Curse you Andersen windows!!!!!!!!!!
Many of you know I’ve been building a Timberframe that I designed from scratch. I started in Feb of 1999 after years of design and planning.
One of the prime things I wanted was to use a steep roof and curved buttress braces to highlite a set of Gothic arch windows that Andersen makes..
Now according to Home Depot they no longer make them!
I paid for the windows 2 weeks ago, now I found out I can’t have ’em
They are in Andersen’s most recent catalog, they are on Home depot’s price pages, and when I checked last month they were still available!
Does anybody have any pull with Andersen?
See what you can do about a GT 4056 for me?
Replies
Frenchy, chill... Whoops probably not the right term to use.... but.... Oh well... call Anderson, my experience has been that if it is a window they made they will make it again and the cost is not more expensive than the original.
So hows that oak holding up ! The rope is short ...LOL
S
Call Anderson direct, right now.
Frenchy,
I just made a call and was told they're available.
Try somewhere besides Home Depot...like a real lumber yard.
Frenchy, Frenchy, Frenchy,
In typical liberal manner, you are acting irrational and emotional again. You went and believed the first answer you heard and proposed a knee jerk solution directed at the producers instead of at the manipulators.
(God, I'm enjoying this)
Anderson can and will make those windows for you if you contact them or a full line Anderson stocking dealer. Satisfaction is near for those with the resolution and courage to seek it.
Home Depot personell can and will, like any politician, lie to you. This particular lie is not confined to the Home Depot Party. I have observed in my professionall life that staff in most retail supply stores who lack the energy or resources to find a difficult product, instead of saying so, will shift the blame to others. "They don't make that anymore" is one of the ten holy lies learned early on in retailing.
The translation is, "We decided not to stock those anymore because it's just too much trouble since hardly anybody ever buys them" It's right up there with "Your vote doesn't count because you aren't aligned with any large national power group that can be easily manipulated.
Here's the reality. I was at the Anderson factory. Home Depot demands a volumn of certain sizes at a certain price. You can't do low overhead volumn on high quality units with a large variety of options. Anderson agrees to provide HD with a package. X Number of these certain windows every three weeks. No more, no less.
Anderson makes three lines of windows but only sells one to HD and not all of the sizes in that line. HD could't get them on a bet without losing money or charging you more than a regular stocking dealer.
Now what's this about you paying in advance for them ?
I can't stretch my mind far enough to imagine a reason for doing that.
It sounds like HD was willing to lie to you to get the majority of the order and let you give the headache to someone else. You are in sales. I'm betting you can understand this.
Sorry about the other allegories, I just couldn't resist, you old walnut whacker.
;)
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Jeeze piffin, hope you got that all typed before I said the same thing in my little 4 liner above.. LOL....
Piff, you are enjoying this too much. (do you even have a Home Depot near you?)
You can imagine how much more than the average guy I hate HD when I have to travel an hour and a half to get screwed there!. I've heard they are going to build one in Rockland sso I'll only haver half the time traveling so I can afford to spend more time wondering why I ever walked through those doors.
I just noticed how much my new tag line fits for this thread.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Edited 11/3/2002 10:10:09 PM ET by piffin
Ain't that the truth.
The thing is that they are popping up around here like pods. I wonder if I will be the last generation that knows what a real lumberyard is like, and why that mattered.
I figure the mills will be the last to go, and I hope I don't get to see it.
Better comparison is that they are popping up like mushrooms or maybe puffballs. Parasites! .
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
So....now ya know why to not shop HD for important building thinks......ya know....stuff like windows and such?
What's next.....a HD kitchen for the dream home!
You shoulda started the process with a real window dist.....but now ya know......so if HD can't fix the problem right quick.....get that refund and call a place that makes their living by treating customers right.....and not by opening a store that's convient to get to.
Hope you called Anderson direct yourself....that'll probably get things righted pretty quick....you'll probably have to do the guy form HD's job and track them down.......but at least you'll get your windows.
