I need help finding a simple design software. I am a small remodeler in the Midwest. I want a software program that can help me draw basic kitchens, bathrooms, decks and basic buildings. I have 3D home architect 3.0 and I understand it, but it is pretty basic and I can’t print or e-mail 3D pictures. I can print 2D layout. I tried a cheap version of 3D 6.0 and I get confused and frustrated. Nothing works the same as the old program. I just want to design a simple remodel for people and with a few clicks rearrange elements of the plan, and then present the options to the customer. I don’t need landscape bushes and wallpaper choices. Thanks. I need help.
Replies
welcome to BT
first it will help in the futur if you put some info, like the state you live in, in your profile
second, there is a search function, use it to find CAD, design software
this topic comes up a lot
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I live in LeMars, Iowa. I put everything in the profile they asked for. I don't do the chat room thing. I don't have time. I usually don't know what I am doing in these chat rooms. I'm 50 years old and I only use the computer and the internet if I have to. I would rather work in the field than spend time in the office doing estimates and designs, even if it's bitter cold outside, like today. I get paid for work in the field and the office time is just (free estimates). When I started in this work Mrs. Smith would say I want this done and charge it at the lumber yard to her. Now everyone wants an estimate for everything no matter how small. I have built my own spreadsheets, with prices that I have to update, that I use for all my estimating and it really helps. I do all my estimates or bids on Word and oftentimes I e-mail them to the customer. Most guys in my area still hand write an estimate and go to the lumber yard to get pricing for each job. I just want to be more efficent in the getting my estimates back to people. Right now I am training my two sons and I am torn between where to spend my time, on the job or looking at work. I almost never look at work in the evening, I try to do it during the day. But the estimating can be so time consuming. You guys are right, I don't have much patience for the learning curve thing.
Knowing your budget for this would help. It5 sounds like you are trying to work with 5-35 dollar CAD programs which will never get you professional results. That is more like taking out a child's toy saw to cut a 2x4 instead of a $150 15 amp circ saw on the job.I use Softplan which will cost you over two grand unless you get the light version. Sketchup and Chief architect are both supposed to be easier touse and less expensive. Sketch is not a full tooled CAD program though. One like Chief, SP, or Vectorworks will do the job well for 3D viewing and printing, and they are object based, meaning a wall is not twpo lines on paper, buit an assembly of plates, sheathing, nails, etc that can show up on a list of materials for you.It sounds like you are already a step or two ahead of your competition bring technology to work for you. but you will need to decide how much you are willing to invest in the software and in training yourself to it.
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If I was buying new software, Sketchup is what it would be. Here is an example I clipped from their site.
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Here's another one.
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There's a second profile that is the one that the BT'ers are referring to. Click on your own name on any of these posts, and you'll see it. It's completely unrelated to the profile that has an explicit link to it at the top of the page.Rebeccah
I don't do the chat room thing. I don't have time.
This isn't a chat room. We don't have time either. (Although DW thinks I live on Breaktime.) it's a discussion borad where you post an answer and check back in a couple of hours and see who has an opinion (we all do).
I have Chief Architect, not quite the full version. Cost more than $1k. It's easy to use, until you want to do odd stuff. But if you want to do a quick drawing for a customer, you can create something very easily.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I use Vectorworks, which is a great program, but I think the learning curve may be more than you want to take on right now. It is full blown CAD with all the fixings. Heres an idea though, if you want to outsource some of your drawings, I am looking for moonlighting work. I could whip some drawings up for you. Just a thought.
Might be more than you're looking for, but worth a shot. Program's called SketchUp, it's a quick modeling program used by architectural firms. We keep talking about getting it (don't have it yet, aaarrrggghhh), but know a number of places that use it to rave reviews. Supposedly very intuitive, easy, down and dirty. Don't know the cost, but you can download a sample copy and try it out (I think it times out in 8 hours).
http://www.sketchup.com
A few guys over on JLC's board swear by sketchup. They use if very effectively, and on short notice.
Here's an example from http://www.garymkatz.com
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Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Edited 12/2/2005 1:15 pm ET by dustinf
I went over to the Sketchup user forum and saw this. Thought you might be interested. SU means Sketchup.
For me ... the SU route is quicker
1. for furniture ... I can grab concepts quicker for the client to review and comment on
2. for cabinetry and wine cellars I found I was duplicating efforts by doing a "rough" in tcad first. For a quote my process in SU is ...
a. input the walls and floor area as layers, these are then the "controls" for further drawings
b. quickly fill in the cabinets, shelving, etc by the use of simple boxes so that the client gets a quick feeling of how the units will fill the space. From these I can then generate a quick "ballpark" quote without spending lots of detail time before I know if I'm getting the job or not
c. also during this time since I'm working in 3d, I quickly find areas that are going to be "challenging" in the design and thus migh effect my quote.
d. do detail work after receiving deposit.
