Finishing the detached garage for the in-laws. They have an older house and prefer a flat/non-textured wall surface. I have read every D-Mix post and recipe and am ready to give this a shot. I hate to kick this Breaktime horse all you D-Mixers thought was dead, but I still have a couple of questions.
1) Total wall area/cieling area is about 900 sq. ft. I have read that rolling it on can be problematic; can you shoot it on with a pnuematic texture gun and then back roll it even? I’m pretty sure I don’t want to skim coat 900 sq. ft. with an 8″ knife!
2) When you trowel it smooth, what type trowel should I use? Without knowing, I’m guessing a rounded steel concrete trowel with a full length spine. Have done a fair amount of concrete finishing, so I feel comfortable there.
Any other advice well appreciated.
Replies
I only did one D-mix job and the results commensurate with my experience level. (not perfect but not terrible)
You can't do too large of an area before you need to go back and trowel it. It firms up fast on the wall, but does not totally det. I would think that spraying would be too quick.
I would roll (using high-quality lambswool rollercover) the 1st 4x4 area, then the 2nd 4x4 area, then trowel the 1st area, roll a 3rd 4x4, trowel the 2nd area, roll the 4th 4x4, trowel the 3rd, etc.
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
What kind of trowel do you use? And is it a true trowel as oposed to a knife? Thanks.
Don't take too much of my advice - my trowel skills are "below-beginner"
I used an 18" squeegee. I worked OK, but you had to make sure stuff didn't build up on the backside of it; between the rubber and the backing strip of metal. Areas where that happened caused smooth ridges that looked like a finger had been drawn through the wet mix. WHen I learned to keep that part clean, it worked OK.
But, to reitterate, take my advice only on the working time of the mix, not the technique for doing it!
Your Mileage May Vary
http://jhausch.blogspot.comAdventures in Home BuildingAn online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Of course you know the less amount of plasterparis in the mix the longer drying time you'll have but just thought to mention it. The original recipe gave me plenty of time to play with it with knives and the 'miracle trowel'.
The hopper thing sounds interesting as I recently acquired one and will be anxious to hear your report.
.
Following jhausch's advice, I probably won't use a hopper, because I'll cover more area than I can finish in a timely fashion. Did you use a squeegee as well, or a more conventional steel trowel? And for the inevitable ridge - can you sand D-Mix down?
I used the Miracle Trowel and it was just another tool one would have to become accustomed to using. The money would have rather been spent on quality knives IMHO.
Sand for sure but the idea is getting accomplished enough not to need it.
I entered the D-mix foray as a bloody amateur and exited the same but saw enough to recognize it's potential.
My use was over old cracked plasterlath that had been tightened down with plaster washers so I was happy to get anything that provided a smooth surface:o)oh beloved garlic live forever
I spent good money buying the Miracle trowel(s), 2 sizes. Found it to be too soft and flimsy the first minute I handled it. Never could get myself to use it, quickly went back to my trusted tools for better control. what a waste.
but I still have a couple of questions
Lol! Me too! Ive read every thread and after the tears dry up, I'm sitll wondering what the recipe is.
blue
"Lol! Me too! Ive read every thread and after the tears dry up, I'm sitll wondering what the recipe is."LOL! Yup. Me too.
Rich BeckmanThis signature line intentionally left blank.
The sad part is that I'm actually going to want to know how to do a dmix if I ever start rehabbing that school. Were looking at about 30000 sf of plastered walls that could use some sprucing up.
blue
What I've learned in my meager use of it is that it's not really rocket science and depending on one's experience and particular need for the given scenerio the blend of three components can be altered in different ratios to fit the bill.
More plasterofparis for lessened work time, more primer for extended or nonrough surfaces etc.
I'm tempted to think one could use some 20durabond instead of a bucket of readymade if he could really haul azz with the stuff.
Sorry to see the wolvies fall to the mighty power of the buckeyes yesterday. Good game tho'.The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. R. Buckminster Fuller
" I'm still wondering what the recipe is..."
I myself have not used the D-mix...but from past inquiries...here is the recipe I found:
D-MIX
3 gallons joint compound
1 gal PVA primer
1 cup Plaster of Paris ( or substitute guage plaster which is cheaper to buy in bulk)
Mix the 3 ingredients together and put on wall using a 3/4 inch nap roller. After rolled out and startinmg to set up a little, flatten out using a 14 inch wide drywall knife.
Hope this helps.
Davo
It's gotta be a Dunkin' Donuts coffe cup, never found out for sure what size._______________________________________________________________
Some days it's just not worth gnawing through the leather straps.