Live and learn,
Jeff..............Al-ways look on......the bright......side of life...........
.......whistle.....whistle.......whistle........
"Now what's this about you paying in advance for them ? "
I think most of the big boxes require that. Keeps people from ordering stuff and then not taking it. And it also locks the customer into buying it from them, no matter how lousy their service is.
There may be more reasons - Those are just the ones that came to mind.Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. -- Douglas Casey(1992)
One reason never to order things through the big boxes. That being said, I have of course broken that rule on numerous items that price was more important than timing and service. The money up front thing bothers me. I had placed a large order for some bathroom crap last year at Lowes, talked to the manager about putting only a portion down and they gave in a little on the full price up front policy. But that is the only time that has happened.
I'm sure you'll get your windows without anymore issues, whether that is through HD or not remains to be seen.
I can see from a business side why HD offers only one line and only certain high volume sizes. However, making the customer happy by trying to order a non-stock size etc. should be no problem. Lies are never acceptable however. While HD wants to think of itself as a "full service" contractor supply house they are missing the boat on what they need to do. Service and "can do" attitude is what matters.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
PIFF, PIFF, PIFF, TSK, TSK, TSK,
Settle down, I dare you to find the name ANDERSON on any window in any Home Depot in this world. The correct spelling is A N D E R S E N!!!
2nd thing, As of January 1, 2002, Andersen and Home Depot entered into a nation-wide distrubution agreement for the entire (everything) line of products produced by Andersen Windows, Bayport, Minn. Letter was e-mailed in the first week and the letter of instruction as to the disposition of all existing Pella stock came snail mail in the third week of January. The target date for for adds and stock to get the program up and running was April 1, 2002. If you remember the Sunday roto's on that date..... it was chock full of Andersen windows 400tw/ 200/ narroline/ builder select and fwh.....
3rd thing, I do not know what happens in your market, but, it is very common in this neck of the woods to require a 50% deposit on any "non-stock" items ordered for a customer without an active line of credit. my company does this all the time. I'm sure that if frenchy had an H/D credit card or account he would not have had to give up a depsit.
4th thing, the base price for a 5/6 window unit is the same wether or not is cottage style or even sash!!! I have never seen a 5/6 unit cost more. (marvin, caradco, wenco, norco, m-w, andersen, semco, huttig, built best, malta)
Keep up the good work..... I love your keen observations.... excellence is a level that few of us get the chance to experience !!!!!
So Anders E n
has bowed the knee at the HD altar, eh?
I can mark that down as the one thing that I've learned today.
Now I can open a beer.
I am guilty of thinking in terms of business people who do things on a regular basis. You're right, when I had a store, I learned quickly to get deposits on special order items. As a contractor, though - I have NEVER been hit for a deposit. But then I never stiffed anybody either..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Andersen!
Me too Piff, like I need another reason to think I am an idiot. ;-) Oh well, learned a couple of things on this thread.
Oh, are HD's windows Anderson, wouldn't that be funny.
HD doesn't believe it exists unless it bites them in the dupa. I always go there when I want to be alone.
I've had Anderson make a custom window without any problem.
Frenchy, I'm going to start this with a little story about HD.
I was talking with a potential client about a 40" out swing door they had put a deposit on for HD to order and install. In a short time they were eager to drop HD and hire me to do the job. For a few reasons I decided to just order the door from HD. HD couldn't figure out how to order this door I even heard "we can't order a door like that". I left them my number and went directly to my regular supplier, ordered the door and by time HD sorted everything out and called the door was well on its way to my regular supplier.
I believe what you have run into is a simple case of a HD employee not knowing how to order these windows. It's just a lot easier to tell you that Andersen doesn't make it any more. Problem gone.
Do like everybody is suggesting, get your money back and order from a reputable window supplier. I GUARANTEE they will arrive to your house in much better shape than HD would have delivered. (I've done special orders from HD before and EVERYTHING has come damaged)
HD is a building convenience store. Just as the local 7-11 is a good place to buy a cola it's not a place to buy the family groceries.
