Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Jun 07, 2003 08:00pm | #1

   Sounds to me like she had someone else - maybe a relative or a HD sales clerk - tell her that your rates were too high and crete a misperception of your value. After all these years, that's too bad.

   I might have asked her where she got the idea. The best way to handle confrontations like this is to keep asking questions instead of argueing.

   Why do you fell my rates are too high suddenly after all these years?

   why did you think the extras were included in the estimate?

   why do you seem angry after I complleted all this good work for you?

   many people get embarassed when asked for objective reasons to base their emotional outburst on and they will back up and apologize while writing the check. For others who respond, you can get to the reason for the misunderstanding and answer or correct them.

   In any case, it is important to keep calm and objective yopur self. Be professional and by asking questions ionstead of argueing, you keep putting the burden for theior crap back on them without attacking them and backing them into a corner which generally leads to greater viciousness.

   As a side note, with the losses in the market and economy overall, I notice more tendency for people to get more emotional and cheap about things like this. Fouyryears ago, money was flowing like water and people just said, "I want..." with no concern for cost. Now, the first question is, "How Much?"

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   deadmanmike | Jun 07, 2003 09:47pm | #5

   It seems like the same stuff goes around in any service industry, be it mechanics, carps, etc.

   Lotsa other folks waiting to "push someone in front of a bus" by proclaiming(after the fact, usually) that THEY could have done it better, cheaper, faster, or THEY know someone who could. I think it's either competion for business, one-upmanship(I never woulda paid HIM so much), or both. The auto repair/parts business is riddled with boneheads that try to gain respect or business by slamming another. I've worked at only 1 out of maybe 15 shops that didn't have you watching your back, I left some because I refuse to play that game. Add into the mix the fact that most of our customers don't know as much as us and have to trust opinions...trouble.

   I have too many stories of customers that had a relative/friend/friend's relative that was apparently an expert. I'm sure most of you do too. Here's a recent one:

   Lady calls my shop, pleasant, seems educated, explains that she and the hubby are giving their son their 89?90? Toyota Landcruiser. He apparently went to a tire shop and they sold him new tires and installed them on his factory wheels which are 2 inches too narrow for the tires. So now his new tires look like donuts, and have a contact patch oh, about 1/3 of what they should!!! She says the tire shop couldn't find ANY aftermarket wheels that would fit. I have her and her son come by in the truck so I can take a look. Sure enough, the tires need to go on a minimun 8" wide rim and they're on 6"ers. The bolt pattern is standard 6 on 5.5, and it needs a 15x8 wheel, the only snag is the factory calipers are huge and would hit the backside most wheels, this is no doubt why none of the books or software listed a direct fit.  I explain all of this to them, and that we could pick wheels carefully and if necessary we could always use a thin spacer behind the wheel to get away from the caliper. They pick 2 wheels at my direction and I offer to get one of each here(at my cost) and test fit them. I usually don't, but I felt it was worth the future business from friends, etc, especially after the tire shop blew them out the door. I test fit the wheel the son liked most and sure enough it needed a 1/4" spacer, and fit fine. He says great, lemme go check with mom and I'll call you to order the other three. Now she calls, and asks if the spacers are safe. I say Yes ma'am, they're specifically designed for this situation, I've installed ## pairs, wouldn't risk the liability issue, etc.

   Here's the sinker: She says her BIL works at a tire shop out west and says they're not safe, and I don't know what I'm talking about.

   I have 2 choices. A)Explain to her that tire shops are only the second rung up the food chain as far as mechanics go and that she might have learned that when another sold her son tires he can't use, or what I did... B) Inform her(politely) that I've been a certified class A master mechanic for many years and right now all I do is custom/ performance work that ranges from turbo imports to $100k lifted show trucks. I again explain that I understand her concern for her son's safety and that even from just a business standpoint, if I had any doubts as to the spacers' reliability, I surely couldn't sell let alone install them. She says she needs to think about it and will call back.

