I am building some new Plastic Laminate countertops, what is the best core material to use, what about moisture resistant type at sink ? Thanks.
Rob
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Standard is particle board, but not the junk you get at the big box stores. I purchase mine from a p-lam/cabinet supply company. I can get 25 1/2 x 8',10',12' sock as well as 48" (actual is 49") to 60" wide material of the same lengths.
3/4" veneer core plywood can also be used but is more expensive than particle board. If you use plywood you need to be sure that there are no voids in it or plan on spending extra time filling voids the edges of pieces you cut.
The moisture problem can occure with PB or plywood at the sink cutout. I seal those areas with polyuethane or a spar varnish if I do the cutout brfore an install. Don't ussually have the time if I do the cutout durring the install. Using a high quality grade caulk undre the sink rim is the best insurance most of the time. HO maint. after that is a crap shoot, just like anything else. You can't warrenty anything forever if the HO doesn't pay attention.
In knwn to be "gonna get wet" environments I have laminated bothe side of a top in the sink area(s). (think beauty salon) It helps but those raw edges still need a couple coats of sealler.
Dave
I have used exterior grade MDF for P-lam counter cores, and it worked well. Still sealed the edge, cheap insurance.
Ever tried MDO?
If I ever do another beauty salon and the budget fits, that's what I am going to try. Those sinks that they wash the ladies hair in get a lot of water on the tops surrounding them for close to 8 hrs a day.
Dave
I would think" Advantec" would be better than any kind of particle board.
This stuff has no voids and moisture does'nt seem to bother it much.
Mike Smith used Advantech in his Adverse Possession house. He might have some hands on tips to share.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I just put down 500+ sq.ft. of Advantec for an exterior porch surface (future dog runs on it). I primed both sides and the edges before installing and recoated the top after intallation. I haven't got the roof on yet, so it has been exposed to the weather for about a month. From what I am seeing it would not be suiteable for a counter top slab.
It is not as smooth as a cabinet grade PB, and does swell some when wet. There is also some areas of delamination (very small) of the top layer. Some of the larger flakes just puckered up when it rained for three days. I scraped them off and reapplied primer and it seems to be doing ok now.
I'm leary of using something like that under p-lam.
Dave
Dave, What's it look like out of the "box"? I can't remember if Mike stacked it or applied a 1x edge. That to me could be questionable-gluing to the edge. I've luckily not had problems with my own site built counters (most Industrial Flake substrate), but I often sub the tops and ONCE had swelling around the sink. This with even coating the sink cutout with caulk as I normally do. There was no evident leakage under the sink lip. I learned a lesson on that one. With the tile splash tite down on the top, removal wasn't real possible w/o tearout. Luckily they were able to do a repair on site w/o removal. Now, I hold the tile up an 1/8th to 3/16ths and caulk/grout the gap. Removal of the top is at least possible this way.............I think.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Plywood voids all warranties from the p/lam manufacturers, and AWI and AWMAC, the commercial cabinetmaking organisations, specifically recommend particle board or MDF in their quality standards manual. I think a revision specifically disallows plywood.
Particle board is the best overall choice, and I'd seal it or use exterior grade MDF if water was an issue. For the best job, the underside should be laminated with backer grade laminate also.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Out of the box, I would say the surface isn't smooth enough for me. I have never had anything telegraph through my p-lam tops, but I use WilsonArt alomost exclusively, and stay awy from any of the vertical grade stuff,... it sucks for telegraphing a bad slab.
The Advantech is T&G. I had to make some rips and end cuts, but was using a circular saw, so the quailty was way below what I gte with my TS. The stuff is heavey, i.e. dense, but not as much as BP. Maybe falls between rgular OSB and BP in both weight and flake density.
I need to cut a small piece and run a tonge on it for one corner. I'll let you know how it looks after a run through the TS.
Right now my gut says it not gonna be good enough for a p-lam edge, but I've been wrong before.
Dave
Hi Dave,No, I never tried MDO. Since it is veneer core pywood inside, it seems to me that it would still swell and rot if the edge got wet. The Medex exterior MDF is extremely resistant to swelling. I cut a small chunk, measured it with dial calipers and immersed it in a bucket of water for a week. When I took it out, it had grown only a few thousandths of an inch in all 3 directions. The stuff is used for outdoor routered signs, and should be painted; it will weather if left raw.Bill
MDO is what a buddy in the sign making business was ussing a few years ago. I've used it in a lot of exterior commercial applications. Almost 100% of the time it is primed, back primed and edge sealed. I don't ever recall a call back for anything, including paint failures, on any of them.
I have small piece in the shop I'll throw in a bucket of water for a week or so. I don't have dial calibers, but a couple of dry pieces and a good staight edge should give us a verdict.
I'll let you know in a week or so.
Dave