Scott R.
Edited 11/4/2002 10:40:44 AM ET by Scott R.
'HD is a building convenience store. Just as the local 7-11 is a good place to buy a cola it's not a place to buy the family groceries.'
Frame it and nail it on the wall. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
I don't think I will join in on the HD or Lowes bashing. I went to a Pella store to get a qoute on some cottage style double hungs, (I'm looking at 15 of these suckers) they give me a price of $475 bucks each! I go to Loews, and although they don't offer the cottage style I get a price of $225. Come on, for $3750 of my own money I think I'll stop acting like the elite pro and go to Loews. There's a reason they have become so big, they give people what they want at a fair price. Are they right for everything? NO. And sure I will continue to go to a lumber yard when I need to, but not out of a sense of obligated to or out of a sense of nostagia.
they don't offer the cottage style
not apples to apples - - did you price the non-cottage style at the Pella store? - your savings may vary - which is a lot of the beef about lowes/HD - as long as you want what they have, you're fine - - just bought a kitchen range from Lowes on saturday (an hour away), had tried every local place and some suppliers elsewhere - etc, Lowes did have an appliance optioned like I wanted (last of a discontinued model) so I give them credit (and I was shopping in the lower middle class price range), but looked around at supplies and tools etc - very common (as opposed to 'fine') I'm happy they are not any closer, so I'm not tempted -
You are absolutly right about "apples to apples" and I should give Pella a call. I also liked your reference to "common" and not "Fine". They are just way to tempting, they are right on my way home and it's just too fun to go in and look at all the tools and hardware. A buddy and I were just talking about HDs vs Lumberyards and came to the conclusion that, for us anyway, it's the difference between being able to see the material, to pick it up, to figure out if it's what we need or if it's going to work and at a lumberyard you pretty well need know what you need and the scientific name for it and, at a lot of them, if you don't, you are immediatly labled a weekend do-it-yourselfer and treated as such. I know this sounds paranoid but I beleive alot of us have felt this. I wish there was a way to mix the two. Anyway, thanks for reminding me that I should be focusing on "fine" and not always just getting it done.
I see my comments were redundant already.
The "fine" comment is worth re-visiting though.
Common is a word that has replaced "vulgar" in the vernacular. HD is literally a vulgar store. Let me explain.
In attempting to understand how HD can keep growing volumn and stock price in spite of all its crappy service and attitudes, i read an article in one of the investment rags early this year. It was an interview of the CEO. He answered the Q about growth by saying that they were expanding into Europe and that they were changing their target audience from customers with an average income of 87K to an average income of 54K because that market is larger.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Tim I've had the same feeling when I go into a lumberyard.It drives me nuts-I was in a place this weekend and they call cornerbead "cb-8 or cb-10 or cb-12;well which one do you want guy." I say What do you mean?"Cb-8 or cb-10- or cb-12?" I say What is a cb-8? They say "Cornerbead 8 foot." Why can't you just say that to begin with? I've been putting up cornerbead for close to 20 years and I've never heard this mumbo jumbo. I think they do this word voodoo to make themselves feel more intelligent then they are.
although they don't offer the cottage style
they give people what they want at a fair price
I thought what you wanted was a cottage style! That is a more expensive window anywhere you look.
Also check brand and line. Almost every name brand offers two or three lines of windows with the better ones costing more for good reason. Compare accurately or you might screw your self..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
HD buyers beware...........HD has ENORMOUS buying power. Much of what they seel is NOT what it looks like!
HD will deliver to a well known brand a set of specs for something they want built......lets say a Makita Cicular Saw. This is how we want it built, use these materials, so on and so forth......AND by the way we want it to look EXACTLY like and be boxed EXACTLY like your current model X2r45X. We want 2million of them.
Big brand makes em'......HD sells them cheaper than what Joe Consumer thinks is the SAME product at the LOCAL Lumber Yard or hardware store.
