Replies

1. 
   TommyB12 | Sep 25, 2002 05:20am | #1

   Why doug fir.  Is it treated?  Untreated doug fir would probably not be a good choice for a ground level deck in most climates.

   Tom

1. 
   Loudie1 | Sep 25, 2002 05:25am | #2

   Underneath structure will be cca. The fella paying for it doesn't want all cca, doesn't like cedar(to soft he say's). Doesn't want to spend the money on trex. say's a friend had a deck built on his colorado home, used doug fir and has held up great. I'm in New York by the way. what would you use in this situation Tom?

                                          Tommy

1. 
   Schelling | Sep 25, 2002 05:43am | #3

   I would tell the guy that the decking will not last as long as treated lumber, rot resistant lumber or plastic. He could probably count on ten years in a climate like NY. Then I would do what he wants.  After all , I'm a hired gun.

1. 
   Loudie1 | Sep 25, 2002 05:48am | #4

   As per the original question, do you know if doug fir comes in 5/4? And what kind of wood would you use?

   Tommy

1. 
   Schelling | Sep 25, 2002 02:02pm | #5

   Around here (upstate NY), I have only seen doug fir as t&g flooring and framing lumber (2x and larger). You probably could order it but it is not a stock item. We use the t&g as covered porch flooring and paint it but not for decks. Since I am on a budget I would use treated. My next choice is plastic, Choicedeck or Trex. If I had unlimited funds and no environmental conscience, I would use clear vertical grain redwood. We put that on a deck more than fifteen years ago and it looks better than the day we installed it.

2. 
   Piffin | Sep 25, 2002 10:47pm | #6

   We use clear vg doug fir all the time here in Maine. I've started going to using mor IPE' tho' because it is the better value and if he likes hard wood, it is marketed as Ironwoods.

   Yes, you can get 5/4 but don't need to. Vertical grain DF is much stronger than SYP or cedar is why. Go to the IPE' and you can frame at 24"OC because it is that much stronger yet. I figure 15% waste with current fir quality to cull poor stuff - no culls with IPE'

   Longevity. I just replaced a few boards in a deck I built in '88. I recommend that owners treat the wood with watersealer every two years. I know this deck has only been don twice in all that time and has seen hard use. I would expect a well treated fir deck surface to last twenty years. The first place we notice rot is the underside of the surface board, where it is in contact with the framing and can stay wet but doesn't get treatment easily.

   Show customer samples of fir and IPE' and let him choose. IPE' will cost a little more in labor too tho'but it is a lifetime product.

   Use the searchg here also - we've had a couple threads discussing it.

   Excellence is its own reward!
1. 
   OldHouseFan | Sep 27, 2002 08:42pm | #7

   I am just a lowly homeowner rehabbing a 1904 Queen Anne and am in the process of rebuilding the covered porch. I did a lot of research and investigation and finally decided to go with 7/8" VG Fir.

   I did this because the original floor was 7/8 and I used Doug Fir after getting samples of different products. The Fir was harder, tighter grain, and I think should hold up pretty well on a well-ventilated porch after painting all sides and the t&G. I guess time will tell. BTW, the floor was $4 a square foot.

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 27, 2002 09:00pm | #9

   price soiunds just right for material only and it sounds like you got good stuff.Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   PenobscotMan | Sep 27, 2002 08:53pm | #8

   I'm building a deck in Maine (island) as well. Are you using 4/4 VG douglas fir? Do you treat it? That certainly would be a nicer surface thant pressure treated SYP. I'm assuming 16in OC for the joists. Will it be springy?

   What is IPE? Sounds like some tropical hardwood we shouldn't be using!

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 27, 2002 09:14pm | #10

   I call a deck an exterior walking surface made of wood.

   A porch has a roof over it, shielding it from elements.

   I use square edge material for decks with a minimum of 1/8" for drainage and swelling. After ten years, only 1/8" is usually full of debis holding water and encouraging rot. If I were to use T&G on a deck the joint would begin to do the same in a year. Moisture gets locked into that groove.

   I try to use T&G only on porches and to seal all four edges first. It is 1x4 which is actuall 3/4" x 3-1/4. Not springy on 16"OC framing. The square edge sometimes is if I don't cull out the poorer grain. It is the vertical grain that I am looking for.

   IPE' (Pau Lope') Ironwoods decking is a South American wood. Once upon a time it was the stuff the natives burned to make room for agriculture and grazing. Now, 98% of it is produced on managed tree plantations with future growth in mind and comfortably environmentally sound practices.

   Most trees that grow in tropical or wet regions of the world have natural resins and other natural toxins to prevent rot. These toxins are often contained in side the cell walls, keeping them safe for owners. Dust created for installers is worth protecting yourself against.

   IMO, IPE' is mainly protected by sulphurous mineral content. Sulphur used to be a major antibiotic medical substance before the advent of penicillin. Wear a dust mask when cutting and enjoy a good deck.

   It is same or similar wood to that uused in the lawn furniture I've been seeing the last couple years with lifetime warrantees.Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   BarryO | Sep 27, 2002 09:52pm | #11

   'had a foot go right through my old DF deck 13 years ago; stopped when the kneecap got to the hole.  Ouch.  It was painted and was itself 13 years old (so it was installed in the days when even common framing lumber was really nice).

   The problem was the knots.  They got loose as the wood dried out, which allowed water to infiltrate; it rotted through, hidden, at that point.

   DF is not the least bit rot-resistant.  Installed where it gets continually wet and it grows fungus pretty well.

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 27, 2002 10:10pm | #12

   You must not be talkng CVG doug fir, maybe plain hemfir even. DF is full of rot resistant resins. And clear Vertical grain is pure good stuff! Ever see a sap pocket bleed? It's the same arcid waxy stuff that makes Amber when cured. A piece of good CVG DF will last twice as long as pine - at least. I just replaced some pine this summer that was only five years old on a railing. I know where some railings I built in 87 are still sound as the day I built them. There are plenty of fifty year old porches with painted T&G that is still good.

   That knot should never have been used on a deck, IMO - This is what I mean about culling. Too many carps just slam the wood down without letting it talk to them. Have a conversation with your wood like interviewing a job applicant to see if it is suited to the job.Excellence is its own reward!