Don't use a Starbucks Grande size cup -- that's where lots of D-Mix people went wrong.
Billy
You're right, not to mention the Starbucks coffee jacked up the square foot price of the D-mix too high._______________________________________________________________
Some days it's just not worth gnawing through the leather straps.
That's funny billy!
blue
LOL!
I thought it was a McDonalds cup and I still don't know if it supposed to be decaf or regular. Since Lattes are now the rage, I'm confused more!
blue
My wife and I just finished a large bedroom, rec room, two closets and a landing area complete with bulkheads and 45 degree corners. We used plastic corner bead (glued and stapled), fibremesh pretty well everywhere else. Filled all joints with regular drywall compound, thinned with latex paint. Then we went to town with the D-mix.
Mixed up about 2/3 of a 5 gallon pail at a time with a similar ratio that "Davo" used. My wife loaded the 10" lambswool roller with as much mud as it could handle (and that she could lift - the roller gets very heavy) and rolled like crazy on the walls (and ceilings). I followed with a 12" trowel - my 12" knife was too hard to hold with one hand and my pointer finger was starting to feel the pressure - and smoothed it down just like a plasterer would. Always keep a spray bottle going - mist only - on your knife and over the wall as the mix stiffens very quickly on the wall. The misting makes for a nice "slurry" that smooths to a glaze the equals the look and feel of plaster.
Yes, it takes time to get the feel of it, but don't panic. If you find the load on the wall has gotten away on you simply smooth it down with your trowel and reapply fresh D-Mix. It'll smooth out beautifully. Spraying the stuff (like a knock-down finish) would just use too much material and would take forever to clean up. This way when you need a break just drop the entire roller and handle into a 5-gallon bucket of water, wipe the extra material down into the pail, cover the D-Mix with about an inch of water (you just pour it off when you re-start). When you want to pickup where you left off pull the roller out of the water, pass it over a hunk of old drywall (clean) that you've got laying around, reload the roller with D-Mix and you're off to the races again.
Your walls look great, there is little sanding required (just knock down the ridges with a 3" blade), sand lightly (it doesn't billow like regular drywall - most of the dust falls quickly straight to the floor) and you're ready to prime. Try it in a closet or on a piece of drywall just to get the feel, but you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ken
"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
Ken, your my hero. You are brave!
blue
Sorry my reply is so tardy. But your post was very helpful. And left me with just a few very specific questions.
Everythings taped and by Sunday I should have everything floated out with a 6" and then a 12" knife.
- I'll probably be doing this myself, with little help, so I'm concerned about my D-Mix (actually the POP) going off while I'm only half way through 3 gallons. What's the working time?
- Re the time question again - Do I even need POP? Is the POP for drying time or is it somehow structural? Or just use half as much POP for example? Or mix 1/3 of a 5g bucket?
- Does covering the D-Mix with water temporarily stop the POP from going off?
- Lastly, other posters said use a knife, or the Magic Trowel (like a window squeegee). You went for a trowel. You mean a concrete trowel? Squared or rounded corners? Steel or magnesium? Full length spline?
I'm confident I can do this - and well. I just want to bring down my learning curve.
Thanks again.
- Re the time question again - Do I even need POP? Is the POP for drying time or is it somehow structural? Or just use half as much POP for example? Or mix 1/3 of a 5g bucket?
First off, I haven't worked with D-mix, so my response here is academic, not empirical.
The plaster of paris is in there so the mix will cure from the inside at the same rate that it's drying from the outside. Without POP, it may skin over while still being very soft underneath. It would be harder to work with a mix like this. Actually, it would be too easy to ruin that coat if you did attempt to work it.
The drying rate will vary greatly depending on humidity (which goes up as you apply compound) and temperature. That's probably why no one can pin down the exact ratios. It's going to be an experience thing. That's why I haven't done it yet. I haven't had a job opportunity yet that I can afford to screw up and call it a learning experience.
Mostly I work with setting compounds (EZ-sand). Because it cures and dries at a somewhat predictable rate, I find I can continue to work it even as it starts to stiffen. At some point, it gets too stiff to work and you have to start with a new batch. These characteristics are probably very similar to D-mix.