Local guy out, HD makes sale, consumer happy.........but wait.......product breaks, consumer takes product for repair. Tech looks at item, "I'm sorry Joe but thats a HD "SPECIAL MODEL" and I can't get parts for it because they don't make parts for it, never did and never will!
SOME BARGAIN!!
I am not making this up.
Eric
Respectfully, sir, prove it. I think that's one of the common myths that has been circulated without substantiation. Are the part numbers a little different? If so, quote a part number that you saw in HD or Lowes, and then go to the mfgrs web page and tell me it's not there. Is this a story you have heard from a buddy who works at the store, or works at an independent store? Sorry, I'm too skeptical. No personal offense intended.
You are kidding right?
What is this a legal trial?
Who are you a HD lurker?
I am supposed to provide you with model and serial numbers?
I personally know several people who have taken power tools in for repair and have been told that it is NON-SERVICEABLE because it a a model manufactured specifically for and to HD specifications.
MY brother who has serviced lawn and turf equipment for more than thirty years has come across numerous "HONDA" lawnmowers for which he was unable to order correct parts for from the HONDA parts book. Oddly enough, these mowers were stamped made in USA for HD!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Eric
I am whats I am!!
Interesting Eric. Lars bought a Porta Cable cordless drill from I think HD two year ago. 19.2 V. Well looks like we need to replace the motor ( I think that is what he told me). The guy that works on our stuff never said anything about it being a special HD part, but he did have a hard time finding one. I am going to call him tomorrow and ask if he ran into anything like what you are talking about. Will give report here when I find out.Tamara
Home Depot.
$30.56 Billion in sales the first 26 weeks of this year.
Net Income $2.356 Billion
2,356,146,000 shares of stock outstanding @ (or times ) $27.21 per share
I wish I could put that in a pipe & smoke it!
It is what it is ! Like they say "Sometimes peanuts sometimes shells"
Sorry to not get back sooner guys,
I called Andersen (and by the way they really get miffed if you spell it Anderson) after about five minutes of-------press 5 if you speak spanish----- I finally got to a real operator who kicked me up to her supervisor..
Turns out she's in Denver and he's in Atlanta while the windows are made in Bayport Minnesota not far from here (but I digress). Anyway he checked and sure they they build them..... I go to Home Depot and well at first I get that, "they don't make 'em" story which when I pull out my sheet turns to...."but they have an outside contractor make 'em" then I'm told that this price now will be another $250.00 ...
I informed them that I had just contacted Andersen and they did make the windows and they were available......I gave them the file number and told 'em to check with Andersen.
Home Depots solution? ....... But for the same price I could get a compromise, snap in grills and I wouldn't have to wait 6 to 8 weeks....they could get 'em out in only 3 to 4 weeks (of course no mention was made of the fact that they had wasted 3 weeks already)
No, I'm not a lurker, I have been posting here for well over a year. No, it's not a trial, it just bothers me when people pop off with unprovable stories. I'm sure you have heard it...a salesman says his cordless saw is the best in the world and will cut through 6,000 feet of plywood on one charge...and they honestly believe it. Bad example. Do you remember about 10-15 years ago when there were stories going around about young boys being lured into Kmart bathrooms and getting their peckers cut off? My sister in law said she heard it from a friend who had a reliable source, etc...and the police and Kmart were covering it up, etc.
For one thing, it doesn't make sense for a big name manufacturer (Dewalt, PC, whoever) to put their name on a cheaper product and risk getting a bad name. Sears did contract with mfgrs to change the color of the plastic and put Craftsman on the label, and if you looked closely it was obviously a Skil or whatever. But making changes to the product for one retailer, even as big as HD, means changes to the assembly line. And if you're talking about making design changes (different parts) then you're into tooling changes and different inventory and so on.
My comment on the model numbers was an attempt to get the slightest bit of evidence. Next time you're in one of the big box stores, just write down the model number off a data plate, then go look it up on the mfgr web site. If that same model number is not shown, then you might be right and I might apologize.
You'r comment about your brother and the Honda mowers is a good point. They mowers were labeled "made for HD". Do you see that on the tools?