If it is a job that I "really" want, I take the time to do up a full detail layout, colored, etc. Then when I meet with the client I do prints and also take my laptop so that I can "walk" them through the design. Since the "clients" are often a combination of the owner and the builder/architect, I've found that my SU presentations have a "wow" and "quality" effect that immediately sets me apart from my competition. It's a win/win situation in that I'm not only impressing the owner, I'm impressing a builder/architect who might have other future work for me.
For new jobs with new people, I go by the "you never get another chance to make a good first impression" rule. Thus I want my stuff to have a bit of "wow" factor and SU does that for me.
Hey Gene, any idea how much the Sketchup software sells for?
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
I think it is $500. I downloaded a trial copy, full-functioned, but it times out after 8 hours of use.
The thing to do is to download it so you have it, then go on the Sketchup forum, on which many posts are made with examples. The Sketchup that you'll have will allow you to open and view the example files.
You can watch guys show how they can build a house, a kitchen, etc. Really cool.
Cargin, don't worry about you age and CAD! I didn't start using computers until I was 53, and started with SketchUp soon after that when I knew next to nothing about computering. If I can learn it Anyone can! The forums are where I learned it all .. asking questions and reading everyone elses questions. Real friendly and helpful group there!Everyone says it's the easiest CAD to learnI design and build decks, here's just one of my SUp designs. Nothing like presenting your ideas in 3D!
Thanks for the replies. I didn't expect replies so quickly. I'll give sketchup a try.
Thanks again.
I'm another one. Heard about Sketchup right here, gave it a try, became a true believer. Not only is it easy to learn it's fun.(You do need to have plenty of computer if you want it to do things like those renderings above)
Actually, I just found Sketchup while searching for something to use, and it was probably the 3rd or 4th program I came across.I'm using a Mac, so my options may be a bit more limited.I've played around with it for a day or so, and WOW, never seen anything else that was so simple but yet so powerful.They have about 10 free movie tutorials on their site that will make you come to the same conclusion - I've watched 3 of them so far.I'm sold on it - it's just what I was looking for.JT
Take a look at the Google Earth demo for Sketchup and the like. It's incredible how easy you can put together a quick and dirty proposal with this thing.
Like Piffin, I use Softplan http://www.softplan.com. the "Lite" vesion will take you a long way, and you can upgrade to full version later.
Softplan is full blown CAD program, used by many architects and home designers. Other advantages are plans avaliable in Softplan that can be purchased and imported into your program. Mods are easy. Alos, there si a forum exclusively for users, with awesome help if your are stumped. http://www.softplansplash.org.
I have used the program since 97 and can produce very professional drawings.
I just purchased the upgrade to Version 13.
I am sure there are others that alos work well, but SP has been great.
Someone posted SU was $500.00I went to their web site and I see SU lite close toa $1000.00. Am I missing something?
From the Sketchup site. Single user Sketchup V5, $495.
Where do you see it for $1,000?
SUp doesn't have a lite version, only versions for Mac and PC.
You must be confusing different programs. Sketchup is priced herehttp://www.sketchup.com/cgi-bin/store/trybuy.html
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paul..... i'm missing something.. when i looked at the sketchup site... i couldn't see how it could be easier or faster than SoftPlan or Chief....
or to put it another way... if i were starting out, it may be that SU would be an ideal way to start....but what can it do for me or you that SoftPlan or Chief can't do already... and not to mention learning still another program ?
looks like for $20 i could get an idea of the capabilities.... but from someone like you....... whassup ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm just an hour into the tutorial. It is raising some of the same questions in my mind. I plan to jump to the SPLASH sit elater to see what features specificly they are raving about.For me, I'm imagining two benefits likely.One is that for the concept phase, quick shape modeling might be easier, to get general ideas across to the client, or to thyrow their own ideas baack at them, "Is this what you mean?" or "This is why that will not work" for communication purposes.
but then I would need to redraft everything in SP probably to get fine detail design and fits. I'm not so sure whether I would be able to import drawings of any value.The other thing where I am sure that SU would be a good add-on to SP is that I often need to do special custom details. One I can remember is a room that fir in under a ganbrel roof. It was being converted to an ofice and some wall cab fit to the wall, custom buuilt. I needed to do line drawings with limited CAD tools for the shop and do a dummy 3D for the customer separately that involved plunking a standard wall cab in place which in the program was projecting throughthe roof, but did not show in the interior 3D view. I have since learned how to create a 3D model in other programs and import it to SP for such special situations. Right now, I am designing - or rather doing shop drawings for a slide-away bed to fit in under the cApe shape cieling in a room. It will disappear into the wall. In my mind, SU can do this easier than my SP can.SP has some new tools in their latest that might make this overlapp too. I have more playing and thinking to do before I buy. Overall, the SU looks easier to create models but harder to be accurate than SP so far. Have to be able to justify a separate program for concept work. Since a large portion of th evalue of my SP is the sales presentation of the 3D CAD, there may be value there, because creating that CAD moel is time consuming to do accurately in SP, time that could be wasted in some cases.
