For you deck building enthusiasts out there….I’m designing my deck to build this spring and am stuck on designing the newel posts for the railing. I’d like to do something like wrap 6×6 PTW with 1x’s, decorative trim and post caps at the top…and paint white. My initial thinking was to simply wrap the 6x’s with the 1x material (primed both sides with an oil based primer) leaving a 1/4″ or so at the bottom to stop wicking, & then go ahead and paint with a latex product. But I’m still wondering about air flow & how important it is for moisture control.
I was also planning on simply using clear pine for the 1x material since finding clear cedar or anything else more suitable in northeast Ohio seems to be a futile effort. Finding any info on designing these things right on the internet or in books is also a lesson in frustration, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
And since I will be intalling lighting on the posts, I need to consider leaving space to run the wiring as well, so I was thinking I’d leave one side of the wrap a bit long, leaving a 1/4″ or so gap between that side’s wrap and the 6×6, to create a large channel to use as a wire chase. I’m sure there are several things I’m not considering…I know what I know, and I know what I DON’T know. So what are your thoughts?
Replies
No matter what you do for looks, you should get your hands on the most recent JLC. Not to talk up the competition, but this is important. They've got a great article on attaching deck newels. Seems that almost none of the typical attachment methods will actually survive the 200 lb. side load required by code. They offer a simple solution for the problem.
Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
Andy,
I figured I would attatch the 6x6's to the rim joists + use blocking...carriage bolts & just extend the length of the 6x's up to the length I need. then do my trim work after the deck boards were installed....gotta believe that would meet the 200 lb. side load requirement, but then again if I knew everything, I wouldn't be on here looking for advice, lol.
And I KNOW I'm gonna kick myself for this, but what is JLC? Right now, I feel it stands for "Journal for Lost Consumers".
Mike, thanks for the suggestions...in fact, other than the post cap detail, your design is EXACTLY what I was planning to do. Exept for the "redwood" part. Redwood in Ohio is like a trillion dollars per linear foot....used, LOLOL.
David,
I'll take your word for it that Mike is a top flight carpenter. Looking at his work would make me tend to agree.....as long as that's not Mike in the purple sitting on the woman's lap in the 2nd jpg (j/k...but if that IS Mike, then I'm too old for this stuff!)
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/index.php
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought I knew about bombproof newel attachments too, but it turned out I didn't.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
I gotta go back and re-read that article. Seems they were testing individual deck post attachments, but in reality they are usually tied together by the rail cap, which is often continuous and adds a lot of strength to the posts.
Yeah, I think you're right about that. But it would depend a lot on how you do railings. The attachment they talk about, a shear-wall hold down bolted to the post and the joist, sure is easy and cheap. Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
Well, real easy where the posts are right at the end of a joist, but what about the posts that run along the rim parallel to the joists? And what about the ones on the partly-circular deck I'm doing right now, where half the posts aren't parallel OR perpendicular the joists? And, combining those HDs with the ACQ lumber could be a mistake.
For those posts along the side joists, put in some blocking, and bolt to that. Combined with the decking that's tying the joists together, I'd be satisfied. Same would go on the circular construction. Given that the shear hold downs are designed to be attached to mudsills, I'm thinking you can get ACQ compatible ones.
Given the litigious nature of the world, that's how I'm building my next deck. I know, so that makes me liable.
I wonder now how many interior balustrades meet code?
Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
Edited 3/25/2005 4:49 am ET by ANDYENGEL
Andy... say it aint so. I thought you were the most overworked editor at FH... you have time to build decks? There is hope I guess!
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Maker,
Im not quite sure if you were joking or serious, but nobody answered you.
JLC is the Journal of Light Construction. I dont see it as competition, I think it is like a hammer and a saw. A carpenter needs them both. Looking at all the mags available, JLC and FHB seem to be the best resources, and they complement one another. If you havent seen one give it a shot.
-zen
Here is my standard newel detail for exterior railings. I used salvaged Redwood 6x6. The corners I ripped out of 2x2s. This pic show the entry of my house.
He's a seriously good carpenter AND he comes from a family of great looking women!