And before you accuse someone of being a lurker...I have entered profile information...have you? And I see you have a whopping 6 posts (although it's certainly not a goal of mine to run up a high count).
Ellurker,
There isn't any question that HD carries products that are made only for them. Look at >>>MK. If you look the bottom of the chart you will see "Available only at The Home Depot". I am sure it is to maintain exacting standards of quality. People have posted many other examples on this site. You will also notice that HD will carry a certain tool configured to reduce retail price, that you will not likely find configured that way anywhere else. This makes it very hard for anyone to beat their price, but it can be done.
There are many cases where two seemingly identical products have different model and part numbers, and this isn't unique to HD, but you will find that various parts are interchangeable. The trick for a repairperson it to sort through everything and source a part.
Good point on the MK saws. However, I don't begrudge them or think they are trying to pull anything over on the consumer, because they plainly state up front that it is a HD-only model. My reason for soap-boxing is because people bash the stores for unproven reasons. Poor customer service and other problems are certainly fair game. But I can't believe the PC 743 circ saw I bought at HD is any different from the 743 that is sold at Amazon or the local lumberyard or anywhere else.
You are right, El, but watch what you buy very carefully if you want to compare apples to apples. I guess we all have to watch model numbers now. Why I remember when I was a youth we just went down to the corner and bought a saw. ;-) Just saw a battery drill at HD that had NiCd bats, elsewhere they had NiMh, Hd was $10 cheaper. The drill was probably the same, so you find the value.
I don't dare backtrack to see who just said that you also have to watch for old models, but you do.
None of the above is wrong, but we have to be better educated consumers. Kinda like what you and Frenchy are saying, let's not bash, but feel free to inform. 90% of the HD bashing posts can be thrown out with the bathwater, but 10% should be put out there in bold print. I don't think I ever had to vent on HD, when they burn me I figure it is my fault and move on.
If you want to take the window issue, you can save some serious money on a large line item, but don't even think of special ordering anything. Deal with their stock and you will be fine. As a matter of fact, show me one instance where someone special ordered anything at HD and saved money, nevermind saw anything that resembled service and satisfaction.
Most of us need to learn how to deal with the big boxes, we really are being forced to. What we need to do is figure out what all this saving money is costing us so we can add it to the bottom line.
"As a matter of fact, show me one instance where someone special ordered anything at HD and saved money, never mind saw anything that resembled service and satisfaction."
Ok, here is two.
Pella windows. I went to the Pella store and got a quote for the windows I needed. Some were the regular line and some were the architect series. I took the model numbers to Lowes and they beat the prices for the exact same windows by almost 50%
Fireplace screen. I needed a special size for my fireplace and HD special ordered it for me.
Lowes was pretty good on the customer service side. HD was awful on the special order. Both times I was at HD for the order, I dealt with the same person and she was less than pleasant.
Just my .02
Forrest
So your examples prove that HD is lousy at special orders or service, Just like he said. You countered your own point.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
A few years ago I was looking at some construction documents while on a cross-country flight. The gent in the seat next to me struck up a conversation, we discussed tools and construction materials, etc.
This gent told me that HD did in fact have things made to their specifics. Not all was cost-cutting. He said they also looked at the manufacturer's repair records for various tools, and if a certain part failed too often (a switch, for instance), they would specify a better part. Still, for the most part, they were looking to shave pennies.
One notable story pertained to drywall. They contracted with a drywall plant to (paraphrased here) not make the gypsum core as dense. It had something to do with the pressure the rollers exerted on the material as it went down the production line.
It was a huge failure. They discovered it when people picked up 12' sheets and they invariably snapped. For several years, acording to this gent, that is why HD only carried 8' board. They didn't carry "X" board either because it didn't always meet burn specs. Some tests it passed, others it didn't. They were supposedly going to go back to standard manufacturing techniques and were going to offer standard density gypsum board.
Was the guy full of BS?
Maybe. But he was a member of HD's Board of Directors.