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Sketchup has a very compelling sales pitch in the video they show at the website, the one that shows the building with the sunken plaza in front, and then giving a walkthrough of the project, right in the program.
Their free viewer will allow a client to readily see a presentation you have prepared, one with a walkthrough, or a project moving as if going around it and over in a birdseye view, etc.
It is quite attractive to me, in thinking about another modeling program, because I enjoy doing furniture, cabinetry, and built-ins. What I use right now is Cadkey 97, which serves my needs, but requires a lot of work to produce a model. My occasional housebuilding projects don't justify me getting Chief Architect or another of the full-feature packages.
If you go to their user forum, and do a search on "kitchen cabinets," you will see a thread in which users have attached some great sequential SU models. It looks as if it is plenty detailed enough to do cabinetry and furniture parts to exact scale.
One other thing about Sketchup I didn't mention. There seems to be a very large and growing library of components, all of it free. Did you see those for construction? It looked to me as if just in structural steel, for example, the x-sections for most all the wideflanges you could use are available.
I did not see that yet, but assumed a library because I saw components in use in the video.That sampling of the site with terainmodifications is interesting as a sales pitch, but I have to know how hard it would be to get it accurate to true site. I have some ideas - probably import a survey topo map and then trace the topo lines to guide the pull tool
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I have used the import feature to bring in stuff and trace it. Very easy to do.
paul... all of the things you are describing are in Chief.. and some of the power users can whip up the details fairly fast..
chf has full terrain modeling.. rendering.. walkthrus.. yada , yada, yada.. the problem is in building the accurate model.. there are so many items in the x,y,& z axis that it is just not worth the time to develop them accurately...
i just went to a dual monitor, dual processor system.. and i think that is going to improve my speed immensely
of course, most of what we're doing is superfluous.. what we really need are accurate construction drawings... and i get that fairly fast with chf.
the 3d views are great in conveying the plan to the customer... with the little editorial comments like..."pay no attention to that thing sticking out of the wall.. it really isn't supposed to be there"... hah, hah, hah
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thyere is always a way it CAN be done in SP or Chief, but the key question is can it be done easier one way than another or by another program. I don't think there is anything that absolutely cannot be done in SP, especially with what I see in the list of new toys'n'tools with version 13. It's all about speed and efficiency. For instance, nmy BIL was just over with questions about one I've designed for him. "What if we..." Of course, I could visualise the scenario immediately, but to redraw things to show him in SP would have taken a half hour or so. With this sample version of sketchup, I modeled the shape in less than ten minutes. No details, windows etc, but the massing to demonstrate what he was considering, and he could see the problems with it.So would it be worth five bills?I haven't come to that conclusion yet. If I were a full time designer, undoubtedly!
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Apples and oranges.SU and SP are in different classes as tools. Backhoe versus bulldozer. Each has its own strengths, and they can be used to do some of the same tasks, but not efficiently. Sketchup is not a CAD tool and it's not a production tool for making construction documents. Maybe better to call it a RAD tool, for making schematic design studies and prototypes. Output is proof-of-concept models, not production models.
you're talking over my head... so... what would i get from SU that i can't get from Chief...
i can do concept in Chief.. i would imagine SoftPlan can rough out some things pretty easy also..
sometimes i think i'd like to be able to mark up my designs.. sort of etch-a-sketch .. but really .... what is it that SU does that Chief or SoftPlan doesn't ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I previously used standard 2D CAD for my furniture projects (SmartSketch from Intergraph). I switched to SketchUP one year ago and do everything in 3D model before going to the shop. I've attached a Timber Frame building I'm constructing now. The details are done in the model. This is not just a schematic system. All construction details are output for each component and joint detail. I create full-size templates from SU for all joint layout. No need to supplement with a CAD system.
Tim
killen.. pretty impressive..
do you draw in full scale ? 12" to the foot ? Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Killen, how come we never see your work on the SUp forums??I'd sure like to see more of it!
