I received a weathervane for a gift. I plan to extend it above my roof by using copper piping.
-What can I use to polish up the piping and to keep it looking nice?
-What is the best way to attach this to my chimney?
Rick
I received a weathervane for a gift. I plan to extend it above my roof by using copper piping.
-What can I use to polish up the piping and to keep it looking nice?
-What is the best way to attach this to my chimney?
Rick
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Replies
Greetings rick, Welcome to Breaktime.
This post to your question will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones eye that can help you with advice.
Cheers
why? part of the charm of copper is the softness of the look of weathered copper..
Maybe you're an old sailor that needs all brass to be shiney and can't stand to see anything weathered.. I knew a boatswainsmate in the navy like that, he seriously needed all the brass and copper shined up. He'd work his poor crew at it day in and day out and he had that old world war two aircraft carrier looking great! The day they hauled it off to the mothball fleet everything was brite and shney,.. yet many a sailor wasted his whole tour doing nothing but polishing brass.
The look is fine if you can devote the time into it but maybe not the greatest priority?
You made a pretty intelligent guess. I am going to retire from the USN this summer. Back in the engine-room, everything had to be shiny; especially the label plates.
I think I will take your advice and just put it up as it is. If it weathers green, so be it.
Thanks,
EMC/SS Rick
greencu who posts here is a copper genius and a roofer. He and stephen hazlett, a good roofer with brains should be able to improve on the usual method of the adjustible bracket and long screws and roof goop. If you have to mount to the chimney, use TV antenna stand offs (strapped around the chimney) and hold the bottom of the pipe up off the roof.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
The best advice would be to give up on trying to keep the copper shiny, accept that it will over the years go from a brown patina to green. As for mounting it to the chimney, see if the maker of the weathervane has the hardware for sale.
-- J.S.
Brasso is the classic polish. It works great. If you don't want to buy a whole can, then tomato sauce works well, too.
It's very difficult to prevent the shine from going away in the weather. Nearly any clear coating will deteriorate in time, and it will be quite uneven. Lacquer is the standard clear coating for brass if you want to try something.
I used automotive clear coat to keep part of my copper from oxidizing. Won't last forever but a whole lot longer than lacquer. 3 yrs so far and working fine.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hey Tom,
I know little or nothing about keeping copper shiney ( it's always seemed to me to be like trying to clean the sand off of the beach ), but I'm curious about what will happen when the clear coat fails. Does it just start to allow the copper to turn or does it get patchy? I've seen a copper bay roof ( looked like a factory built unit ) that stayed shiney for several years and then suddenly began to look all blotchy and stayed like that for quite a while until starting to mellow. Hope your new year is good.
I invented weather veins.
Hi guy,
What I was trying to preserve was the splotches on the copper sheets left outside in the rain. Big irregular black things, I assume from the manufacturing oils reacting with the rain, that I carefully selected for the lower parts of our doors. Quite possibly you've never encountered them if you don't leave your material sitting around for months like I do. Actually had a guest last week ask which artist I'd hired to get the effect.
I tried it 'cause I had it, leftover from spraying DW's van. Figured I had little to lose. No idea what I'll do when it starts to fail. On vehicles the clear coat lasts 10-15 yrs. My '85 Wagoneer just started to peel 2 yrs ago. Seems to stick to the copper just fine.
New year is fine, no snow or ice to date, except my buddy with the standing seam tools flaked out on me totally. I'm looking for a set now. Just missed on one, sold for $100! Friend of a friend who's trying to buy them back and sell them to me. I haven't been able to get any suppliers around here to even FAX me pictures from their catalogs. I expect it's the same thing there, lots of names for the same tool and you don't know what anybody's talking about until you see it. PITA [Of course it would also help if I knew what I was talking about.]
Hope your year goes better than your last one ended (with that partial roof that blew off). Going to be using LOTS of cleats when I finally get the tools. And figure out how to transition from copper to those translucent panels that are 2 3/4" thick. Gotta have fun, right? Pictures to come when I finally get the tools. Roof's ready to go.
If you've got weathered veins, it might be roto-rooter time... PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
VaTom -- pretty door
Thank you. Actually a door-in-a-door. Inner (small) one is 48"x86". Outer is large enough for my tractor. Long story...PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Here's what I use for standing seam. 1st tool:
http://www.nabocker.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=157
2nd tool:
http://www.nabocker.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=400
You can get by with only the 2nd tool, using hand tongs for the first closure. They're a lot easier to use than kickers. They also make a standup set, but I've never used them.
http://www.nabocker.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=324
http://www.nabocker.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=330
figure out how to transition from copper to those translucent panels that are 2 3/4" thick
Are the panels going above, below or beside the copper? I've done a roof that used similar panels, but not as thick. The center section is flat seam copper and the triangles at the left and right are the panels. I'm working on a project with the owner of this house now. I can't remember the exact detail we used at the transistion, but he probably can. It's several years old with no leaks. Just had a wicked ice storm on it last week.
Thank you, very helpful. Duane tried to explain what you had, but having never seen any, I didn't have a clue.
The only seamers I've used followed pans formed by tongs on site. Monday morning I did accompany a different friend, who offered to share the cost of seamers with me, to a large roofing co. where the manager offered to form pans for me from my coils. I was further confused as I hadn't seen the seamers required, until now.
In trying to round up some seamers I had a conversation with the guy in charge of roofing at U of Va here. He said they had a pair of stompers for the really old roofs but couldn't loan them to me, state property. Well, you already knew I didn't know what I was doing, but was doing it anyway. <G>
The panels will mostly be above the copper but, as the building was already there when I happened into the panels and they don't fit exactly right, there'll be a pan and a half on each side of the panels, going to the ridge. Hope that makes sense. Butyl is what Kalwall used to seal the panels to each other but after a conversation with the tech at Resource Conservation I bought rolls of EPDM weatherstripping. Both with the D air space, and without. I was hoping to figure out some way to get one or the other between the copper and the panels. Probably going to rivet the copper to the panels, at least on the panel sides, where the copper goes up to the ridge.