I remember you posting that a while back. It was good back then too. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Don't know of that guys verity (HD Board member) but I am aware of the current supplier as my Nephew is one of the sales guys that deals with them. No difference in the product now, just real hardball at distributor cost. Of HD & Menards you get the same behavior. Reputedly Menards is the better discounter as far as the net to builders etc. Prices are regional.
We exchanged business cards.
I later dug into HD and sure enough, there was his name and face on the BOD list. Same guy. Of course, latex masks and wigs are readily available...
I wouldn't have posted the info had I not done a little background verification.
I thought I wrote in my previous post that he said they were going to abandon their "HD spec" gypsum board. Since that was a few years ago, I'm sure they already have.
When I lived in Wisco I dealt with Menards, but that was as a homeowner and not as a builder. In my opinion they were fine from the DIY perspective.
The understanding is Menards do that "loss leader" trick by really pushing sheet goods in a new market. More so than HD.
Hard to believe they'd change a product design much to garner greater profit margin. I'd believe Drywall is a mature design & market. Probably more to it than "less pressure" all that would save is amperage on a motor.
I deal in electrical products that way. Manufacturer's put an OEM companies logo on a certain configuration of product generally for the after market sales by the OEM. Sometimes it is for the 300 % markup most often it is to keep some bozo from putting a NON style fuse in a FNQR application.
Market & margin are the important issues. I guess I don't know that market well enough to contemplate their motives.
It has been my experience most tools store don’t want to fix tools that they did not sell. They find any reason not to. Especially if it came from a big box store. If they do agree to fix it most seem to find a lot wrong and you could for a few dollars more buy a new one.
That maay the case in some but on the other hand, I have a couple in my neck of the woods that have a dedicated repair counter/department. They want to keep the guy staffing it busy to make it worthwhile so they take all comers. These guys are a great source of information. These places get accredited to be factory service centers for gaurantee work for various brands. They work on lots of brands so when you are shoping for a new tool, they can give good advice about which ones break down too quickly or, in another way of wording it, which one they would buy if they were looking for that kind of tool..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Piffin, True they all have their merit. HD does have a bredth of knowledge second to few other retail outlets. Depth? some days they are there.
Rumor (is that a redundancy in this forum?) I heard HD was going to make a specific Contractor store. With deliveries and inventory etc. 10 pilot locations in the US was the rumor. Anyone seeing one of those going up or in operation?
Yes, there is one in Mesquite TX (eastern Dallas county), and right across the freeway (ok, maybe a mile) is a standard HD store. I moved away several years ago before it was built, and have only been there once so I can't give a true report...but...the retail store was crowded with people and the store was a mess (like the ones I usually go to) while the contractor store seemed more organized, less frantic, more professional. It's located behind Town East Mall, if you're familiar with the area.
I'm not familiar with the area but I'm familiar with the concept. I sell Electrical products to industrials and others in our company sell to the mainline contractors. Competition is pretty fierce in the Wisconsin market and HD has always seemed like Grainger with access to everything but experience on few things. Market prices by those two always seemed unresponsive to the going price. I just wonder how that dynamo will affect the market when they get it together. Possibly they will be like Siemens and "procedure" their way into ineffectiveness.
As always competence will prevail.
'Competence will prevail'.
Booch- that would make a terrific tag line. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
I tried the other night to get a tag line to stick and I couldn't figure it out. Duhhh. Gotta try again.
Click 'My Forums' button on upper right of screen
Then scroll down page that new page and hit 'my preference' line
pick font etc and type tag line
scroll down to bottom and hit the 'submit' button. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
You are a good teacher.
"The time has come" the walrus said. "To talk of many things, to talk of ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings, and why the sea is boiling hot and whether pigs have wings"
Edited 11/8/2002 8:36:15 PM ET by Booch
I was personally taught by President Theodora of savage us fame. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
It's done all of the time with tools, appliances, etc. Delta makes some tools here and has others built in Taiwan (not their factory). Fine Woodworking had an article about this several years ago. The same for other manufactures. I was following the thread on washers and dryers and clicked on the (very strange) wash forum. A link was posted that showed 5 or 6 manufactures making close to 100 different brand names. One example was Amana made x products but another manufacture made y products with the Amana and by the way Amana had been bought by Y manufacturer. Look at the quality, look at the price and it's a crap shoot.