I do a lot of looking through the SU forum, but I have not posted any of my work. I do detailed furniture like the attachment. I do every component and joint in detail before the construction in shop. The accuracy is enhanced and chances for error are way down. I keep the model design ahead of the work in the shop. But I go back and forth between the design model and shop, always anticipating in the model what I need to know in the building process
Tim
I don't deal with any scales.... everything in the model is full size. When I print views of the model, I don't worry about printing to scale. I just print the desired view on the screen directly to paper.
I do print out full size when making templates. All the joints in this Timber Frame are printed out full size on regular paper. Then I glue to poster board to cut out the template. I use these to mark the timbers. Using templates minimizes chance for measurement errors on these large timbers.
Tim
Man that is so frickin' cool, words almost fail me. Seeing that I could imagine some company coming up with a precut module that would allow you to go straight from Sketchup to the Hundegger machine, or even to a 2x4 precut system.My computer would get kinda pokey using Sketchup for something that detailed. What is the spec of your workstation?
I do my design work on two different machines that are automatically synchronized on my design models. One machine is an HP laptop.... nothing special. The other desktop, a homebrew, is a Pentium 4 nothing unusual. These models are not very big and I have very fast response.
I'm not doing a lot of texturing and visualization enhancement. I work in the default portrayal which is very efficient. The more realism, for example wood grain texturing, would take more power in the machine.
Tim
I wish I had that automatic machine you mentioned. I have a room full of machines but none of it was any help on these timbers. I had to manage with hand saws and large chisels and slicks. The only power was the battery operated hand drill to help with the mortises. See attached collage of the handwork.
Tim
You might like to have use of such machine, but I'd bet you'd not like to make the payments on it.
Dude, that timberframe model is excellent! I don't know that I've seen anyone take Sketchup to that degree for fabriacation details like you have. Any idea approximately how long it took to create the drawings/details for that project?
Bob
BobKovacs, I have not tracked my time in developing the timber frame model. I started the design in August of this year and went through several alternatives before settling on the basic sizes of timbers and joints.
I have continually worked on the model over the last 3-month period. It was very rough at first to supply just enough information for the procurement of timbers (in this case old growth redwood). At that stage there were no detail joint designs.
The modeling detail was very interactive with the construction process. I would work the model at night only providing sufficient detail to work the next stage of construction. I have much more detail to add when I enclose the timber frame and develop the windows and doors. I will also add all the trim.
I am estimating between 125 to 175 hours of work in the model. If I were doing in 2D CAD the time would be about the same, but I don't get the advantages of the 3D. In 2D you can't get the visualizations (I can spin any component and joint in the model from any angle, printing out multiple views). I also get more integrity in the 3D model. In 2D I would risk discrepancies of dimensions between the different views. Also in 3D it is much easier to "test" the connections of the joints, that they are fitting properly. In 3D, I can turn on the "xray" view and check the alignment of all joints.
Tim
Killen, you Should post your work on the SUp forum. There are quite a few woodworkers there who'd love to see it! (me included)
Very impressive,All this w/$500.00 sketchup?you have anything else you care to share w/us?
Can any of the programs you all are talking about do an automatic materials take-off and generate prints? I'm visualizing drawing up a room addition but drawing it in a "visual" manner as opposed to a "bones & skin" manner then having the software output the materials and a print. Struggling here to explain what I mean....hope it's clear.
Vectorworks, Softplan, & Chief all generate materials lists.. but there is only so much automation..
every component in the design has to be set... ( with check boxes, sizing dialogues, colors, textures, and materials ).. the more background set up you do , the more accurate the materials list..
some of the power users can generate extremely accurate house plans and print them out in an 8 hour day.. but they are working new construction , same specs, same type of construction, with a lot of pre-set plans
also... all 3 ( and lots of others , too ) will print full or any size drawings..
whatever the capability of your printer..
you can generate rudimentary plans right out of the gate.. but they are rudimentary...
when you start tweaking the plans to conform to code, and changing the specs, and doing redraws... etc..
the set i'm working on right now is 7 mg.. a realtively "simple " cape
the more organized you are, the faster the process..
and as killinwood pointed out, you design & work in full scale.. but when you send the design to the printer you scale it to fit the paper
without having seen SketchUp.. i would guess it is more intuitive than some of the others..... Chief full version is up to around $1300, Softplan.... what? $2500 ?? Vectorworks ?????? say $3K ??