   That was 2 weeks ago, I just shipped the 2 test wheels back at my cost again. The spacers I had to open are mine now.

   Sometimes you can't win, but I will try to lose with dignity.

   Sorry for the long winded post...it took longer to get that story out....:)

   Mike

2. 
   JeffBuck | Jun 08, 2003 08:44am | #13

   I think ya nailed it.

   My first thought was someone's brother's sister's mother's cousin came thru and said they just had done...or coulda done it themselves......for half that price.

   I have a customer right now that was my best friend as I helped him straighten out his addition scheduling problems with my former employer.....the whole time the plan was for them to do the shell and me to finish it.....

   but they needed to make their decisions and get it framed before I could price my work....so no signed contracts as of yet...

   was a solid deal....till the lead carp started trying to moonlight...

   the guy was fired.....framer doing trim on the side giving the company a bad rep for sloppy finish work....

   I gave the guy my prices a coupla weeks ago...and haven't heard back. I'm positive he's shopping me now..as I'm positive the framer low balled everything...

   So...another good customer goes bad after getting bad info.

   In the meantime..the schedule fills up as he waits and shops...

   and my price ain't getting any lower.....

   so IF he calls....he now has to sit and wait if I'm the best choice...

   Best part is...I gave him a real good price as I wanted the work on the new fireplace surround they had planned for after the addition is done. Oh well...

   The framer got gready and we all lose.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

2. 
   rebuilder | Jun 07, 2003 09:29pm | #2

   I guess "times is tough". I just had a customer  freak out on me as well. I built her a beautiful custom cedar deck. We had to make some changes on the initial bid early on, so she was fully aware that we would be over budget. When they stood on the deck for the first time after its completion, they were all shiits and giggles, as happy as I'd ever seen them. We discussed the overage, which they said was fine and then told me how pleased that they were with my work. That was Friday afternoon. Faxed the bill Sat. afternoon, she called first thing Monday morning absolutely chewing me out. It just got worse after that. Luckily for me the contract was for cost plus, but I still have't gotten all of my $$$. I don't like leaving a customer unhappy but what can you do? I bent over backwards for these folks to assure their satisfaction, but I won't bend over forwards for them.

3. 
   goldhiller | Jun 07, 2003 09:38pm | #3

   Sorry about that, but remember …………it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

   Had one very much like what you describe about 15 years ago. Had to gut a kitchen and install the new cabs and counters I'd built and new floor while the couple was gone to Europe for a month. I'd given them a SWAG, but explained it could run 20% more if I ran into complicated unforeseen/unknown problems. No problem. Go ahead.

   Day comes that they return from the trip. My phone rings and the wife is on the other end. They are ecstatic with the result. Two days later I go in to settle up. Wife goes off big time cause I'm 1% over the initial SWAG. Not the 20% I prepared them for and they agreed to….just 1%. I spend a couple of hours trying to get a grasp on the situation, but fail to.

   Don't hear a thing from them for about two years. Then the phone rings one day and it's……guess who? She sheepishly explains that her husband had retired 6 months ago and decided to DIY an addition on the house. They're in big trouble now due to inexperience and lack of planning. Could I come and look? Sure. They practically polished my shoes when I arrived and then explained how they had no idea how difficult this stuff is to do and how much there is to know. I bailed them out which was no small feat.

   The guy still DIYs projects all the time, but I'm called in before they begin anything now and they pay me handsomely as a consultant…….and always more than I ask for.

