Replies

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 21, 2007 06:24pm | #1

   design build firms that do design in-house   ( as opposed to subbing it out )  tend to use on of the following:

   VectorWorks

   SoftPlan

   or Chief Architect

    

   those three are 3-d cad with object design  ( you design with things like walls, windows, doors , roofs as opposed to   lines  )

   most architectural firms are using Autocad, or Revit.. or ArchiCad

    

   another one that is gaining a lot of followers is Sketch-up...

   i don't know how good SU is at producing construction drawings... which is what drives the design / build  segment

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
1. 
   c0lin | Mar 22, 2007 03:27am | #2

   Well I am having a lot of fun with sketch up, but I dont think that it will do construction drawings. The others that you mentioned I have yet to try. it's always been easier for me to draw plans by hand, especially for unconventional house designs.

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 22, 2007 04:35am | #3

   olin.. i worked on a drawing board from '69 to '84.... then i tried a beta version of AutoCad.....

   went back to the boards until '97.. when i tried Chief Architect ( version 5 )

    

   there is a lot of learning curve to ALL of the professional programs... generally speaking...

    i would think you could be even with your board work output  in about a month

   some of the advantages to CAD  ( big one is you be working as many sheets as you want )

   with a  large format printer, you can get your construction drawings out the doors fast

   if you went whole hog  and started with nothing...  let's say  $1200 for a  good computer with a great graphics card...

   $1500  to  $3000 for one of the software programs

    

   do your printing at kinkos.. staples...etc.. or buy a large format printer for  say  $2500

   so.. $5200 and you're off to the races... putting all your board experience to good useMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   c0lin | Mar 22, 2007 03:33pm | #4

   Thanks Mike,

   But all I require is a basic program for renos and additions, which is the bulk of my work. One of the problems of the small contractor such as myself is that I can spend time learning the program, but it may be months before I need to use it again and it takes time to come up to speed.

1. 
   FastEddie | Mar 22, 2007 03:44pm | #5

   You need to define your needs.  Do you want to do 3d drawings, or are you just looking for an electronic drafting board?  Big difference in software.  Almost any cad software will do a decnt job of letting you draw lines on the screen.  The advantages to this is that you can easily make changes, copy elements like windows & doors, and you won't wear a hole in the paper with the eraser."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 22, 2007 03:55pm | #6

   colin....   90 % of our work is additions and remodeling...

   10% of my time is spent on CAD... you'd better believe it takes me forever to come up to speed   ( my speed )..... i will never be a power user

   the problem is...

    additions and remodeling are MORE difficult than new construction  in CAD..

    the less powerful programs like  punch... 3d-Homebuilder....  or whatever.... can't do roofs... have trouble with multi-levels....  have no kitchen design  ( or very rudimentary )...  so .. you wind up with a lot of "black boxes" and " notes" rather than  sections and elevations

   where do you live ?

   how many years of design work do you have ?

   could you expand the design end into doing it  for others  to pay for your "habit " ?

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   timkline | Mar 23, 2007 01:03am | #11

   Mike,

   Which version of Chief are you running ?  I see they are up to version 10.

   It doesn't look like there is much difference between the base and full versions.

    carpenter in transition

1. 
   FastEddie | Mar 23, 2007 03:37am | #14

   It doesn't look like there is much difference between the base and full versions.

   Wrong!  I have 9.5 Base and there are many, many things I can't do and it drives me crazy.  I hate it.  I occassionally post a Q on the users forum, and after a couple of posts they all realize that I have the Base version, and the answer is always "upgrade".

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 23, 2007 04:59am | #16

   i'm using 10.08a... the latest patch..

   version 11 will be out in late Spring

    

   the content is a lot more in the full than the base versionMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   CapnMac | Mar 22, 2007 05:00pm | #7

   most architectural firms are using Autocad, or Revit

   And if they are using Revit, they are probably not in the residential market much, either (Revit is best for small things like airports, port facilities, campuses, that sort of project).  Revit is even less useful for residential construction than ADT.

   Almost better to find an architectural firm using TurboCad, or R14, or pencil-n-paper, for residential work--they are more likely to "be in touch" with actual residential construction.  But, that's my opinion, and others' differ.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 22, 2007 06:06pm | #8

   your mileage may varyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   gwsaltspring | Mar 22, 2007 06:30pm | #9

   FWIW

   I also think it is wise to define YOUR needs. (could be talking to myself here) I started swinging a hammer to fund University in the late 70's, with some paper and pencil designing skills I eventually struck out on my own, returned to school to learn Autocad, didn't like it much, grew bigger and hired cad skills, survived a divorce and realized I didn't need to work so much, let the crews go, picked up the tools again, doodled with Sketchup, got all excited about cad again, FUN!, but I didn't get the response (WOW) from clients that I experienced and have let the skills slide.

   I'm again getting overly busy. Bouncing, it would seem, from the shop to drafting table to jobsite. Pulled in all directions by clients and subs wants and timetables. Right now I could be doing a bunch of things, but I seem to be needing to think this through a bit and I now think that adding cad to my list of skills is just too much for me. My personal NEEDS are to slow things down, not pile more on top of what I am already doing.

