I’m a retard when it comes to mudding and taping drywall, so hopefully you all can help…
Question 1:
I have new drywall bumping into an old plaster wall which is at a 135 degree angle. How do I do the inside corner? Fiberglass or paper tape? Durabond 15 for the first coat? Do I spray a bonding agent on the old plaster, which is covered with latex paint?
Question 2:
At the top on bottoms of the walls (running drywall horizontally), I’ll have crown mold and baseboard. Should I cut the first sheet in half and have a full thickness square edge at the top and bottom, or can I leave the factory tapered edges at the top and bottom edges? The difference is two joints to mud and tape instead of one…
Thanks!
Replies
I suggest you prime the painted wall first, to get a good bond. If it is really flat, you can use paper tape, but I use mesh tape when joining to an old surface.
(Actually, I suggest you plaster, but that's just me).
No need to cut a sheet in half that I know of. No harm in having the tapered edge at the top or the bottom.
I think that joint would be a perfect candidate for straight-flex. It's tape, but thicker than the regular stuff and helps to "straighten" uneven corners. At least I suspect you'll have an uneven corner because of the plaster. I don't have any real confidence in fiberglass mesh and I don't use it except where I think that movement is extremely unlikely.
I agree with using primer. Durabond should work well, but I've even used regular joint compound.
You can leave the taper at the top and bottom, especially if they're going to be covered. If it wasn't going to be covered, you would need to spackle the taper otherwise it would show as a shadow line. Be aware the the baseboard will tend to tip inwards at the bottom because of the tape. A small shim or even a drywall screw partially driven in will fix this.
Another question:
My walls are 10'-0" tall. My drywall supplier only has 4'-6" wide sheets (I was hoping for 5'-0"). What if I took two 4'-6" sheets, centered them in the wall, and then added 6" drywall strips top and bottom? My baseboard altogether will be 7-1/4" tall and my crown will be about the same. That being the case, I wouldn't need to mud or tape the top and bottom joints, right? They'd be hidden behind trim and then I'd only have one joint to finish right in the middle of the wall.Am I a genius? Or just naive?BTW: Thanks for the advice regarding pre-priming the plaster.
Almost a genius, but no cigar.
There are at least 2 good reasons to tape/spackle all seams: air infiltration and fire code requirements. That doesn't mean you have to do a high quality job finishing those seams, but I don't think they will be covered enough to take a shortcut.
I would use 2 full 4' sheets starting at the top, rip a sheet in half and use the 2' piece at the bottom taper-to-taper. That way there's less waste and you won't have the taper at the floor where it can tip the baseboard.
If you have a baseboard bigger than six inches I'd say you are in good shape. For what it's worth you'll be going around caulking the tops of your baseboards to fill in the taper on the drywall, the way most walls are you'd be doing some caulking one way or another anyways. I've mated drywall to plaster before, what I did was used spray adhesive (3m superstick 77) and layered on two layers of fiberglass, I don't know that it's critical what tape you use.I scuffed up the paint on the plastered portion and taped with d.b.20 to set it and then just used 60 on the rest it's been two years, everything is holding just fine.
Re Q#2, hang your board so you have one horizontal joint in the center. You want to finish behind the crown for air sealing purposes. As far as the base board, your base will cover most or all of the taper unless you are using some really chinsy (small) stuff base.
You can run the sheets vertically for fewer feet of taping, but it's less convient. Don't put rips on top or bottom unless you hate your body and enjoy taping at odd elevations. Put a rip in the middle of the wall so it's easy to tape. If you don't believe me try one wall with rips on top or bottom, (or god forbid both) and one wall with the rip in the middle.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Yeah, I always try to put the rip in the middle for ease of taping, too. I like to use 5/8" board top and bottom and 1/2" board without tapered edges for the center rip. Tapes out flat pretty easilly.
Loren Wallace for president.
The big box stores are carrying 3/8" drywall here now, so you can do the same with 1/2" rock top and bottom.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
That 3/8 board stiff enough? I don't think I've ever used it, but even 1/2 gets kind of soft between studs. You've had good luck with it?
Speaking of the big boxes (where I seem to find myself regularly) I saw butt strips at HD this morning. I am pretty sure I saw 54" board, too. They sure are convienient for commodities like drywall, plywood, insulation, tools, masonry supplies...the basics.Loren Wallace for president.
works fine in the application discussed - narrow strip between full sheetsView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
nice tip.......