   Don't count yourself out yet. There's all manner of reasons that could explain the reaction including that you're being used as a convenient whipping boy for totally unrelated stress or problems. If they liked your work and prices for that long, I suspect there's good reason why and that this is unrelated to quality or price. Under the circumstances, sounds you did everything you could.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
1. 
   Wet_Head | Jun 07, 2003 09:44pm | #4

   now we need GeorgeR to come in here and tell us all we are nothing but crap.  LOL

4. 
   KRettger | Jun 07, 2003 10:44pm | #6

   Got to feel for you. Everyone of us who has been in the trades awhile has been in your same shoes. I'm now doing it in commercial work and the same thing sometimes happens to us. We always have a job site super or project manager sign for extras or changeouts, but then sometimes custumers office says "sorry about your luck buddy, that man was not authorized to sign for this ticket." We keep real close track of who pulls these nasty games on us and always warn our foreman before hand if they do some work for any of these people. Then if job starts to get held up because custumer won't get the "proper" signature for extras it lands on their doorstep not ours. Sometimes this causes us to loose a custumer now and then but we are still in business and most of the companies that play nasty games on payouts usually end up going belly-up,(your reputation always proceeds you.)

   We have only one custumer who is the exeption to the rule. Furstenberg Const. in Dallas Tx. They build airplane hangers for Lear, Texas Instruments, ect... They are a bread and butter company for us and as long as we've worked for them as long as we well document any work for them they pay right up. We have what we call the "Furstenberg Rule." As long as either Jim or Joe Furstenberg tell us to do or build something all our foreman are to consider it an order from God and ask questions later.

   Documentation, Documentation, Documentation!!!

   Get everything in writing up front, clearly spelling out both parties responsabilities.This may seem to be a hassle but you can make it part of your presention of selling yourself to your custumer, and then get full documention of all extras. If custumer is not going to be around to sign extras get them to sign or initial, a work order. If they won't do this hold up on the work. Less hassels, less headaches, less heartaches.

   Hang in there brother! Don't let one custumer get you down. Remember you are going to come across good people who are straight shooters like the Furstenberg brothers, and they will more than make up for the few bad apples and restore your faith.

   Trust but verify in writing.

   Good Luck with life. Live long and prosper!

   Cork

5. 
   4Lorn2 | Jun 08, 2003 01:53am | #7

   1st - Don't feel bad. By rights you should have stuck to your guns and got paid for the extras. This IMHO has very little to do with the work you did. I'm not a contractor but I have seen this quite a few times. Something in the customers life changes and changes their perception of money. Times getting hard, a lost job, down turn in the stock market or some reconceptualization of the real cost of retirement can easily make anyone asking a reasonable remuneration for their time and labor appear more sinister. No longer is this transaction an investment of discretionary funds toward a needed repair or upgrade it has become an ill timed drain of the financial life blood of the family. Sometimes something as simple as a "helpful" person will, without cause or evidence, suggest that they are getting less a bargain than it seems and this will wear at them like a stone in a shoe. Being financially under the heel can make anyone mean and niggardly. Once things settle the normal open spirit returns many times.

   2nd - Don't turn them away too quickly if, when, they call for more work. This is business and developing a thick skin is called for. That is not to say you won't get some payback. Write up the contract and include full billing for extras in the future. This can be renegotiated on later jobs but the cost of returning is, don't expect an open confession of their being wrong, acceptance by contract that the contested extras are legitimately billable. It is good to put yourself into you jobs but on the financial end egos often get in the way. Learn to compartmentalize.

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jun 08, 2003 05:02am | #8

   Penley--

   You're far from alone in this, as you can see from all the posts so far. I've got one pretty similar to yours. The customer involved is also my first customer; he's also a neighbor (on weekends) and has been a friend for 20 years. So far.

   Over the last 10 years, I've probably done about 15 or 20 jobs of various sizes for him, and never had a problem with billing or getting paid. A year ago, his wife calls me: Don't tell Gerry I called, she said, but I want you to draw me some plans for a major reno on the cottage. We're going to sell the house in town and move up there full time so we need....