   All that said, I must admit, if there was a cad course easily accessible to me, I might be tempted to give it another go, cad has such potential!

   Sorry for the rant, that was not my intention, your post just struck a chord. Think I will go order some stuff from Lee Valley and let the phone ring today.

   Cheers Greg

   BTW welcome to the group, I mostly lurk myself, some good people here with lots of info to share.

1. 
   jimcco | Mar 30, 2007 06:03pm | #19

   For start-up on CAD try local Tech schools or Jr Colleges. They will be mostly using Autocad but I found that 1 night /week for 2 semesters moved me from 0 to advanced user. If you are primarially interested in board type work look at AutoCad LT. It is essentially a 2 dimensional version of full Autocad but has some ability to loft to 3-d. Cost about $7-800 and is easier to learn with no solids.

2. 
   Snort | Apr 01, 2007 08:42pm | #23

   Check out your community colleges, my oldest son learned auto cad in 16 easy installments, and a major amount hair pulling<G>now, I've been trying to self-learn Vector Works for a year. I can get plans through inspections and planning, but building from them's another story... Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',

   The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.

   The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,

   Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Apr 02, 2007 05:43pm | #24

   I feel like a flack for Google Sketchup, but I've been working on my model this morning, and am now making a deal with someone who can doodle it with Photoshop, merging it to our site. 

   Attached is an example of what can be done.

   BTW, is the jack-up roof flare thing, done with a timbered detail, cool, or what?

1. 
   Snort | Apr 02, 2007 07:36pm | #25

   That's some impressive work. I dunno, the post and beam stuff for the flare is a little heavy handed for my simple taste, but I can see how it fit right in up where you are.Practice SketchUp, one more dang thing I gotta do<G> . Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',

   The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.

   The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,

   Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.

3. 
   katiewa | Mar 22, 2007 11:25pm | #10

   For anyone who might be interested, our son (middle school) is interested in architecture (among other things).  We were able to get him a student version of Chief Architect v.10 from http://www.studica.com for about $190.  The only difference between this and the full professional version is that anything you print out says "student version, not for commercial use" or something like that. 

   Kathleen

1. 
   MikeK | Mar 23, 2007 03:01am | #12

   << The only difference between this and the full professional version is that anything you print out says "student version, not for commercial use" or something like that.  >>

   Yes, and the watermark is very faint. Can be easily edited out of a PDF file. If you don't have a child in college, you can enroll in the local community college, get your ID card and get the discount.

4. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 23, 2007 03:14am | #13

   See the .pdf attached for an example of what Sketchup can do, using its new Layout extension.

   Here's a neat rendering, done in SU.  Look at the waney edge siding.

   View Image

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/22/2007 9:29 pm ET by Gene_Davis

1. 
   c0lin | Mar 23, 2007 04:53am | #15

   very cool   all the drawings were done on sketchup?

   Now that my trial version has run out I just might have to spring for the full version.

   is there a manual with that?  using the on line guide is to slow with  dial up.

   thanks.

    

    

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 23, 2007 05:18am | #17

   Yes, done in SU Pro 6 and using Layout for the 2D drawing.

   Those who say SU cannot produce construction drawings don't know the program, or haven't explored it deeply enough.

   Furthermore, SU can model all the detailed trim schemes and builtins you can imagine, do cabinet and door and drawer schemes and their cut lists, and you can use it to do a model of your wristwatch, or your cat, if you want.

   I know it ain't Chief, or Softplan, or Vectorworks, but what the heck, the price is sure right, and the community of users is soon to be much much larger than all the users of those big programs, combined.

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 30, 2007 02:13pm | #18

   colin..  i saw another program at JLC-Live.. that would probably fit yor needs to a "t"...

   called Envisioneer ( version 4 )  by Cadsoft.... i was very impressed with it and it looked to be a little more intuitive than Chief

   the guy giving the demo also had some interesting insight

   he felt that Chief was easier to learn than SoftPlan and Vectorworks.. and superior to both

   anyways.. get ahold of a demo cd for Envisioneer.. i think you'll like itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   c0lin | Apr 01, 2007 05:32pm | #20

   Mike

   Appreciate the continuing interest, The program you mention I have not heard about but it does sound like it is worth a look. I did check out a demo of "chief" once and it seemed to me that it was closely geared to the" home depot" school of design and  products. Nothing wrong with that but I do like to build things that are a little more interesting. Check out the april issue of Country Living , there is a straw bale house we built a few years back.

   I have't found any software that would make that any easier.

   cheers

   colin

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2007 06:31pm | #22

   You can do something like that with Softplan and from what littel I saw of Chief or Envisioneer, it is possible there too.
   Most of these are getting more power than we typically use but when you get to challenging yourself and pushing the edges of the envelope, you learn a lot more and find it a lot more fun 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2007 06:28pm | #21

   I was impressed with Envisioneer too, for only eight or nine hundred.He also siad that envisioneer was easier to leaarn and work than Chief. I tended to agree with him from watching him, but You know how a professional dancer makes it look easy...;_) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!