OK, I've finally got my rock hung (I just ran my boards vertically so that I only have 1 vertical joint in the middle of each wall and then the inside corners) and I'm getting ready to start taping. Since I'm such a noob, I was hoping to get some advice:
1. About half the room in new sheetrock. I'm proud of my hanging job, all of the joints are tight and straight, including the 135 degree inside corners. The rest of the room is ancient plaster, covered with 5 year old latex paint (over oil primer), with many cracks that I need to patch.
2. Where there are cracks, I've opened them up real good with a church key and cleaned out well. I'm planning on using PlasterWeld or a Concrete Bonding Agent to improve adhesion. Then I planned on one filler coat of Durabond 90 in the crack, then fiber tape over the first coat, then another coat of Durabond 90 to level.
3. Where there are drywall to drywall joints, I plan on using fiber tape and then Lightweight Joint Compound (the easy-sand stuff in the bucket) because I have it and want to get rid of it.
4. Where there are drywall to painted plaster joints (135 degree inside corners) I thought I'd first prime the plaster portions with oil primer then use Durabond to fill, then bed in Straight-Flex. Another coat of Durabond on top.
5. I guess then I'd finish everything with a Topping Compound and then sand?
6. Then what? Should I use a high-build drywall primer/surfacer like Sherwin Williams Prep-Rite in order to provide a uniform surface? I'm imagining rolling this stuff up and then smoothing it with a Magic Trowel. Am I high?
So, what does that plan look like to you experts? Am I missing something or doing too much? Thanks for the advice.
When you say "fiber tape" do you mean the woven stuff?That is fine for plaster cracks patching, but a disaster for sheetrock joints. They WILL crack. use paper tape bedded in Durabond, then you cant do the two topcoats in your easysand. Don't mess up the job by trying to use easysand for a bedding coat just to save five or ten bucks.
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Yes, that's my preferred method-----The one piffin outlines.
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Piffin is correct. Use paper tape on drywall. Whenever you use mesh tape a setting mud must be used (like durabond).
Use your joint compound on the paper tape and the first and second coats. I rarely use topping anymore, with these lightweight muds we use all purpose for all finishing.
It is a good idea to have your straightflex cut to length before you mix up that durabond, to avoid having the mud set up too quick.
Don't know about magic trowel and primer. when we use something like tuffcoat we spray it on and it "smooths" itself out. I think you would just roll it on and leave it. Ask the manufacturer for advise. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Let me get this straight, then...I should use only paper tape at the straight joints and Straight-Flex at the corners. No fiber mesh tape. I can use mesh for my plaster crack repairs, though.
Plaster cracks will be done with Durabond. First coat to fill voids. Tape over first coat. Second coat to bed tape and feather. Third coat to feather. Sand to finish.
Paper Tape and Straight-Flex both to be set in Durabond and Durabond second and third coat?My reasoning on the topping is I was working at a friends a few weeks ago and I seemed to have a much easier time work the heavy topping compound versus the lightweight all-purpose. I got a smoother coat with few voids and bubbles. Maybe a primer/surfacer like I'm talking about would help hide my cruddy knife work?
I don't know what all the fuss is about using fiberglass mesh tape on tapered joints. Been doing it for years with no problems. We DO use paper tape on all butt joints, inside corners and alongside metal outside corners, though.
Best thing you can do is invest 15 bones in Myron Ferguson's book on Drywall. Follow his advice. He's been in the profession his whole life and is seriously "into" it. He's never steered me wrong yet. Loren Wallace for president.
Jim,
I don't think there's a whole lot of concern from the professional about using mesh, bedded with durabond/finished with most any easier sanded compound. But for the novice or sometimes finisher, paper is pretty much a guaranteed process and will take a bit of movement in board.
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Don't have to bed it in hot mud. Regular joint compound works fine.Hey to Joyce.Loren Wallace for president.
Old habits are hard to break. I start everything in Durabond.
How bout the cornerbead, you use it there?
Have a "new" Van CD, heard a new one lately? I'd give you the name but the case is in the car, a neighbor burned it for us. Good.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
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No, we use paper tape for corner bead if there is any doubt or if the corner isn't just so...I'd say maybe one corner in 3...maybe 4...not always both sides either.Wait. Do you mean hot mud on every corner? No. I know tapers who use it for everything except nailheads on the first coat, but I only use it for owies or cracks wider than 1/4" or so. Just don't like it much unless I need to get 2 coats on fast - too hard to work with. Corner bead DOES seem like a good application for it tough, bet that toughens up those corners.Don't like topping mud either - too soft.I saw a new Van Morrison compilation disc in Starbucks the other day. Kathy loves his music, I hear enough on the radio for my taste.Loren Wallace for president.