-Don
OK, here goes... (and considering how much you're paying for this advice...)Just recently I ran out of P.O.P. and decided to try another setting compound. I used sandable 45 and it worked great. Even stayed workable after sitting overnight - capped with about an inch of water.Working time? Once it's on the wall it's going to dry fast. As I said before, carry your spray bottle with you and mist the wall and your trowel or wide drywall knife. You can get a nice slurry that fills little voids very nicely.Could you go without P.O.P. or any other setting compound? Sure, but the result might be "grainier" than you'd like. It seems that the combination of regular mud, P.O.P. and PVA latex paint (your econo Glidden brand available at Home Depot) makes for a plaster-like finish. The ridges left behind by your trowel or taping knife can be knocked down by a light scraping or sanding.Trowel vs. taping knife? Just a matter of preference, but sometimes your hand tires when holding a 10" wide taping knife, so the bigger handle on a trowel gives you a break. I don't know about the "squeegee" but I want to leave as much on the wall as possible so that's why I used the taping knife.Lastly, mixing ratio... that's the fly in the ointment, so to speak. If someone could say definitively what the ideal mixture would be I'd be the first to write it down and keep it. However, it seems to vary for some reason. I have found that about 1/3 of 5 gallon bucket of regular mud thinned with about an inch of paint makes for a really nice slurry. Then add your P.O.P. or other setting compound (slowly) while mixing to get the consistency that you like. It usually works out to about 2 cups (8 oz.) of setting compound, or so. All the best. You'll be happy with the results.Cheers,
Ken"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
Thank you Ken for the most informative D Mix post ever.
You're runing my fun though.
blue
I have some ceilings in my bathroom that had a cruddy skim coat, probably 1/16" to 1/8" thick put on over plaster and lath. I don't think the plaster was primed and now the skim coat is flaking off in spots. Would D-Mix be a good application over this mess? Of course I'd scrape off as much of the skim coat as I could to get the loose stuff off.General D-mix question: Over plaster and lath, should the plaster be primed first, prior to D-mix?And another question: I have tons of small settlement cracks in my plaster, none structural though. The plaster feels plenty solid. Is D-mix a good choice to go over everything? I assume I would fiberglass mesh tape over the cracks and then go to town. Or could I get by without the tape?Thanks in advance for the help.
rasher... the "plaster & lath" sets the time machine back aways
your "cruddy skim-coat" could very well be a "calcimine" ceiling they l;ove to come off in sheets.. especially if you use a water based material on them ( like latex paint )
if it is calciminethen you neeed to stabilize the ceiling and then patch it Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Boy that's the truth. I lived in a set of Army quarters in Germany that we agreed to accept without repainting so we could get in sooner. Started painting one ceiling and down it came. Sort of like painting spray texture and rolling too much. Once it gets wet roll no more.
Bob
It's obvious some people here like to make fun of the whole idea. Fine, whatever. But here is what it boils down to: you can use D-Mix as regular topping compound, with the main difference being that it dries ten times faster, sands easier with less dust, and ends up smoother. It also will 'hold' in a covered bucket for at least a week, probably longer.
I had problems painting a ceiling several years ago.I rolled latex paint over existing paint on a ceiling that was not textured. The house was probably built in the 1950's.Problems resulted when I realized the ceiling had been wall papered.The latex paint soaked the paper and it started coming loose !I should have primed it first with an oil based primer such as kilz and I don't think I would have had any problems.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Thanks for your help. I've got about 750 sq. ft. to do, so I can definitely see my hand getting tired from a knife. What kind of a trowel did you use again? I hope to finish this over the Dec/Jan holidays. I'll let everyone know how it went.
I'll attach a few photos of the basic "application tools" and a work in progress shot shortly. Don't get too hung up on the type of tools - mine is just a regular finishing trowel (with a rubber-coated handle) and my regular stainless steel 10" Marshalltown drywall knife. The mud is run of the mill All-Purpose as is the spray bottle.A couple of notes:Fill your corners with regular compound or sandable 90, then do all subsequent coats with D-MixPractise before you take on the whole job at onceStart in an area that is less apt to be seen - you'll see your results get better with practise.Thin the D-Mix to a pancake mix consistency. If it's too dry though you can spray you trowel, wall and holding tray with water and the workability will return.Don't overmix the D-Mix - you entrain the mix with too much air and you'll have trouble with fish eyes in the thinner passes. Just mix it thoroughly, let it stand for 10 min. or so, re-mix and away you go.Use a corner flusher (for inside corners) or do one side at a time. Otherwise, you'll end up with a void in the crease of the bead that's a pain in the butt to fill.Let us know how it goes. Good luck.Cheers,
Ken"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
Here are the photos, as mentioned earlier, RyanBrant.Cheers,
Ken"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
Thanks for all the info. I've been following these D-Mix threads for quite a while and will probably give it a try before too long on my own house. I'll probably wait until after Christmas though as I'm sure DW doesn't want to live in a construction zone over the holidays.