   I draw up three different proposals, messenger the sketches down to her in town and she calls all excited. Number 2 and 3 don't do it, but number 1 has real possibilities (this is a proposal for a 12' X house-width extension combined with a roof tear off and the addition of a second story; it also includes everything she asked for specifically). She's told her husband; they'll be up the following weekend to see me about it. By the time they got here, the daughter and the son and the DIL and the granddaughter had all stuck in their personal vision of how the cottage should be re-done; I must have gotten 8 or 9 faxes from them with 'floor plans' generated by some 29,95$ computer program. The owner wants has his own idea for expanding the cottage and wants to know why it won't work. I tell him that his plan involves structural issues as well as setback issues, also that the municipality is sure to demand a full new septic system before issuing a permit. We go around 7 or 11 times; I spend two or three meetings at a structural engineer's office with him, three meetings with the building inspectors and the whole nine yards. Then I get a fax: I'm to survey the lot for the placement of a new septic system; I'm also to handle the entire job--but he specifies the excavation sub, a guy who's done snow-removal for him for years. The customer says he'll pay the guy direct; I say fine, I'm not going to get bent about a couple of hundred bucks on what promises to bill between 60 and 100 grand by the time we finish the whole job.

   We survey and clear the lot, cut and stack the usable firewood, and chip and spread the rest. I call the excavation sub; turns out he's re-subbing all the real digging; all he's going to do is transport the sand in his 6-wheeler. He gets stuck in there at least twice; I've got to haul him out with my pickup, yadda yadda yadda. At the end, the excavation sub comes to me: he's afraid to plumb and wire the pumping station (the field is uphill from the house). I handle all that personally, and finally I make up the bill--comes to a couple of grand, if I remember right, without the excavation.

   The owner gripes about $450 worth that he claims I was on site at the same time as the excavation sub and he wasn't going to pay two people to do the same job. I told him that the excavation sub had already completely p-ssed off the inspector and tried to slip in the wrong grain of filter sand by dumping cheap crud underneath the good stuff when nobody was looking, and that if it wasn't for me being there to suggest a solution, he'd have no functioning sewage system of any sort. I also reminded him he'd told me to manage the whole project. He wouldn't pay; so I knocked it off the bill. What am I gonna do: sue my next-door neighbor?

   Then he tells me the septic system had cost him 14,500$ instead of the 7-8 grand I'd told him it would. I said take it up with the excavation guy. Then he starts hollering that I charge him $20 an hour for $10 an hour work. I told him asking someone to drop 150' tall trees without hitting the house 60 feet away was not ten-dollar-an-hour work by any standards that I knew, and that if he could find anyone competent to do that for $10 an hour, let me know. He points out into the yard: I see two guys splitting the firewood we cut for him and stacking it: it's the excavation sub and his main helper. I dropped the adjusted bill on the table and walked out. I was too mad to risk even opening my mouth to say bye see you later when I calm down.

   He never did renovate the house; he and the kids and the wife couldn't agree on anything. Instead, he had a new garden shed built--by the excavation sub.

   When I noticed about two weeks ago that the dock I'd built for him eight years back had been torn apart by the ice this spring (ice damage is not guaranteed under any circumstances), I smiled. The excavation sub doesn't know how to swim; I guess he's gonna have to learn real fast, though....

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   KRettger | Jun 08, 2003 06:55am | #9

   Lord all mighty--what a night mare. Sorry to hear you getting hosed BIG TIME!

   When it comes to doing construction work I've got two rules that I had to learn the hard way. Now I NEVER break these rules and have eliminated a whole lot of grief.

   First rule- If somebody doen't pay you for the work you've done, cut your loses and no matter what they say, no matter how tempting a plume they hold right in front of your thirsty mouth, no matter ANYTHING, don't to any more work for them. Old dogs don't learn new tricks. If somebody's morals are so low as to screw you, you should not be associating with them. If they succesfully stick it to you once they will do it again.

   Second rule- Never work for family or neighbors. You cann't get new family, and getting new neighbors can be real costly. If my family, friends, neighbors, want help moving using a truck or van of mine with me doing the grunt work, or they need shelves built, shower surround out of corcaran, door work, cutting down trees, WHATEVER- I'll do it but only for a cold six pack, and burgers or dogs cooked up on the barbie. Still got my family, friends, and neighbors, with good feelings all around.

