*
Chris,
I presume this is happening because it got wet, since you mentioned letting it dry out. Letting the house dry out with the help of the furnace sounds like a good idea but then I would underlay the floor with some plywood, perhaps 3/8″, instead of the gypcrete. I would hesitate pouring that over some plywood with some loose veneer. The gypcrete might break up a bit over time if there were some soft spots under it. I believe plywood would perform better over time and would be easier to work with in the future.
Red dog
Replies
*
Chris,
I presume this is happening because it got wet, since you mentioned letting it dry out. Letting the house dry out with the help of the furnace sounds like a good idea but then I would underlay the floor with some plywood, perhaps 3/8", instead of the gypcrete. I would hesitate pouring that over some plywood with some loose veneer. The gypcrete might break up a bit over time if there were some soft spots under it. I believe plywood would perform better over time and would be easier to work with in the future.
Red dog
*
Chris, the delamination indicates a manufacturing flaw. Bad glue!
Contact your lumber dealer for free replacement. They will send out the lumber man to take the lot numbers.
Here in MI, the lumber company also comes out and does the work!
blue
*Sounds easier said than done. Maybe I'm just a disbelieving consumer, but I doubt that either the manufacturer or the lumberyard is going to accept the responsibility to install new sheathing at their own expense. Anyway, plywood sheets that are below walls obviously aren't going anywhere. The sheets between walls could be removed and replaced, I suppose, but how do you do this with toungue and groove joints? Also, since the plywood sheets are glued with construction adhesive, it seems that the top lamination layer of the I-joist flange would be ripped off with the plywood.
*Chris:First, follow up on Blue's suggestion. It's only a few phone calls, so what's to loose? Maybe they will just replace the sheets that don't have walls on 'em. Gypcrete sounds cold and hard to me. Also. I wouldn't think it to be a suitable subfloor for (real) hardwood - if you have any of that. What I have done in the past is use a floor scraper to remove the delaminated wood, and then fill the voids with floor leveling compound. Of course, I don't know how extensive your problem is and my suggestion may not be good for repairing a significant percentage of the floor. Or perhaps the floor leveling compound and then a layer of 1/4" A/C plywood.Just out of curiosity, did this situation occur during framing, or was there a delay/problem with the roof felt job? Let us know how you resolve it.Good luck,Matt
*The problem occurred during framing. Once the Roof was sheathed, the rain stopped. The felt & shingles went up fast, anyway.Most of the first floor will be 3/4" oak flooring, with some small areas of ceramic tile. Most of second floor will be carpeted, with some small areas of ceramic tile and vinyl.No one yet commented on the effectiveness of "re-screwing" the entire floor sheathing ... essentially doubling the number of screws in the floor.
*
Chris,
To what extent is the sheathing delaminating? I would need to know this to be any more specific with possible solutions. As far as putting more screws in it, unless it was inadequately glued and screwed the first time I don't think it would help. Installing the 3/8 on top of the existing would add some more fasteners anyway. I assumed that the delamination wasn't very bad and that you had looked into warranty replacement already. You're right, with the walls up it sure would be a mess trying to replace a lot of the plywood. Good luck.
Red dog
*
I would estimate that about 1/4 of all the sheets are delaminating. The delamination probably affects about 1/5 of the area of each affected sheet.
Some portions of the floor will receive 3/8 - 1/2" underlayment due to being finished with vinyl or ceramic tile. If I put down 3/8" underlayment below the hardwood flooring, will that result in excessive differences in finished floor heights? I really do have my heart set on the 3/4" oak flooring.
