Could you use pocket screws for decks?
Howdie everyone!
Did a search the other day on hidden deck fasteners. Came up with some really good info.
I was just curious……I bought a Kreg pocket hole jig about a month ago. I’ve used it a few times. Wished I had it when I built my aunt’s cedar deck.
So if you had the room to comfortably get under a deck’s floor joists, could you use a “suped up” pocket hole jig (or jigs) to get that hidden fastener look everyone is going for?
Clamp the pocket hole jig or jigs to joists after the deck boards are laid in the right spots. Drill your two holes up through the side of the PT 2 X joist stock. Unclamp the jigs, reclamp, drill, and so on. Then come back and screw up through the holes with preferably stainless square head pocket hole screws and you’re done.
I’d bet McFeely’s has those kinda screws.
Granted it would be a slow process. But, I’ve been impressed with Stan Foster’s use of the Kreg pocket hole jig.
Would such screws work for an ipe deck? I suppose you have to predrill for ipe when screwing down from the top, since it is so hard. Without predrilling, would pocket screws just snap off? Cedar, and redwood and the synthetics should be easier this way since they’re much softer.
Thanks,
Chills
Replies
yes pre drill and get a jig for it, and then if yo have a customer that wants that totla invisble deck fastener., charge for it, at least enough to cover your butt
Yep, time is money, right?!
Thanks for your reply.
Chills
"I suppose you have to predrill for ipe when screwing down from the
top, since it is so hard. Without predrilling, would pocket screws just snap off?"
Not sure exactly what you mean. If you're using the right dedicated bit for the pocket hole jig, the predrilling of the pilot hole is already done. But in ipe, I'd also grease the screw threads by dipping them in a smallish container of wax that you could keep in your toolbelt. Takes about two seconds. Buying ####toilet wax ring makes a really cheap source for this wax.
I'd be a little concerned that if you have to muscle the deck boards around to keep them in place and then screw them down......that PH screw could tilt in the hole and allow the board to at least somewhat return to its previous crooked position.
I know you can set the depth of the Kreg jig drill bit, but generally the recommended screw for the thickness of your stock would leave a predrilled hole in the joist, not the deck board. You'd have to secure the decking material from moving vertically. Maybe get a large friend to stay topside and move along with you?Additionally, to clarify: the narrow tip of the jig's drill bit would only make it through your joist. You can go deeper, but then the seat for the screw gets closer to the top of your joist, weakening the wood's holding strength. 6milessouth
Edited 7/29/2005 3:39 pm ET by 6milessouth
Unless the deck is way up off the ground I'd hate to be the poor schmuck underneath the deck! Wouldn't those ebtie's(the fasteners that you use a slot cutter on) things work a whole lot better?
Doug
even better is getting the decking milled with a groove in it...
personally I can't see a benifit to using pocket screws over any of the available hidden fastner systems.
Agree.
Give a guy a hammer and everything looks like nails. Sometime we all fall for that.
You are correct, sir.No pilot hole would be made, just the shank hole.I was apparently in too big of a hurry to get outta here when I posted. Duh on me. <G>Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
They don't make pocket hole screws that have the extra thick galvanizing required for pressure treated lumber. That leaves you with only stainless steel as an option, which they probably also don't make.
The company I work for has done a few decks in the last few months, and the way we do it is similar to the eb-tys, only a better product. We have 1/8" stainless steel biscuits custom made through a local guy, and use SS screw to go through a hole centered in the biscuit. We bevel and glue and seams, and if the boards are really crowned or tweaked, we predrill and screw up from underneath. Not quite hidden fastening, but no face nails. Turns out fabulous.
I have done an ipe deck (face-screwed), and it was necessary to predrill for each screw.
Young, poor, and eager to learn
Sounds like a good idea to me. I don't really like the look of Eb-Tys with the shiny stainless steel head showing between boards. I would be concerned with PT being splintery and pocket holes being close to the edge of the joist, you may have problems over time.
Mike
I don't see what would be the advantage of using pocket screws over just toe "nailing" the screws in - if that is what you wanted to do. And, it seems like pocked screws would be a colossal waste of time.
one of my concerns would be the compatibility of the pocket screws with the ACQ lumber- the ACQ seems to eat just about everything short of HD galv. or SS
edit to include: maybe pocket screws are available in SS; I don't know. But McFeeley's is the place to look for them.
Edited 7/30/2005 9:36 am ET by Shep
I guess I'll be the first one to say this sounds like a lousy idea. Deck joists are not the best material, and if you start driving tons of pocket screws thru them at an angle like that there's nothing to stop the edge from just splitting off. It will have very little strength. Add to that the fact that the screws are short and light gauge, they will not have the power to hold bowed pieces in place after you muscle them. I just do not see this as being a solution that will last very long.
If you want to work from underneath, use the Shadoe Track system.
Here ya go.
http://www.ipeclip.com/
Comes with 316 SS screws and no gluing is required to use these with ipe...as is recommended/required with Eb-Ty.
This means individual board repairs or replacement are much easier in the future if Ipeclip is installed with pre-kerfed stock.
Pocket screws I use for cabinets,etc come in two varieties, course thread for softer wood and fine thread for hardwoods. And they also have that self-drilling tip that seems to work pretty good. You could try to find some appropriate length screws with that self-drilling feature(preferably with fine thread) and try them out in a piece of ipe. You could check with Kreg and see what they offer, I know they sell supplies for their own stuff.
My Kreg jig drills for from I think 3/4" thick to 1 1/2" thick stock using different different thickness plates on the jig itself and I believe they recommend a 3" screw for 1 1/2" stock. Check the manual that came with the jig. When you use the jig with thicker stock I believe it drills the shaft hole farther from the edge than if you were drilling thinner stock. Therefore there should be plenty of "meat" left on your joists to avoid a problem later. Maybe alternate sides of the joist for each board(maybe too much of a pain).
Also, who says the screws have to be "pocket" screws. I've used sheetrock screws in a pinch and larger decking screws in thicker stock. If you can't find "pocket" screws, improvise.
Somewhere I saw an ad for a treated lumber that doesn't use copper at all and so is easier on fasteners. I think more borate or something. Don't remember where I saw it.
A lot of uncertainty in this post, sorry.
Hi again everyone!
Thanks for all of the replies!
I originally posted this question because I was curious about expanding the uses of the Kreg pocket hole jig, kind of a more bang for you buck deal.
I check McFeely's and from what I saw they don't have a SS or a HD galvanized screw, just a No'Cor-Rode screw, what ever that is.
Chills