroded. What a mess! The insurance adjuster was very understanding, and we came out OK financially (no great loss), but it certainly was a miserable inconvenience.My advice - go synthetic. There are some good materials out there with decent track records.Cliff.

3. 
   The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Aug 14, 2000 04:43pm | #7

   *Chris...I just read the Anderson article....It's baloney marketing hyperbole!near the stream,aj

2. 
   Chris_DeLucchi | Aug 14, 2000 04:43pm | #8

   *
   I have run across two articles on the Web, Copper Making a "Comeback" in Radiant Heating Applications and Anderson Distribution Tubing Comparison, that is making me reconsider using Copper tubing for hydronic radiant heat applications. Does anyone have thoughts on Copper vs PEX in Concrete floors?