   This second rule payed off big time for me just recently. Good poker and fishing buddy from way back needed new roof for insurance purposes. Was going to do it himself, needed buddys to pitch in. I agreed, he turned into a Quazimoto when it came to doing the work, and was generaly a pain. I felt free to tell him to go take a leap. I snatched my six pack and said "see you later alligator, I'm going fishing." Still good friends but it was great to be able to walk away and save friendship.

   Hope things work out between you and your neighbor.

   Cork

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jun 08, 2003 07:52am | #11

   Well, he left the Saturday Gazette comics section inside the screen door a couple of weeks ago, as he's been doing for years. But he's still gonna need somebody else to build him a new dock. I think....

   I know what you mean about not working for friends or family; I had that rule when I owned a business in NYC 20 years ago, and I stuck to it like glue. At that time, and in those circumstances it was logical.

   The difference now is that (up to now; things are changing for unrelated reasons) I'm 'semi-retired' and just do the construction work because I like doing it and it gives me an excellent excuse to buy any tool I want. Plus, one day I woke up and said to myself: 'I've been working for a$$holes for most of my life; from now on I'm not going to do that any more.' So now I work for friends or friends of friends, and it's been going okay, mostly because everybody knows I don't need the work, and if they're not nice to me, I'm outta there.

   When the world knows you don't give a #$%?, it treats you with more respect. Ain't that a hummer?Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   jimblodgett | Jun 08, 2003 08:34am | #12

   I don't get that whole "never work for friends or family" concept.  What's that about? I've made lots of friends through the years with people I first met because I worked for them.  I can't remember ever losing a friend doing business with them. 

2. 
   Dinosaur | Jun 08, 2003 09:07am | #14

   When I was 'in town' and 'did it' for real, things were different. I did one job, a real small one, for my best buddy's wife. Not only did I not get paid, the screaming fit she threw made me deaf for a week.

   The thing is, I knew better before I took that job. The woman was known by everyone (including my buddy) to be touchier than mercury fulminate and pickier than a lawyer writing a guarantee clause. But I was hungry, so I took it.

   Mistake.

   I figure that an intelligent man's bound to make mistakes, but never the same ones twice. So I swore off F&F then and there. And it was a good decision for the time and place.

   This is not to say I didn't have customers then who became friends through the job, because I did. Down in the kitchen, damn near thirty years later, I still have hand-made pottery given to me in payment for jobs I did for a poor, young potter who made beautiful stuff. Maybe not every time I eat my soup out of one of her bowls do I think about Pat Saab, but often enough. And that's fine.

   It boils down to what I said before: If you can afford not to be stressed about a job, it'll all work out. I think that's the secret. Now, if I could just convince my banker to think that way....!

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

3. 
   KRettger | Jun 08, 2003 09:22am | #15

   Jim,

   Maybe I somewhat misstated the concept of don't work for family or friends. What was on my mind at the time is the number of true friends you will have in your life can probably only be counted on one or two hands, and its real important not to burn a friendship over money. We both know how things can get when paying the bill time comes up and how seemingly solid people can start getting all screwy. I have done work for friends, but very rarely. The only friends these days I will do work for are friends who are in the trades, or contractors, supers, PM's, --people in the business who have a good rep; know to pay a good man good wages, ect... If someone doesn't want to pay me for my work it dang sure will change my relationship with them, and I don't want this to get between me and those I truelly value and wish to continue in life with.

   So basically if my friends are not in the "business" I'll do the work for them for free if I have the spare time, and when the works all done we'll kick back a do a barbie and enjoy life which is what it truely is all about any way.

   If you've got friends you work for and it works for both I'm real happy for you, it must be nice.

   Cats tearing hell outa something in the kitchen--gotta go.

   Cork

4. 
   Sancho | Jun 08, 2003 09:05pm | #16

   I to agree that someone was in stirring the pot. A guy I know who I posted this situation a while ago was all upset at his contractor and they even went leagel on each other why?? Because wifeys co-workers started putting bugs in her ear and she started hawking the contractors every move at every phase of the remodel. So hubby believes wifey and let the games begin.