I would suggest that you take a look at the posts available from Fypon. It is a afgreat mounting suystwem, and they are hollow inside which solves the problem of wiring. They look good and paint up fine too.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
>> I'd like to do something like wrap 6x6 PTW with 1x's, decorative trim and post caps at the top...and paint white. <<
Personally, I don't like using 6x6s as they shrink, check, warp and twist so badly. The twisting is what annoys me the worst. I like using using laminated posts made of K-dat lumber (Kiln dried after treating) as they are much more stable. There are a few decking suppliers around here that sell them. See 2 attached pic. The K-dat lumber holds paint better than traditional PT lumber too. BTW - admittedly I don't know what "PTW" lumber is - what is it? Still, satisfactory results can be obtained using 6x6s if you don't mind fighting the problems of using solid timber - see third pic.
BTW - the JLC article was in the 02/05 issue and has some good info, but IMO their method is a bit of overkill. I think it may be appropriate for a 2nd or 3rd story deck, etc. though. Since you may not have access to the article, their method was to use the Simpson Strongtie HD2A bracket http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HDA-HD.html in a horizontal fashion, where the deck post was bolted to the outside of the deck. Look at the largest pic on that web page, but imagine the bracket in a horizontal orientation rather than fertile as pictured on the web page. On each rail post, the top bolt goes through the rim joist, and then through the Simpson bracket, and the Simpson bracket is bolted to the side of an adjacent joist. This prevents the post bolted to the outside of the deck from pulling away from the rim joist.
IMO the method of post attachment you are proposing is easily strong enough. Something to think about though is that doing it that way you may end up with esthetic problems in that the post must be set in from the edge of the deck at least 1.5". Obviously you must use a drop girder rather than a flush girder. My tastes tend to run more on the traditional side, so I also like to hang my deck boards over my rim joists about 1" which also matches the nosing on the steps - now, the posts are 2.5" in from the edge of the deck. At this point, using 6x6 posts, your balustrade starts eating up some "real estate" on your deck surface...
Matt,
Thanks for the pics, great ideas for railings! Was wondering a few things. It looks like the rail cap is wider than the posts, but where it meets the post at the stairs it looks smaller than that post. Can you post a picture of this detail? Also can you post a picture of how the stair rail cap connects to the deck post? I like the look of the continuous rail cap and than having a higher post for the stair railing so you don't need 2 posts right at the stairs.
Thanks
Kevin
LOL...OK..maybe I should just consider wraping 4x4's rather than 6x6's. Dirishinme...thanks for the advice on using KDAT...probably the way I'm gonna make these things. And it's a material I'm sure I can find in these parts. I was planning on leaving the decking with an inch or inch & a half overhang as well for asthetic purposes, so your advice is valuable. I've seen illustrations of someone's work who uses 2 2x's and 2 1x's to construct his posts hollow, but wasn't sold on the strength of that method. That might work out in California where salads make up more of the diet, but here in Ohio...where McDonald's still rules...might not be beefy enough? Particularly since my top rail will not be continuous.
Someone had mentioned using Fypon, but I'm still trying to recover from the price they wanted for these things. Nice idea though, if money is no object.
Zendo....actually, someone before you did post the link to JLC....I KNEW I was going to kick myself, and I did, lol. BTW...PTW, to me, means pressure treated wood. But I'm just a DIY'er....probably using the wrong lingo.
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I'm more comfortable with some of what I was planning, and will make some changes to the rest after having read your insights.
Two options from this side of the fence Maker...
A clean 6x6 is stronger... and by cutting a t shaped channel in the posts you can nest a wire quite cleanly. Cutting a new piece to go back in cleanly and gluing it back together with West System Epoxy can get you the result of pic 1. Great Idea for the lights btw.
The second photo is actually a picket fence... couldn't find the photo I was looking for... but this is a wrapped 4x4. If you look at the base you can see it... and you can see how the wrap goes together. I too cut the corners out of a solid piece of quarter cut material. Having the outer trim and cladding boards and base bearing snugly on the deck will help strength immensely.
When it comes to the post warping and twisting... choose a post without the core of the tree for more structural stability and less twist.
Our Rail posts are nearly always fastened through the rim and blocked behind-then bolted through the joists with a 1/2" carriage bolt.
Good Luck,
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Edited 3/25/2005 3:27 pm ET by Lawrence
I think most people call it PT lumber... never heard of PTW, but that could be just me, or maybe it's a regional thing.
Matt
Not sure if I have a pic of what you are asking. The stair handrails were 2x4 (per code) rather than 5/4 x 5.5" like the deck rails. The posts at the bottom of the stairs were 4x4 with post over rail connection. The 4x4s looked OK as the intermediate posts on the deck were also 4x4 (#1).
Matt