was in a house this afternoon, a well built place so it seemed about 10 tro 15 years old to evaluate doing a major kitchen remodel with laminate flooring
i was checking the floor for level and flat, and saw some serious problems, floor had sunk about an inch from an outside wall and had some major humps in it
so i go down into the basement, and every floor joist for the kitchen area was floating in mid air
i’ve tried to draw and attach a drawing
these floor joists appear to have no support, other than 2 walls about 8 feet apart, the other end about 12 ft away are floating, with no rim joist and no beam, NOTHING!!!!!!!!, so picture this, a 20 ft 2 by 10, supported by two non loadbearing walls in the basement canterlevered out 12 ft, thats the kitchen floor!!!!!!! and the width of the room is at least 10 feet, so what? 8 joists totally unsupported at one end?
floor obviously has sunk i figured about an inch maybe more
i looked in the basement at the framing and could see the ends of the joists, no rim joist, no beam, un f…in believable!!!!!!
so my question is, what to do about it
obviously some kind of beam has to be installed at the end of these joists, and maybe some blocking between the joists, any suggestions?
this is serious stuff, ive got a 10 by 12 foot room where one end of the floor joists are totally unsupported
caulking is not a piece of trim
Replies
Ya know, that kind of "feature" is one of the reasons I'm considering getting away from new construction and back into remodeling and restoration.
I've seen similar and worse; it's often a challenge to zero in on an effective and cost-effective fix, but the problem solving can be fun.
It's stuff like that that has made me a better builder, I think, because a few years of correcting poor building construction ultimately made me more aware of some of the things that cause short-term and long-term failures.
How to fix it? I dunno; your attachment is pretty big....but one perspective is to pretend that all those joist ends are totally rotten and termite-eaten.
Have fun! Make a few bucks. You and the HO will be content when you're done!
Looks like the fam rm floor dropped, by yr pic, right? But tackle the kit fl first so's you'll have a 'datum' to bring the other floor up to. Put solid blocking between the cut-off joists so's they won't rack, then instal a built-up beam on posts. Make sure there's enough conc to support same, make new pads if you have to. Next, jack up the dropped floor - lally columns or some kind of screw jack - and either replace the 4x4s or pour other pads there to the u/s of those extg posts (did they punch thru the basement floor?). Use some kind of tiedown for each post base, eh. Give it yr best shot...
Ciao for niao
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
sorry the attachmrnnt is so big, did know how ro deduce the size off my scanner
obviously this a serious problem that has to resolved
i'm looking at a 12 by 12 room where the floor joists at one end are floating in mid air with no rim joist and no beam to support them
is this even posible? am i missing somthing? i've been in construction for 22 years and have never seen anything like this
solution? i guess a new rim joist(very tricky) and a new beam(relartively easy)
my basic question is how on earth did that floor system even stay up at all for some 10 years, and what to do about it caulking is not a piece of trim
Here's your scan rotated to the correct direction and much smaller in size.It's amazing sometimes how forgiving wood can be. I'm surprised the floor isn't terribly bouncy. I don't understand what you're looking for. You have repeated the problem several times. Are ya gonna fix it, or just keep talking about it? If you're not comfortable fixing it, tell the HO to get someone who is. I definitely wouldn't do any remodelling in the kitchen until this is fixed...
The hardest thing to understand in the world is the income tax. [Albert Einstein]
Steve,
There was an excellent thread in this forum about 6-9 mos. ago discussing redundancy in framing. I have often thought of that thread when I come across situations like yours. Its redundancy and shear luck that keeps some of these places standing! A very poular find in Vermont is a deck built at threshold level allowing water to penetrate the homes wall at the sill plate. When putting in a new door I typically find the jack and king studs just floating in the wall and bearing no weight. This is often with 2-story houses, framed with 2X4s, 24"o.oc. Suprisingly to me I rarely find that the header has sagged.Mark
Similar to M&D, I came across a situation where a bearing wall had settled/sagged about and inch in the center of a 20' wall. There were floor joists running perpendicular to it and were supposed to be resting on it. The floor was level and as the joists in the middle 10' were floating over the bearing wall as the glue was holding them to the 3/4" subfloor above and it wasn't budging. I stood back and envisioned this structure of plywood and what amounted to strong backs keeping everything together.
The problem is that I work with my father-in-law who doesn't like to setup temporary support when adjusting bearing walls and beams because he says "Don't worry, it will hold". Yeah, ok. We fight about this all the time. I needed to jack up and shim this wall when he was off for a day because I knew I'd never hear the end of it.
well today i sent a guy over the site to evaluate, obiously a major kitchen remodel is out of the question until this situation is resolved
i just cant understand how the floor stayed up and only an inch or so of level, it has a kitchen cabinet island on that must weigh 500 pounds
holmes on homes would love this one!!!!!caulking is not a piece of trim
My guess is that the subfloor is the main thing keeping that end of the joists up.
-- J.S.
Sorry John. You must have posted while I was typing.
I think it stayed up because of the plywood and whatever finish floor carried the weight past the duct work.
My question is: Did the heating guy cut off all those joists, did the builder build it that way, or did some home owner take out a bearing wall that was in the way of something. If it was one of the first two, how did it pass inspection. Makes me think it was a HO.
First, I'm attaching a resized version of your drawing.
Second, see http://www.irfanview.com for Breaktime's most popular image display and manipulation program. VERY easy to use.
Third, I'd act urgently to get that kitchen floor supported with a temporary 2x6 stud wall, then worry about how to do a permanent fix.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
i do use irfan view for photos that i post but didnt realize it would work with scanned pics that i drew
thanks for the info and input
caulking is not a piece of trim
only dropped an inch... just goes to show most stuff is way overbuilt....
I'd guess someone at some point removed something... or it'd have been dang hard to put the decking down...
when demo'n stuff i'm often surprised how hard it is to get stuff to come down that you want to fall... i work hand in hand with gravity but sometimes it seems as if it's not do'n it's part
pony
Take pictures of the floor of the basement and post here, I assume that there is evidence of A removed supporting wall around some were.
"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
i will be next week for the major remodel, the framing/beam is out of my expertise and have subbed a framer to correct the problem
he says a new rimjoist and a beam(parallam) on jack posts on new footings, this guy does fool around!!
the thing that baffles me, is why would anybody remove this structural component
any way we'll fix it, properly, that allows me to sleep at night
i will try to slip over there this weekend for a few picscaulking is not a piece of trim
will do i will try and go there tomorrow(saturday) aand i'm really concerned about the stuctural integrity of their 15 yr old housecaulking is not a piece of trim