   I dont hire vrey much out but when I do its with someone I trust. If I trust him I pay right on time usually when he says the job is done Ill walk in a writte him a check or pay cash. If Im not happy with his work. ill call him and tell him to come fix it. Any grief or he starts giving me the blues depending on what it is Ill fix it myself, never call the guy or refer him. Whic I give a lot of referrals out. But argueing and talking down to someone isnt good for either party. What I found is I ask 5 questions.

   for example In this case it would be.

   Your to expensive you've been over charging us.

   Why do you think I have been over chargng you?

   Other contractors charge less for this?

   Why do you think others charge less for this.

   I checked out other contractors prices and I found they charge less.

   Who did you ask?

   And so on by the time your done with the questions you'll usually get to the bottom of it. Anyway just my opinion.  

   Darkworks:  No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.

5. 
   jimblodgett | Jun 09, 2003 01:10am | #20

   Well, yeah, I guess I've been real lucky through the years.  But I want to do business in such a way that my friends and family want to work with me, that it's mutually beneficial.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if it ever even crossed my mind that I'd be jepordizing a friendship over money I'd have to take a long hard look at how I do business.  Besides, no real friendship can be lost over something as trivial as money.

   To the original poster - one thing I haven't read here is that you have to learn how to take personal authority for how you feel.  If you allow others to "make you feel" one way or another, you are giving them way, way too much authority over your life, and you'll find yourself looking for approval and validation from others, instead of looking within for fulfillment.  Very dangerous way to live your life, in my opinion.

   My mother used to say "you can please some of the people some of the time, and some of the people some of the time.  But you just can't please some of the people some of the time."

6. 
   geob21 | Jun 09, 2003 04:16am | #21

   I just had a customer call me 3 days ago about a $636.00 bill I sent him for installing an Andersen slider. The original contract was for $580.00 but he added oak trim after the fact which resulted in me having to ordering it then go back to install. He's called me back 4 times  for door adjustments because he thinks it's not sealing. He lives on a 4 lane divided hiway (75' away) and because of the road noise he thinks it should be quiter. Once he held a bath towell up to the door interlock saying " see it's much quieter!" I suggested he wrap the towel around his head.

   The point of this is he calls and says how about we make the bill a round number and he send me a check for $625.00. I say as long as we're talking round numbers how does $650.00 sound. I knew this guy was cheap but give me a break. I feel sorry for the hack that just got his front porch job ( I turned it down saying I'm booked for 6 months) The HO got 7 prices that ranged from $6,000.00 to $13,000 and he's going with the cheapest.

   The moral to this is if your going to work for free do it at your own house at least one day you'll see a return. I'll never work for this PITA again and he lost a good carpenter for $11.00. Best money I ever lost.

   _______________________________________________________________

   ________________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?

7. 
   xMikeSmith | Jun 10, 2003 06:47am | #26

   your mother was abe lincoln ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

6. 
   donpapenburg | Jun 08, 2003 06:59am | #10

   I have a customer that tended to pay bills that were agreed to be paid in 30 days, six or seven months later. Got them to pay on time by giving them a discount if paid in five days .  Now if I give them ,say $10.00 off I add $20.00 to the bill .  Some day they will have there interest paid off on the late payments.

7. 
   bill_1010 | Jun 08, 2003 10:24pm | #17

   youre probably better off losing that customer if they start to feel entitled to free work. 

   As for feeling like crap, dont.  It sounds like if she was trying to take advantage of you. 

8. 
   andybuildz | Jun 08, 2003 11:19pm | #18

   Pen

        Hate to be a dik but I think yer leaving something out here.

   I've worked in my earlier daze for Iranian Jews who are by the worst sons of bitches you can ever think of working for (I'm a Jew by birth by the way).

    I know what its like to be walked all over and I never stood for it. thing is you speak about "still" working for her.

   You deserve what you get then!

