Hi everyone,
Recently bought an old industrial building here in Baltimore with some friends. We are having a discussion on whether we should use CPVC or copper for the main water lines. We definitely are bypassing the old galv. lines.
My worries are mainly about chemical leaching from the CPVC lines. I would be interested in hearing everyones opinions on this matter.
BTW- I am a licensed contractor hear but not a plumber.
I’m a carpenter/ builder. Although I DO like sweating copper from time to time.
Thanks!
Tom
Replies
Tom: Copper has been around for a long time. There a still a few class action lawsuit going on with some of the other plastics that was used for water lines. I don't think you'll ever have to worry about using copper, but you might worry if you used plastic. Best Regards, Dale Buchanan
I'm not a plumber either, but most of the plumbers I deal with prefer copper, as does our building inspector. Usually, in my area (PNW), CPVC is used mostly by DIY'rs or if there is a very low ph and the homeowner doesn't want to spring for a water treatment apparatus.
I've personally never heard of any emissions from CPVC, only that it's required over PVC in dwellings since PVC emits chlorine gas when it burns.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a piece of chalk and cut it with an axe.
I've worked with both. Plastic is way easier, but I'd still go with copper in my own house (or old industrial building.)
I'm so jealous. I've wanted an old retail building for years. Two or three stories, all brick, ornate facade. Put a new roof on it, seal it up and insulate it. Have my office in the store front, with gold leaf lettering on the windows, shop in the back, living quarters upstairs. There are two for sale right now in Lewistown, MT, and I'm unemployed.
Thanks for the replies so far. One thing we are going to consider is running the main trunk lines in cpvc (2" lines) and then take off from that in cpvc or copper. I too worry about the brittleness of the plastic. But if we can avoid the expense of the 2" pipe that would save a lot.
UncleD- sorry to hear your'e unemployed in MT.
Is it beautiful out there?
tom
I agree with all the points made in the discussion of cpvc versus copper. But if you're talking about a 2" inlet for the main, you might consider going with galvanized, unioned at strategic points for ease of maintenance, and a dielectric conversion to your copper system. I'd trust the ability of the galvanized to handle the pressure inside a larger diameter pipe over the plastic. Also, unless well supported, there will be a fair amount of weight, therefore stress, on any large diameter pipe. I'm not a plumber but have gained a lot of experience over the years repairing and replacing during numerous remodels and I've yet to encounter a consistency of failure in galvanized that I've found with plastics. Maybe I should wake up in the new millenium but I just don't trust plastics the way I do metal for plumbing (supply) applications.
It sounds like copper is the choice for inside the structure but what is preferred outside coming into the house?
I'm near Seattle and you can use either one. Some prefer copper because it's better but plastic is easier to install in the ground especially with one of those machines. A 100 feet of plastic is only about $30. However it was suggested to use copper fittings for any Ts or splices.
Steve
I have used both. One of the drawbacks to CPVC is after a few years of age it (like most petroleum based products) becomes more and more brittle. If you have to make any changes it is a bear to get a clean cut and you have to be super careful when glueing old pipe as it needs more time to "weld" itself together. I also prefer a copper main but if cost were a factor would go galvanized vs CPVC as plastic is not easy to support sufficiently with that amount of weight over time. It will work for a few years but unless it is supported with alot of hangers it will bow and give in time. My opinion, if your going to use the building for a long period of time, do it in copper. DanT
This is for DIYrs or plumbers with no fear of CPVC becoming "brittle". I would make sure that you use the brass drop ears with female threads and fitted CPVC adaptors if you stub out to valves with galvinized nipples and especially for the shower arm (or whatever you call the chrome pipe that has the shower head on the business end). For three reasons:
(1) the plastic drop ears with female threads and a neoprene washer inside I believe are specifically intended for CPVC male threads (not tapered?) and fittings, although tapered metal threads will indeed thread in and "maybe" seal on the washer. This must be because you could crack the plastic threads if you really tightened down, and the plastic male fitting is designed so it will seal against the washer, not requiring as much torque. The metal threads, on the other hand, seal through the taper, making the actual connection much stronger.
(2) if you made above mistake, everything COULD look fine at pressure test time, and then different rates of expansion between metal and CPVC could cause leaks in time.
(3) even if you DID use plastic-to-plastic correctly, and didn't crack the fittings and threads at install, or twist the plastic drop-ear off the screws, the neoprene washer could fail.
Same goes for straight CPVC/metal connections. They sell fittings designed exactly for these applications, but I was mislead by a DIY-store clerk who is normally reliable...which is why I'm posting this to save other DIYrs the grief I'm going through replacing plastic fittings with brass. Fortunately the drywall isn't up yet.
By the way, I know how to sweat copper.
I wouldn't worry about the leaching of chemicals from these particular plastic pipes. NSF and others have tested both PVC and CPVC (needed for the higher allowable temps). And a lot of your food comes wrapped in PVC films anyway. I don't usually dangle my qualifications, but having studied chemical engineering, worked 14 years in environmental engineering, and frequently testing water for very low levels of chemicals, this doesn't worry me. A few dozen other water quality issues DO, but not this one.
Like others are saying, copper lasts, looks nice, and is satisfying to install (if you're any good). Plastic is quick and easy, especially for the beginner. Any exposure to sunlight or chance of getting whacked removes plastic from consideration in my opinion. I did my own house in copper mostly because I enjoy working with it.
My father had a house plumbed in PVC over 30 years ago, and it has been trouble free so far. The downside is that the stuff is spingy, and so you have this unpleasant twang to the valves for the washing machine and the shower heads. Another consideration is that copper is what future plumbers will expect to find when they're called on to fix something. PVC is unusual enough that getting things repaired will be a problem. PEX is likely to have a larger installed base than PVC.
-- J.S.
Copper type L.Is CPVC legal?Can't use it in Chicago.