Anyone have experience with Ipe? Concealed fasteners?
I’ve built plenty of decks with Cedar, and (pre-enlightenment) old growth Redwood. Now, I won’t use old growth for clients. Mostly been using Timbertech, with combed side up. The foux wood grain too cheesy, and trex is worse. So far just using surface fasteners. SS trimheads cause less dimple than the specialized screws, but less holding power.
But next client will spring for Ipe. I figure I’ll get it pre-grooved. Cheaper and more accurate than my crew could do.
Looking at the IpeClip Round IpeClip square and EBTY. Any experience? Install time compared to surface screws?
And re tthe Ipe: have you applied finish?
Thanks. Dan
Replies
I'am in the process of finishing up a deck right now using Brazilian redwood similiar to ipe. I went with the eb-ty system, the only problem I have had with the eb-ty system is they tell you to angle the screw when fastening. I tried to angle screw so it would catch the bottom of the groove.
This only reefed the biscuit down of the outside edge that it was impossible to get the next piece to align with the biscuit and slot without backing the screw all the way out.
With that said maybe someone else can jump in here and has a better idea, best to figure a lot of extra labor for the install
Go to the following web site and read the posts by deck contractor John Hyatt. He has tons of experience laying down Ipe. I followed his advice and everything he said to do worked perfectly. By the way, he advises against Eb-Ty and other fasteners like that. He explains why on the site. He recommends #7 trim head stainless steel screws through the top surface installed with an impact driver after predrilling with 9/64" drill bit with a built-in countersink. I installed over a thousand screws on a deck and screen porch with very few broken screws. It is quite fast to do. John recommends TWP #116 rustic red coating and it works great as well to maintain the Ipe color, otherwise it turns gray.
http://www.homeressources.com/forum/list.php?f=7
Tom,
Thanks for the link - looks like a great solution.
One question - did you backprime your decking or just apply the TWP to the exposed surface? Everything I read makes me concerned about funky wood movement if only one side is finished; on the other hand the protocol for preping the wood before applying the TWP sounda like a ton of material handling and the need for lots of open space.
Thanks, Wayne
Wayne,
I applied the TWP to only the top, exposed side. I worried about this a lot but contractor John Hyatt in Kansas does a ton of Ipe and told me not to worry. He was correct. As long as you have ventilation underneath, coating just one side worked fine for me. Ipe is incredibly stable.
I bought good straight Ipe boards from http://www.eastteak.com. They are the best. Call George in South Carolina. I followed John Hyatt's advice and put one #7 X 2.5" trim head square drive screws, one per board per joist, alternating the side of the board I put the screw on.
Best - Tom
Tom,
Thanks for your response. That sure makes the finish application easier not having to do the bottom side, doesn't it! I'm on the West Coast and am working with EarthSource. I'm actually going to use Machiche, a wood very similar to Ipe in it's properties though a little lighter in color and a buck a linear foot cheaper ($1.80 for 5/4 x 6" vs. $2.85 for Ipe).
The GC and architect are recommending Cabot's Australian Timber Oil but I really like the sounds of the TWP. Being in California I will need to use the #516 (low VOC) vs the original #116 - hopefully that will work the same!
Wayne
Ipe is so strong, you do not need to use 5/4, 4/4 is just fine. Unless you are spacing 24" oc, just use 4/4 and save the money. Plus it is much lighter and easier to work with.
Before making the choice between 4/4 and 5/4 material, I read hundreds on posts by deck contractors on this site:
http://www.homeressources.com/forum/list.php?f=7
Though 4/4 material will certainly work structurally, there are other reasons to choose 5/4 material fully explained on this site. Look particularly for posts by Kansas City deck contractor John Hyatt as he has tons of experience with Ipe. Ipe is the Mercedes-Benz of deck and porch material and I concluded that the savings of using 4/4 material was not the way to go.
There's a company around here that did a large ipe deck. They used (I believe) Eb-Ty fasteners or one of the others that creates the gap between the boards. Apparently the decking swelled in the wet season and since the boards were not able to expand individually (because of the fasteners between) the whole thing just buckled instead. So, I'd avoid anything like that.