Poolhouse is the panels in their previous life. TeeMolding shows the sides of the panels. The flange sticking up went over the next lower panel. Very little held these panels down, and they spanned up to 9'. I'm spanning 4' with them. Copper goes on purlins, in spite of the roofing co. manager being extremely vocal about the necessity of plywood.
Ice storm, eh? You sure you don't want to over to mild Va for a little "vacation"?
Thanks for your help.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Was wondering how the progression was going. Good to see it moving forward.
Glad it ain't just sitting. ;o)
moth and rust corrupt... thieves break in and steal...
Ice storm, eh? You sure you don't want to over to mild Va for a little "vacation"?
Ah, KY weather. I've been working in shorts the last four days. It's cold today, but nearly 70 yesterday. Last Thurs it was 2 above. If I didn't have so much on my plate right now, I'd take you up on it.
I started out using "stompers" or "kickers", but it's much easier ( and more productive ) to do most of the forming in the shop and as little as possible on the roof. Plus a new set of kickers costs over $2000. Those blue and yellow tools cost about $500.00 for the pair and they're much easier to use on a step slope since you don't have to put your feet on them. You also don't have to manually knock the seam down between operations.
Copper goes on purlins, in spite of the roofing co. manager being extremely vocal about the necessity of plywood.
I'm with him. The purlins will telegraph thru the copper. If you're dead set on going ahead, I'd reduce the distance between the standing seams to keep the pans more rigid. What width pans are you planning to use? The maximum stock width I'd use on purlins would be 12" (netting 8.75" between seams) , where normally I use 24" stock (netting 20.75").
Riveting the copper to the panels sounds like a workable solution. I'd try to fabricate a "c" channel in the side adjoining copper pans to slip the panels and gasket into.
Have fun.
I'm with him. The purlins will telegraph thru the copper. If you're dead set on going ahead, I'd reduce the distance between the standing seams to keep the pans more rigid. What width pans are you planning to use? The maximum stock width I'd use on purlins would be 12" (netting 8.75" between seams) , where normally I use 24" stock (netting 20.75").
This is an aesthetic concern? My last (leak-free) attempt was over purlins that weren't even the same thickness. They telegraphed. Really didn't bother me.
This building is oak post&beam, dovetailed together. Oiled tulip poplar lap siding. There's something about using plywood here that strikes a discord with me. Pretty sure my coils are 20".
I thought the choice for the side adjoining copper was to attach to either the side or the tops of the panels. With almost nothing to rivet to on top, I was thinking sides. Not a great propostion, considering it's a joint with a flap pointing up. The panels were previously installed with a great deal of silicone to seal (?) against leaks. Unfortunately, Kalwall chose not to give me any advice.
I can make a copper C channel, but how does it attach, or seal, to the pan? A flange from the pan extending inside the C? Pitch is about 4/12. C channel was what Kalwall used (lower pitch)
, with abundant silicone.
A distinct possibility is a "real" roofer coming up to let me assist him. I have 2 guys interested, but neither has ventured a time projection. No idea how creative either of them might be. This has been in the works too long already. Rez isn't alone in his impatience.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I can make a copper C channel, but how does it attach, or seal, to the pan? A flange from the pan extending inside the C?
I'd actually form it into the pan.
There's something about using plywood here that strikes a discord with me. Pretty sure my coils are 20".
I understand. The other problem I see is when the copper droops slightly between the purlins, it'll rub on the edge of the purlin when it expands and contracts. Might cause premature failure, might not. I'd keep the space between the purlins as tight as possible.
I think we've discussed this before, but the coil stock we get here is not as hard as the sheet stock. 20" stock will net you about 16.75" between seams which is better than 20.75".
Keep us posted.
I'd actually form it into the pan.
That sounds better. Pretty sure there'll be somebody on site who has a lot more experience than me. I'll be very interested to see his recommendation.
I think we've discussed this before, but the coil stock we get here is not as hard as the sheet stock. 20" stock will net you about 16.75" between seams which is better than 20.75".
Yup. My coil stock is the same copper as sheets. I have a choice, hard or soft. Hard makes more sense to me. I'll have less telegraphing this time as I ran the purlins through a planer. I can't see any shiny places on the underside of the old roof. The other prediction was denting the copper by walking on it between the purlins, which wasn't a problem at all. Maybe if the spacing was wide. Mine isn't.
Sure have learned a lot the last 2 days. Your links helped immensely. Thanks. Pix when there's something here.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Wow! I realize they're speciality tools, but they don't look all that complex. Why so expensive?
jt8
Why so expensive?
Good question. My guesses: 1) Very limited market. When I bought a new pair of kickers 15 or so years ago, I had to wait nearly a year 'til the company did a casting. They apparently waited 'til they had x amount of orders and then did a run. 2) Well built- they don't wear out. The first pair of kickers I used was over 100 years old 20 years ago. The guy still uses them. The blue & yellow tools I own have been used almost daily for six years. No sign of significant wear. I've replaced several cordless drills in that amount of time.
I invented reverse obsolecence.
Is there any chance your copper weather vane will attract lightening?
Should it be grounded?
Rick,
Sorry for the hijack of your thread. I don't have any good answers to your questions, except I wouldn't mount the weathervane to your chimney. Pretty much anything coming out of the flues will discolor copper. The vanes I've installed came with a mounting bracket. Good luck.
I invented lowjacking.