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I am moving into a new home that will require replacement of the entire decking…from posts/beams/joists to actual floor boards. Living in the PacNW, the frequent dampness makes rotting an issue and the current deck’s posts have significant insect infestation damage. So my question is this: What are your opinions of utilizing low maintenance, composite and synthetic decking materials vs. natural wood? How do they hold up vs. wood, do they get hot in direct sunlight, cost differences…etc.? I look forward to hearing from you and glad that my home inspector made me aware of this outstanding website!
Roy
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This has been covered several times in the past. A search of past Breaktime posts should give quite a bit of information. The search terms "synthetic deck" or similar should give you some hits. You may want to also search on various brand names of plastic or manufactured lumber such as Trex, Epoch, Timber Tech, and Choice Deck.
*b TVMDCAs for durability, you can't beat Pau Lope (trade name for Ipe). While a bit expensive, it is cheaper than teak and is practiccally immune to dryrot and termites.You can search here by using the search button or click here.
*PT frame.... Trex decking....b but hey, whadda i no ?
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Here is my $00.02. Cedar Cedar Cedar....Yes there is maintenance, yes it is wood therefore it does rot and it does split. However if it is PROPERLY built and PROPERLY maintained it will outlast your ownership of the house. Trex is probably the best alternative but if you have any butt joints get ready to start tripping over them (it shrinks and expands considerably in the PNW)and I personally think it is ugly (also hard to tie in any railing system that looks pleasing). Do not use anything other than incised pressure treated lumber below the deck. Pier blocks set in concrete. Stainless or zinc fasteners (color coated to match the wood zinc screws are available).But most of all never settle for a sunwood deck...pure crap,ugly...and its orange. If you want a good contractor to call in the Seattle area check out Pro-Dek's web site. He's my uncle and he builds beautiful decks. I live in Ilwaco ,WA and am modeling my business like his for whatever that's worth. Just like many other things ...you get what you pay for. Cost recovery on a deck if you ever decide to sell is 65%.
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Cedar is our choice for decking for several reasons.
1. cost- $.32 a ft. 5/4x4
2. cedar is porous and expands and contracts less in the Northwest than most other decking surfaces available.
3. cedar if kept cleaned and oiled will last as long as composite decking which buy the way is not "maintainance free".
4.Composite decking still has to be cleaned and still looks like it belongs on a trailer house.Prices range from $1.50 - $ 2.70
5.Most composite materials shrink 1/4" for every 20 degree variance in temperature, which leaves you with a pretty ugly butt joint.
Check out BMC West in Issaquah , they have about fifteen different deck surfaces on sample deck displays.
Thanks for the plug Stu.
*How in the world do you get 5/4x4 cedar boards for $.32/ft ??I am not in the trade and am just a homeowner in the mid-Atlantic region but that sounds awfully cheap.
*Alan, That's the going rate for Tight Knot cedar here. Our waste on the material we're getting is averaging 15%. That means we either return it to the yard or cut it up for plant stands or fire wood.Clear cedar on the other hand is 4 times higher in price.We deck with the tight knot because it wears better than clear because clear is much softer. We use clear only for benches and railings.
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Thanks for all of the great info. I am still torn on whether or not to go with wood or Tech or other such composite materials.
I have read the thread on IPE, but realize it is a pain to work with and fairly expensive. I appreciate the responses re: utilizing cedar, but what about redwood and other hardwoods for decks? Also, in the PNW, what is typical of the amount of time necessary to maintain a fairly large deck. Also, this deck will be built about 15-20' off the ground (sloped, so are there any particular safety features that I should be particularly concerned about during the design/construction phases?
Thanks again for everyone's input!
Roy
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Build strong. Good footings, sized for your load and solid conditions. Braced 6x6 posts. Remember the life you save may be your own. Are you comfortable engineering and building this deck?
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There is no way that I would EVER consider undertaking this project, but fully want to be a part of the design process and understand exactly what I am contracting. I am NOT a talented carpenter or do-it-yourself type unfortunately, but am willing to learn whatever it takes to be able to talk the talk with the folks that will be doing the actual labor. I believe that research prior to the undertaking is the best way to prevent disappointment.
Thanks for your input!
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Roy,
Hopefully this will help guide you in your research.
Your first stop should be your local building commision. They should have codes already in place that will cover your structural and safety questions. For example rail height, ballister spacing and stair construction are typically covered. With that said, where I live, rural communities require permits for tax purposes only and do not care to see drawings. Other communities have 40#/sq foot design loadings and some now require 60#. These communities will probably require drawings complete with at least two elevation(s) before issuing a permit. Some may even require that an architect or Professional Engineer sign off on the drawings. A government inspector will insure that the deck was build to code. Also, your local library has books on deck design ideas. I sense that you want this deck to be something special. I recommend that you think about how your deck can architecturally complement your house. Also, how will traffic flow across the deck from doorways to stairs. Where will the sitting/table areas be? Take string and stakes into your yard and layout the deck design on the ground. If possible, place furniture around the area and see if your deck is sized right. Sketch out what you want on 1/4" grid paper. This will serve as the basis for formal drawings if needed. Look around. Talk to your neighbors about their decks and ask questions about their contractor. When you interview contractors ask for references. Phone them ask if you could visit. Have specifications prepared with your drawings/sketches to make sure that all contractors are bidding the same. There are different grades of wood with resulting differences in appearance and strength. Sorry, said lots. Hard to stop when started. Since I am not exactly sure what you need, I may have over spoke but only in the interests of helping. A final comment. My personal opinion is that all decks should be screwed down, do not allow contractor to nail! Stainless steel is the best (a must for cedar) and the most expensive.