I'm just finishing my own ipe deck. I thought for a minute about using Shadoe Track (screws go in from the bottom) but instead I drilled 3/8" holes with a forstner bit, 5/32" pilot holes with a second drill, and then #10 x 3 square-drive SS deck screws with an impact driver. Spent most of today gluing in tapered plugs and next I'll be sanding those.
The material I got was not the straightest. I put together a 14' pipe clamp and left out one course of decking early on so that I could use the clamp and a set of shims to pull banana boards into line. You only need one clamp and a few shims and it goes pretty well... after you forget how easy it used to be to put in 2x6 con heart redwood decking with galv spikes.
Got all the screws (and other stainless bolts, etc.) from Manasquan Fasteners. Great company! Got the ipe plugs from Bristol Valley Hardwoods, and about 1/3 of them were undersized. Gotta send those back.
Ive done a few ipe decks and will talk with you if you want.shoot me an email and ill give you my cell #.
[email protected]
A carpenter friend of mine did a 300 sqft pau laupe deck face screwed with Fastenmaster screws and after one winter here in Ohio half of the screw had sheered off.
I did Ipe with DeckMaster. I don't like the idea of the biscuit like things in the side of the board directing water in.
For the areas that I had to face screw, I used SS deck screws counter sunk and plugged. I cut the plugs from scrap, dropped them in a container with water and used gorilla glue to secure them, and then sanded them flush with a belt sander. I like the Penofin finish, but someone has mentioned that it has become hard to find. The boards can have some funky bends in them. We used a piece of 1/16" aluminum L as a spacer, and a variety of things to pry the boards in place.
There is a little bit of a problem with splintering on the end when cutting. It isn't consistent, and maybe a chop saw would be better.
Don't ask about how long it took or anything. I'm not a professional.
Is Ipe availabe in tongue and groove for porch floors??Mike K
Amateur Home Remodeler in Aurora, Illinois
I think so, but I'm not positive. There is a narrow 1 by board that could certainly be used, with a tongue and grove.
Mike,
I did my 12 x 20 screen porch with T&G Ipe one year ago. The stuff is gorgeous and worked like a dream. Call George at http://www.eastteak.com in South Carolina. George is a straight shooter and will tell you which way to go. They import Ipe and other tropical hardwoods and mill them. The boards and milling are the best. George even estimated my quantities and lengths I would need. He shipped to me in Virginia and I picked up the lumber at the nearest trucking depot. I saved a lot of money that way rather than go through a local lumber yard. I can't say enough good things about them.
To lay down the T&G material, don't even think about one of those nailers as the tropical hardwoods are too hard for the nails. The proven procedure is to predrill the tongue at each joist using a 9/64" drill bit with a built-in counter sink (Vermont American brand), then use an impact driver (I like the Makita one) to drive #7 x 2.5" stainless steel square drive screws in the tongue. All the fasteners are hidden that way. Using that procedure, I only ruined about 25 screws out of over 1,000 I installed.
I used 5/4 x 4 material - looks better and boards are straighter, more stable. it was a joy to use.
Best - Tom
Tom,Did you apply a finish to the floor? If so what did you chose and whyMike K
Amateur Home Remodeler in Aurora, Illinois
Mike - I considered Penofin, Sikkens and TWP. I went with TWP 116 after reading a hundred posts on a site by various deck contractors. Kansas City deck contractor John Hyatt swears by TWP 116 rustic red and that is what I used. All these coatings will maintain the color and minimize surface checking. All need to be recoated once a year. I am at the 1 year point and will recoat as soon as teh weather gets above 80 degrees consistently. I used the TWP 116 on both the exposed deck boards and the covered screen porch T&G boards. It is very important to apply the TWP 116 in very thin coats. I found wiping it on with a rag works best. The Ipe is gorgeous after it is coated. I put on two very thin coats waiting several days between coats. Do a Google search and you will find a local source. I got mine from ICI paint store.
Best - Tom