   I'd take a short walk off that long pier if I were you unless yer so desperate....even I wasn't  that desperiate. You're in the wrong biz bro if you continue to work for A-holes

   Be aware

              Namaste

                          andy

    

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   kennedy136 | Jun 09, 2003 12:07am | #19

   Andy, go back and reread his post, he plainly said that if she called again he would turn her down.  It was someone else who suggested that might not be the say to go.

   Mark

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jun 10, 2003 03:07am | #23

   Somewhere along the way, Your customer went from, hiring you because of you, to Hiring you because of price. It's probably not your fault.  You might spend your time more constructively, focusing on all the good things you did to win them in the first place.

    My bet is it never had anything to do with your price. Forget about her, If she can't understand that it costs money to be available. Whenever She needs your service. Does she think you are going to want to come home after 50 hours as an employee and still do her dirty work.  It takes money to stay in buisness. She's not the only one paying your bills. People go out of buisness all the time. Thats what will happen if you bend everytime. Sometimes it is personal.

   Sometimes it's worth it to give in. If it means keeping in good standing.As much as you need good old customers, You also need steady and profitable jobs. Let her use a cheap contractor next time, to remind her why she hired you in the first place. Just be sure that you are still that contractor

   Edited 6/9/2003 8:16:39 PM ET by MuleSkinner

1. 
   TommyB12 | Jun 10, 2003 06:03am | #24

   Here's the other side of the story.

   I just completed an eon deck today.  Not a big job, about 10 k. 

   Got a call friday evening about 7P to schedule the intitial appointement.  Turns out I was able to drop what I was doing and go look at it.  The big clincher was could I have it done in about 8 weeks.  Well we're swamped, but I tell them I'll have them a price, and a sketch in a few days and we'll talk about it then.  I hate to be nailed down to an exact date which in this case was before the big party so it had to be done. 

   Any how, I gave the quote and specs.  And they agreed.  Then we had six weeks of rain.  But by working our butts or in the rain, we were able to get there on schedule.

   During the course of the work, there were some unforseen repairs that were needed, additional lumber required and several man hours.  Addtionally,  the homeowner overlooked the sprinkler systems that would need to be moved.  Another couple of hours.  A trip or two to the lumber yard for some options they wanted to see in person.  We notice some repairs that were need on the house adjacent to the work area.  Another hour or two.

   Came time to settle up, and he asked what he owed me.  I said the balance on the contract.  He asked about all the additional work we did.  I explained that as a professional, like him (doctor) I offer 110% service but we are fortunate enough to not have our prices dictated by an insurance companies. 

   I guess my point is this.  Bid the job in such a way that you can cover most eventualities that could be reasonably foreseen.  I wan't them to say I wasn't the cheapest, but he did a flawless job, blah, blah, blah.  And that there were not surprises on the bill.  I don't under bid too many jobs,  so I invest any unplanned underages in customer service.  The other point is that its always nice when the customer recognizes what you did and wants to pay you for it.  I guess I got lucky, but it happens this way enough times in a year.  Tom

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Jun 10, 2003 06:18am | #25

   I can readily agree on what you did, with the possible exception of the house repairs, but maybe they were minor enough to roll into the deck project.  Did you miss the sprinkjler system on your walk through?

   Do it right, or do it twice.

2. 
   TommyB12 | Jun 14, 2003 06:03am | #27

   Yep, missed the sprinkler system.  But due to the rain I don't think they've operated this year and they weren't readily visible.  These types of items are covered in my contract.

   I didn't have to move these or do the repairs for nothing, but they were very pleasant to work with.  There's a lesson for the homeowners that are lurking.

   Tom

9. 
   dtaylor137 | Jun 10, 2003 02:18am | #22

   This happens sometimes. Don't compramise on your rates. If she knew upfront the costs then it's on her. Write her off and move on. Next time don't take it in the back, just bill 'em, I have started putting the phrase "This is an interest bearing account." into my bills for the people who drag there feet. The customer is not always right and you simply shouldn't have to pay for their crappy attitude. It sucks to loose customers but she obviously has other issues to resolve.

   If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, is it still lumber?