This same type of myth surrounds all the big box type stores in different industries. Wal-Mart and K-Mart have the same myths circulating about their gun models. A Remington 870 bought at Wally world or Jack's Gun Shop is still the same Remington 870. Same with tools.....check the model numbers and if they're the same then they are the same tool.
However I will say that I think HD tends to still carry some older model tools due to huge inventory stockpiles or something. A couple years ago I wanted a new 15ga finish nailer. I was looking at the Bostich 60FN.....HD had the 59FN.......basically the same tool.....listed with all the same part numbers on the Bostich site same manuals as the 60FN etc. I can't tell you the difference between the 59 and 60.....maybe someone can enlighten me.....all I know is every other store/catalog had the 60FN as the current model same price etc. but HD had the 59 not the 60. Whatever.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Edited 11/5/2002 10:49:18 AM ET by Steve Joyce
I noticed this post has turned into a bash Home Depot something I'd rather not do...
Any store will have problems from time to time, any store! Mom and pop lumberyards run out of materials at critical times, have higher unit costs and occasionally hire some real dumbies. The big box stores have their share of problems and a few who for whatever reason want to bash them...
We don't have any Lowes here but rather Menards... Menards buys at the very bottom of the price chain and sells cheap stuff.. They keep their profit that way. There are good and decent people working at Menards and Home Depot (and a large number of not so bright ones too!)
The reason I posted this in the first place is two fold! One I hope someone from Home Depot reads this and makes corrections and two to mention it to others in case it is a common occurance and something we should all be aware of..
POWER of the internet!
Good points.
I'm not here to bash any company, they are all in business for a reason. None of them are all things to all people. I personally buy 60% of my stuff from Lowes....HD is also very local. When I want something of quality not provided by Lowes I go elsewhere. I have no reason to deal with the attitude at some of the local lumber yards. I feel like if I don't take my truck and wear my work clothes I don't get any respect or service from the local yards. Perception is flawed there, kinda like that cb-8, cb-10 story.
The big box theory is to keep prices low, volumes high and overhead low. In order to reach those goals service takes a back seat in reality.
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
It is a common practice for governments, the military and institutions to require maufacturers to make a certain product to thier specifications.
If a buyer is willing to gaurantee that it will purchase X number of units, then the manufacturer will gladly abide.
I don't know for 100% that HD does this, but it should not be a great stretch of the imagination to think they might.
So whats wrong with a little HD bashing?
I do a considerable amount of business a a local hardware/general store that is family owned and has been in business for around 75 yrs.When you walk in the store you are greeted (probably by name) and your needs are met with a smile and a handshake. Try that at HD.
Eric
7 posts and counting!!!
I like to read!
anudder ting: HD doesn't assemble their windows.. like a Quality Assurance And. dealer does..
fer instance... my lumber yard assembles the units... i can get factory order or in-house..if i want a 3- mulled unit or a stacked unit.. my lumber yard makes it up and delivers it..
HD is special ordering that stuff from the factory or another middle man assembler/distributorMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Replaced windows last spring in a house. First got the prices from the Pella Store, then checked Lowes and Menards. The Pella store was actually a few dollars cheaper. Are now doing a major remodeling and addition job with Pella products that the big box stores don't even know how to order from Pella. They give faster service, are cheaper, know their product, and even come past to check measurements. They also deliver and quickly make up shortages such as muntons or screens that are overlooded.
The best part is making a call to someone I know and knows me and gives service. The salesman for Pella works on commission, the big box employee works by the hour and keep looking at their watch for breaktime.
The big box stores are good shopping places because they have everything out for display and I discover new things I hadn't used, but I can't do without real lumber yards.
