A local country club has asked me to consider applying crown to a smooth sheet rock ceiling that abuts a heavy stone wall. The ceiling is suspended, it does not come in contact with the wall at all. I was considering attaching solid backed crown to the ceiling flush with the sheerock edge. To fill in the irregular (and I stress irregular) voids between the back of the moulding and the stone shoot in some “Great Stuff” or similar product and trim off the excess that protrudes below the casing. There is about 44′ to be covered. Any other ( I hope better <g>) ideas?
Thanks,
Don
Edited 3/25/2005 2:18 pm ET by DJHART49
Replies
DJ, I don't think you want to go the Great Stuff route. Not exactly a standard trim material. Could you run a board against the stone, maybe coped to the stone, and hold it up maybe an inch from the bottom of the crown so you get a shadow line?
Mike
Mike,
Thanks, I understand what you're getting at with the foam but the wall is very irregular, from baseball to basketball sized stones. The depth from the ceiling edge to some of the mortar joints is 4"-5". I'm afraid the coping would take forever. I realize super accuracy isn't required since I would mount it up beind the moulding. The decorator wants these gaps filled in somehow (and she has no ideas).
Thanks
Geez, I would think that for such a "rustic" wall as that, a crown molding would look out of place!
Scribing would be a heckuva chore, but not impossible. Think of the miracles those log home guys achieve. You could take Rich's idea of an "L" one step farther and make a "U" with the bottom board scribed to the stone. Paint it flat black before installation and plan on the shadow line idea, and the scribe wouldn't have to be perfect. You could even fill the gaps with some foam or caulking at that point, or just leave it alone.
If you used spray foam, how would you get a nice flat bottom side?
Mike
Mike,
I think the expanding foam will bulge out the bottom, I'll trim it with a knife, spackle if it's too porpous and let the painter have at it.
Thanks,
Don
Can ya tuck it with mortar and a grout bag?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
Sphere,
Appreciate the idea, some of the gaps (mortar to moulding) are 4-5 inches. The last time I saw a "grout bag" my Grandmother was icing a birthday cake <g>. But you give me a good idea, if the foam works I'll have it painted a dark gray as opposed to the white the trim will be so it's less obvious.
Thanks,
Don
Ok..I have a ton of areas where I had no choice but use foam for trim in my log house..
when trimming it, use a wire wheel in an angle grinder..cuts like butter.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
Sphere,
Was it the expandable foam from a can (eg Great stuff)?
D
Both that and rigid board..
I'd second SamT 's idea, I have done that on fireplace trim..I used a Jig saw and gave it a strong back bevel.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
If you are stuck on foam . How mabout rigid EXP poly? easy to cut ,with hotknife ,jigsaw,router or handsaw. Then a rasp to finnish. Fill any bad gaps with greatstuff. Then finish with a stucco,drivit? durabond45?
Why cant you put the l boards up and then chink(mortar) in the gap underneath the board and stones.At least then the mortar would tie it all to gether rather than hanging a curtain of wood in front of it.
Treetalk,
The ceiling was put in after the walls. It's suspended s/r and there's a gap of 1/2 to 5 inches between the edge of the ceiling and the adjacent stones and mortar. The stones are very irregular.
Thanks,
Don
I was thinking along the same lines as mike. Put together an L with two pcs of flat stock, even OG'd if you like that look.....apply that to the ceiling keeping a staight line off that stone. Mount the crown to that backer, covering up the screws you used to fasten to the ceiling metal.
You have a picture of that wall you could post?
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
Thanks for the reply. Which way would I mount the L? Would one leg be scribed to the stone? (See my reply to Mike)
Thanks
No sir, the L woud be inverted one side on the ceiling, one hanging down in front of the stone wall. You are making in essence a valance that just drops down in front of the stone. You'll still see up there.
Well, I can see the designers point. Would be good to block it off, but my god what a shore scribing that. Am I understanding correctly that the stone was put up after the ceiling so there's no void in the ceiling you're trying to cover?
To be honest, I have no idea what an L with crown hanging out in front of uneven stone would look like. I'm thinking bogus, but a 10 minute test pc would tell the tale.