We always use hot mud with mesh tape and first coat it at the same time. Mesh tape can get a hairline crack (probably more likely on a butt than a seam) I bevieve there has been a thread about that here. We also do not use nail on bead anymore, only tape on, it eliminates the need for taping the bead. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I'm curious - why use tape alongside metal corners?
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Makes a stronger corner, fewer cracks along the edge of the metal.Loren Wallace for president.
That hasn't been a problem I've had to deal with. I don't know, biut I'd always thought that was from not nailing the corner enough
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We use a clinch tool instead of nailing corner bead, but you're right about not nailing or clinching enough. Seems like I run into that when running baseboard, but by then a lot of things could have caused it, including traffic.I kind of like the idea of using a setting compound for first coat on corner bead. I just might give that a try.Loren Wallace for president.
I have subs do most of my SR work, but on a remo small or one room, I do it.one that size, I am using more of the no-Coat corners. Expensive, but saves a lot on my labour - easier, and gives a much better corner than metal bead - once you get the hang of how to use it. Worth watching Myron do a couple
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In a regular 90 degree corner use folded paper not straightflex Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
In a regular 90 degree corner use folded paper not straightflex.
I really like StraightFlex and the way it helps to create nice crisp inside corners. I agree that it's not necessary on regular 90° inside corners and it's not as cheap as paper tape, but I have used it occasionally on less-than-perfect corners. I also find that it saves a little time.
Has anybody used chopped fiberglass in the compound for filling plaster cracks? I don't think regular fiberglass mesh tape is strong enough to really reinforce plaster repairs, the tape is very weak. There is plaster repair mesh tape, that is thicker and wider than drywall mesh.
I did once for a brick to drywall joint. But I ended up covering the joint with trim for a better look.On plaster cracks just use StructoLite to fill, and finish with finishing plaster.You generally can't go wrong using the original materials (or a good facsimile of them) when doing repairs. Sticking to lime based materials on plaster repairs avoids any problem of mis-matched materials like using gypsum based products might.If you use a fiberglass tape, you will want the type used for cement board, for alkaline resistance.
OK, gentlemen:
I have all of my drywall to drywall joints taped with paper tape, bedded in Durabond 90. At the 135 degree drywall to plaster joints (octagon shaped room with three new drywall walls), I primed the previously painted plaster with BM oil base primer, and used Durabond 90 to fill the gaps left between the square drywall boards and the existing plaster. I filled most of my screw holes with leftover Durabond, just to use it up.Tomorrow I plan on the following:
1. Bed Straight-Flex into my 135 degree corners using more Durabond 90.
2. Hit my electrical boxes with Durabond 90. I Rotozipped them out, so the gaps are no more than 3/16", so do I need to tape? If so, mesh or paper tape?
3. Used Durabond 90 to fill plaster cracks to just below level in preparation for mesh tape.Prior to filling my cracks, I have a question:
1. I intend to apply a concrete bonding agent (also says on the bottle its for use with plaster) to the plaster prior to filling with DB90. Am I supposed to let the bonder dry completely, or should it still be tacky when I apply compound?
2. There are several hairline cracks that I probably can't get any material in to. The plaster on either side of the hairlines is solid, so I don't want to open them up any more, I don't think. Should I just adhere mesh tape and skim over the top? Do I used Durabond for this, too?And... two more questions:
1. On my drywall to drywall joints, I have the paper tape set in Durabond. Can I use regular drying-type all purpose lightweight joint compound for the remaining coats?
2. After the plaster cracks are filled with Durabond, taped with mesh, and then overcoated with another layer of Durabond (to set the tape), what should I use for subsequent coats? More Durabond, or All-Purpose Lightweight, or what?And also: Thanks to all of you for your advice so far. This thing is going a lot easier than I'd feared. The paper tape set in real easy, not the b!tch that I'd remembered from the past.
I only bed my tape, metals and plastic trim, and initial swipes on screws with Durabond. After that I usually coat over with bucket litewt, or topping.
Around the boxes I would flat tape using bucket mud. Might prefill the gap and let it dry (probably not).
For an easier job, just remember to apply with finesse, not looking for perfect-just keeping an eye out for some hod that'll screw you later. Hit it and git it. Scrape down ridges etc between coats. Sand (and cus) at the end.
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Edited 12/5/2007 8:35 pm ET by calvin
The bonding agent I used mixed with the plaster. I suggest you see what the manufacturer says, but I would also think you could use a good quality primer, like Fresh Start.
I'll go along with that, Ive run into some pretty ugly corners. I'm not a big fan of fixing sloppy hanging or framing with mud though. When asked to to do float out waves or crooked corners, we break out the framing mud. ; ^ ) Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.