Richard
"I believe what you have run into is a simple case of a HD employee not knowing how to order these windows. It's just a lot easier to tell you that Andersen doesn't make it any more. Problem gone. "
It's more than that. The rep at the Anderson factory told us, "If HD wants some of those windows _(pointing at the better line)_ there is no way that we will sell it to them." Period.
HD tells Anderson they want a cheap line of windows at a bargained price so Anderson tells HD, here, this is it, take it or leave it. That's the deal, it's the only way Anderson can make money at the price HD wants to dicker with.
There are simply items you cannot buy at HD.
I had a similar problem with trying to order up kitchen cabs from them - only because the customer wanted me to check it out. He was sure that HD could beat the price I was giving him - The rep told me that I could get this line of cabs with this front in either a ply box or a PB box and another step up could have dovetailed drawres. The good, better, best thing. So I spent two frustrating hours getting her to layout the kitchen correctly for a quote (I already had the drawings I did right there - should've taken her twenty minutes) partly because they don't offer cabs in all the increments of every three inches in width. Certain sizes don't sell enough to be worthwhile.
Finally we're getting close to a quote for the best with ply boxes and dovetailed drawers whe five o'clock comes, Ding!
goodbye, I have to go home now, they won't let us get any OT in here. ( actually turns out that she was "part-time" and too much hours would qualify her for more benefits.) So she turns me over to her manager to finish up as I'm asking, what about customer satisfaction? Isn't that more important than a nickles worth of overhead?
I couldn't blame her, she was playing by their rules, tho' she was woefully undertrained for the position she was in.
So now the manager tries to finish up. I brief him on where we are to this point and which cabs I wanted quoted. He says, "we don't sell that type of cab in ply boxes"
When I told him that was what she offered me and the reason we had spent all that time on the layout, solving problems, he acted like it was all my fault.
I normally don't talk bad to people, but I think folks all the way up in paint mixing heard some of what I had to say to him and about HD. I absolutely lost it right there.
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Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
Scott, you mean to tell me that you can buy groceries at other stores? THANKS MAN! (I know not ot these stores you speak of.)
Here's my story to add: I had a job reworking Anderson casements that were installed thirty years ago. These were on an exposed site on Martha's Vineyard. The hardware had rusted solid and they were breaking the sash apart by trying to crank and push the windows open. I knew these units were history, but I called Anderson directly to see if I could get replacement hardware to try to re-hang the soon to be rebuilt sash. They asked me if I wouldn't rather replace the sash and hardware together with new thermopane units. (Yes these old windows were single pane) Of course I did.
The new units were made to the specified sizes and went in perfectly into the old jambs. They shipped them to the island in less than two months by the way, and I saved about $40 on each sash by not having to rebuild all that rotten wood.
I am absolutely positive that if I had been stupid enough to go to Home Cheapo I would have been told that replacements couldn't be found. I hate the Grim Depot!
With all their other failings, that is one of the great beauties of Anderson windows. You can ALWAYS get replacement parts. Often for free.
One of my customers called them for a thermopane solid picture window replacement that was over twenty years old. I'm thinking yeah sure, good luck, see you next year. Well, they sent him the replacement in three weeks - for shipping cost only. !!!.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
hey,
you could always change the roof to match the new window <G>!
listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
Check your local codes. Here in Lansing, Michigan, we use glue, nail (with nails) the perimeter then one or two per stud in the feild. If glue isn't used, we nail the perimeter as above, with three 1.25 screws per stud in the field.
Hope this helps
regards
I read in Fortune or Forbes or Bussiness Week a story about HD and water heaters. Apparently a survey of customers was done about water heaters. Often in surveys they will put in false choices as controls to monitor the respondent's veracity. In this survey of customer recognition of water heater brands one of the choices was GE. At that time GE did not make water heaters but the GE choice scored very high in name recognition. HD approached GE with this data and they struck a deal to use the GE name on water heaters.
Like I said, I read it somewhere so I can't vouch for whether it is true, but it's an interesting story.