*How about steel for the 20 ft posts? and girders?Then stainless wire railing wouldn't look so out of place, and you could cap it with the hardwood of your choice. Come on, dream a little. You're probably sitting on a bunches of vested options and are playing hard to get...Do you really want to look at a 20' incised 6x6? talk about an ugly waste of a nice tree. A telephone pole would look better than that. Especially if you've got some big cedars or firs around the place.Live in the house a while, decide how important the deck is to you, and, if it is important, spend enough money on it so you will respect it and the people who crafted it and willi want to take care of it. Otherwise, tear it off, and leave it off. The particular safety issue is that someone will probably die if they fall off, or it will create havoc if it falls, or its possible someone could die building it. This isn't a place for an inexperienced team.Have a nice deck. :>}
*You need a good deck builder...They will do you well if you do them well.near the stream,aj
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Pergo problems
Am I the only one who had problems with a Pergo floor?
I am a home owner who decided to install a Pergo floor myself. I attended a class at Home depot and followed the instructions religiously. After several months the floor started to shrink around the perimeter and the boards started to cup. When I contacted the company they blamed everything on bad installation and on moisture getting into the seams. Since we live in Southern Colorado with a total precipitation of 7 1/2 inches per year and a humidity which rarely exceeds 35%, this is b.s. I think what happened is that all the boards started to shrink.. horizontally, which caused the gaps at the perimeter;.. vertically too, with the exception of the seams where the glue prevented shrinking and which then resulted in cupping. Pergo's reaction was rather arrogant.
Does anyone have comments?? Thank you for your help.
Max
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Sounds like moisture is the problem...The lack of moisture as the material is drying to match your site...Might be something the manufacturer did not account for...
near the stream, thinking you may have to humidify or rip out and start over...Next time let all aclimatize much much longer.
aj
*Tight knot cedar, lodge pole pine, douglas fir, cypruss....The stuff we don't get to take for granted living on the east coast.Southern yellow pine everywhere.Just re sided part of the house with western red cedar 8" beveled boards and the cost was 79 cents/ft.
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A hidden fastening system like Deckmaster will pay you back through the years by minimizing water intrusion into any natural material you choose.
The consents on Deckmaster, pain in the butt, but when it's all over what a great looking deck.
Dig back at this board for considered opinions.
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There's another one, Deckster, getting popular on docks because people hate stepping barefoot on a nail-head that's been under the sun for hours.
When I did my own deck I pre-drilled and counter-bored all the screw holes using a jig on my drill-press and then made plugs out of scrap decking with a Veritas plug-cutter to fill the holes - looks like an antique pegged floor.
Anyway, one option that I think was missed was using the new metal decking. It's certainly in the ballpark if you were looking at synthetics. And it sure would be long-wearing and safe in your climate.
*I have used redwood, cedar and ipe on decks. I really like the ipe, don't find it at all a pain to use. Yes it is fantastically hard, dense and strong. It is also remarkably stable and good-looking, resists splintering, and can be left to weather to an eventual silver color. I have also used tatajuba in Colorado, and it is the most unstable wood I have ever seen. I hear it can work well in Michigan, where the humidity is higher, and perhaps more constant.Phil,What's this about metal decking? Forgive my ignorance, but I am curious. Wouldn't metal be hot on bare feet in the sun? Which metal(s) are being used?If you use Deckmaster on pt joists, get the stainless version. The galvanized stuff corrodes terribly in contact with pt lumber...galvanic reaction with copper salts in the wood. Deckmaster would be hard to access from below on a really high deck over sloping ground. The Eb-Ty system looks pretty slick, and is done from the top.I have wanted to like Trex for years now, and love the concept, but have to agree with S2 Simonson that it is ugly, and moves too much longitudinally with temperature fluctuations.
*All three of our local boxes sell 1/2 dozen deck materials - the most popular is 2x6 PT followed by Cedar with eased edges. They also sell all the synthetics/exotics among them, including a couple of different brands of metal (sorry, don't know the brands, but I know they're different from the look). I think they're all aluminum and you're supposed to be able to cut them with a carbide saw blade.(??) Some interlock and some are gapped like wooden decks. The one that I proposed this summer was an aluminum non-internlocking style about 5/4 by 4. Yes, it will get hot in the sun; but, from my couple of visits to Washington, I didn't think that would ever be a problem.
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My husband and I plan to put a deck on the south end of our house, in addition to the west side by the back entry door. We live near Kalamazoo, Michigan, and are interested in Choicedek Classic decking by Weyerhauser. We're looking for something low-maintenance, that can also withstand Michigan winters. We haven't been able to find anyone around here who has used it. Have you had any experience using it?
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Diane;
I'm something of a purist and will echo the virtues of cedar and redwood - have installed both in my own home with stainless screws and countersunk plugs (see Phil Giles post). Beautiful!!!
But... while on vacation in Hatteras, N.C. this summer I was very impressed with the Trex product. The N.C. ferry system has been using Trex for decking around their facilities. Looking good after a couple years of extreme climate (scorching sun, temps and salt water exposure.
Will
*I have used Trex decking in Iowa, harsh dry winters and humid HOT summers. I have been back to the house I first used it on 2 years ago and it still looked great. I did have to pre-drill-countersink the screws though. Trex won't let the screw sink through without drilling first.
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I am moving into a new home that will require replacement of the entire decking...from posts/beams/joists to actual floor boards. Living in the PacNW, the frequent dampness makes rotting an issue and the current deck's posts have significant insect infestation damage. So my question is this: What are your opinions of utilizing low maintenance, composite and synthetic decking materials vs. natural wood? How do they hold up vs. wood, do they get hot in direct sunlight, cost differences...etc.? I look forward to hearing from you and glad that my home inspector made me aware of this outstanding website!
Roy