What's wrong with the way it looks now?, no crown.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Cal,
The building is an old estate (circa 1900) now country club. This particular room is a small (14x20) dining/meeting/private party room off the main dining room. Three of the walls are exterior and made out of stone. May have been a porch at one time the ceiling came at a later date. It's about 7 feet high The 4th and inside wall is plaster and holds built into the wall shelving units. This inside wall also has an 8" dentil crown moulding on it that the decorator wanted to carry throughout the room. Envisioning the difficulty of where the bottom of the crown would end up I suggested we go with a solid crown. My thought there was I could nail up into the ceiling and have a sturdier connection than with "sprung" crown. The problem was what to do with the space between the bottom of the crown and the stone ("return"). I figured shoot some expanding foam and trim it off prior to painting. I think I'll do some sort of a test of the foam filler idea on a stone wall on my property. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks
Edited 3/25/2005 7:00 pm ET by DJHART49
Without seeing it, I'd lean toward the L idea. Not sure how big the crown woud be, but lets say it's vertical leg hangs down 5 or 6". Assuming it can be mounted rigid enough to do this and is above 9' or so high where detail will be hard to see, what about filling the gap with upholstery foam cut in strips. The high density stuff can be had in a dark grey. Strips could be 3" foam cut into 6" strips, wide side horizontal. You could rough scribe the foam with a electric carving knife and cram it in between the back of the L and rock.
Make sense?
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Peter,
Good idea, even if I use it to cram behind the moulding so the foam doesn't expand upwards too far. I figure if the foam bulges out at the bottom I'll trim it off flush with the edge of the moulding, coat it with spackle if it's too porous and let the painter have at it.
Thanks,
Don
Good idea, even if I use it to cram behind the moulding so the foam doesn't expand upwards too far. I figure if the foam bulges out at the bottom I'll trim it off flush with the edge of the moulding, coat it with spackle if it's too porous and let the painter have at it.
Well, I was thinking of a shadow effect an inch or so inside the space. If it's painted anything but the rock color, I wouldn't want the paint line following the wall in and out....my minds eye says yuck!
Spackle on spray foam sounds like a mess.PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
"Spackle on spray foam sounds like a mess."
I don't think so. I've used it in an exterior application just like that, and it worked fine. Spray it, let it bulge out and dry, then cut it with a trim saw. Cuts easy and clean. Its actually paintable just like that, but spackle would give it a less-porous look. Just be sure to mask the rock wall, because you'd never get it off, otherwise!
I did one similar a couple of years ago. I did the L thing, in a strait line and then attached a peice of 1/4 inch masonite to the bottom and up against the stone. I then used a custom made base on a laminate trimmer with a pointer [tear drop] and scribed along the stone doing my best to keep the laminate trimmer perpendicular to the stone. [Painted line helps] This got me close enough for some hand trimming using the router freehand. after the peices fit the wall trim the end butts to match and attach. Then run a router down the ell with a flush trim bit and you are ready for crown. Make sure that you have enough extre masonite hanging over the ell, roughly as much as your biggest gap+ a little extra. A small molding on the masonite up against the crown added a nice detail and hid the fasteners and masonite edge. Also you will want to paint the masonite after it is fit and before it goes up.
Larry, Crooked Tree Joinery
Scribe a 1x8 to the wall, carve and cope with a chain saw. It's RUSTIC.
Attach the vert of the L to just clear the copes and cut off the excess 1x8.
44 feet? Make your no-caulk-required scribes in less than 45 minutes.
It's RUSTIC, you do NOT want better than ±1/8".
Charge a premium, 'cuz no one else knows how.
SamT
Interesting challenge... After reading through this thread, nobody has broached the idea of adding more stone to the face where the gaps are bigger. You could 'pin' them to the existing stone wall and grout in place with a temporary form once you have a string line pulled as a reference to how far out you can project without getting into the crown plane. If it's local stone and still available, this might be worth looking into. You could use the L idea and pin it into the existing stone filling in the gaps like mentioned and end up with much smaller, groutable gaps in the end.
Whew! Methinks scribing is less work.