*It never hurts to contact the supplier/manufacturer.Worst case, they blow you off and you get nowhere. From there you can get anything from full replacement, as Blue wrote, or a "pain and suffering" cash rebate.If removal is out of the question, I'd recommend cleaning up the mess and laying down another half-inch of ply on top of the damaged wood, glued and screwed across the entire field. In the areas where tile/vinyl will go, consider 3/4" to minimize the height differential between the desired oak and the tile/vinyl. It's tough to recommend a repair on something unseen, but based on your description it should suffice.At a minimum, lobby for them to at least give you the materials for the "new" underlayment. Try to get them to bankroll the adhesive and screws as well.Follow up your phone calls with letters. No whining. Tell them: 1) your problem, 2) who you are and how much of their product you use, 3) how you'd like to see the problem resolved, and 4) how you look forward to using more of their product after this is resolved (future business, etc). Always shoot for the moon and offer a fall back, something like: "Since I feel this may be a manufacturing defect, I'd like you to consider removing and replacing all damaged subfloor at your companies' expense. Should you not be able to provide labor due to the job location, at a minimum, I would expect replacement materials in the following amounts to be provided free of charge."Don't lie. Don't exagerate. Be polite. And maybe most importantly, be persistent.It pains me to read a post like this because it just sounds so ugly. Best of luck, seriously!
*Is there an APA stamp on this sheathing?If so they should also be called, as anything with their stamp comes with strong backup. I had a friend put up some T1-11 recently on an outbuilding and in the first rain the outer ply started to delaminate. According to the APA the manufacturer has to back this up for ten years and replace with both material and labor. My friend had the company rep come out and they cut him a check for the material and the labor to replace it.With your situation you probably have to repair as best as possible but some sort of compensation should be in order.Try: http://www.apawood.org
*
Chris,
Very good information from Mongo and Brian. The manufacturer should pay for the new plywood and I have to believe they would with not much persuasion. I would put the same thickness plywood down on the whole floor area, consider it my original subfloor, and go from there. Hardwood can go right on top of that. Wherever there is tile or vinyl going, you should underlay each with something and that would get you up near the top of the hardwood. If it was my floor, I would not glue it down.I would screw into the joists and around the perimeter on 6 - 8" centers and a 12" diamond pattern in the field. The reasons for not glueing would would be for future remodeling ease and that I just don't think it's that important for 100% adhesion between the 2 layers. If you decide to glue it, trowel the glue on and don't just run some beads of adhesive with a caulking gun. You would create a lot of voids between the 2 layers which would
result in movement when walked on. I hope this helps.
Red dog
*This is why I NEVER EVER use plywood for subflooring anymore! This has happened to me several times with different brands of plywood. ( First time...shame on you Second time...shame on me Third time...nothing but OSB) If it were my house, I'd rip it off and put new whatever on. It doesn't make any difference at this point. You may luck out and get something on warranty. I would definitely not overlay it with anything. It will squeak and crunch forever, no matter what you put over it. Worst case scenario for OSB subfloor getting wet is some swelling at the joints which can easily be fixed with a quick sanding.
*
Problem: New construction, 3/4" T&G plywood floor sheathing over I-joists 16" o/c. Sheathing was glued and screwed w/ 2" screws. In numerous locations, mostly at the plywood edges, the plywood sheets appear to be delaminating. How can I best fix the problem? My project's current status: plumbing just finished, about to begin HVAC.
My idea: After furnace is in, turn it on and let house dry out for 1 week. Rescrew entire floor (new screws between old screws) and pour 1/2" self-leveling gypcrete over entire floor.
Your thoughts?
*
Okay Chris, here goes.
First, I'll be willing to make all the phone calls to try to get you a cash reimbursment for the flooring. You have a significant amount. Every time I've had delaminating floors, the lumber man has come out, and taken the apa number off it, and taken care of business.
The last time that it happened, the lumber man tried to get me to do the labor, at a fair price pre sheet too. I am too busy and declined. Besides, I hate doing that sort of work.
But soon after our conversation, the lumber company's crew came out and changed about 8 sheets. They block under the joints, and cut around partitions. They are actually pretty good at the repairs, after all, that's all they do. National Lumber has two full time crews doing nothing but plywood repairs!
Yes, Chris, I'll get you a refund, and I'll only accept a 50% commission.
Then, if you decide to overlay it, (you won't need to, but...), do it the old fashioned way. When I started, we rarely used the one floor system tag that is common today. We always layed a 1/2" cdx, then a layer of felt, then 5/8" particle board underlayment. It is a very dense material, and easy to install. It makes a strong floor too!
Make sure that you specify UNDERLAYMENT! It is specifically designed for flooring. Ordinary plywood will not have solid layers on the first two plys.
Send me an advance please!
Blue