Autocad is around $4 k-- $5K ..... AutoCad Lite say $2K ?....these are all guesses on my part.. I haven't checked prices....
to manipulate those kinds of files , you do a lot better with more powerful computers.. i make a concious effort to upgrade my computer everytime a new version of Chief comes out..... which means i get a new computer every two years or so.. i started with version 5.0 ( Chief 97) and i've upgraded every time all the way to the present version 10.07... so , that's 5 upgrades in 8 - 9 years..
it gets pretty frustrating when you move a wall one inch, and then wait for 30 seconds for a new 3d view to generate.. so you need very powerful graphics capabilities to best use these programs on a regular basis
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In my pre-Pentium days, my first version of SP V( could take an hour to genrate a 3D view on a complicated textured image. now, I doubt I ever wait more than twenty seconds. Just to underline your point that the machine needs to match the software. I wonder how many people don't realize that every version upgrade takes more power. For instance just the size of the operating system - I have a relative who wanted to upgrade from windows 95 to Windows XP. The OP would have been using 89% of his machine so nothing much else would ever happen. I talked him into buying a new machine with XP already inside.I more or less do the same as you - upgrading the PC when I upgrade the software.
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It sure costs a lot to play with the big dogs! New high end software, new computer to run it....I'm thinking about all the tools I could buy with that money! Drool! Wish there was something at the $100 level. Oh, right.....the pencil and paper is! :-)
I started this thread and I have been reading every post even though most of it is over my head and budget. I down loaded the Sketchup and I plan to use the 8 hours this winter to expand my skills. I have used my 3D Home architect 3.0 to plan changes in room layout. I have done several handicap bathrooms were I had to work with limited space and budget and it was very handy to move objects and walls and print out options for the HO. In the paper days I would draw up basic outline and then go to a copier and print out 10 copies and do my alterations. I can also do a better job filing my drawing and estimates for future use, on computer than I can on paper. And it looks more professional than my drawings. I have a $9.99 bargain bin version of 3D HA 6.0 but I probably need to buy the $50 version and learn it. And keep learning Sketchup when work is slow.
My problem is that I may go a month or two before I need to draw again and I can't always remember how to use the programs as well as I should. Top it off by being in a hurry and not getting paid to do these drawings and I get frustrated. As with everything, you get out of it what you invest in it.
But I thank you guys for the input. I get Fine Woodworking and Cabinet Maker magazines, not because I have the time to build furniture of want to start a cabinet shop but because they expand my thinking and help me to have a bigger vision of where I want to go in life and business. Thanks again for all the discussion.
a room addition would be best designed with paper & pencil.. and then do a take-off to get your materials list... if all you want is a room addition.. don't bother with any CAD program... you can do an awful lot of drawing on a 2x3 drawing board & a piece of paperMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In response to Mike's comment about room additions: I use Softplan for room additions. It is nice, once the HO's plan ideas are accomplished to be able to copy and paste, and create some suggested alternatives to the HOs plan. Pencil, Tsquare an triangle work make this much more difficult.
Further:
Someone exploring CAD could probably start with one of those $49.00 programs, like Home Architect. I looked at one of these programs and was impressed.
I think Softplan newest Version (13) is $2,795.00, and Softplan Lite is less than 1/2 of full version. Lite users can upgrade to the full version later.
Softplan is like a 16 story building, it has lots of levels, but lots of professional work can be accomplished after the first three floors.
We build custom homes which occupies most of my time, leaving only necessary and required room for CAD work. No real time for discovery of all 16 floors. I just upgrade to V13, staying current in preparation for my later years (I am now 51) when I would rather work at home designing than be out building. I think this is another thing to consider for contractors / builders who may grow weary of sitework. I have seen and found that some of the best designers are builder / contractors with experience.
I spent some time at Splash and it is apparently easy to import an entire DXF model for rotational viewing and surface adjustments. It is a bit harder to throw it back into SP. Here is a bit of text quoted from the Splash forum"SU imports SP 3d and 2d dxf's flawlessly.
This means any dxf model you generate and export from SoftView will be usable in SU and contains all the SP layers.
I use it almost always instead of developing the final rendering in SP as I like the "look" of SU.
More of a hand rendered "architectural" look and less of a computer generated look. The clients really notice.
I also like the ability to rotate real-time and access the layers that V12 had but were more or less unavailable in SP. Nice for clients in - office.
For example I can change any group of window attributes at once (such as trim or glazing or colour). (I use color by layer for this)
I also like the landscaping functions better. (2d "Face me" trees that always face the camera for EG)
The other main reason to import/export back and forth is to develop models in SU for import to SP. It is very easy to make custom shapes in SU that import to SP for making into 3d symbols-again complete with layers.
I'll bet one of the biggest reasons for using SU is it's just plain fun. Seriously addicting. I have had it thru 3 versions and I am still looking for excuses to use it.
I hope I answered your question here.
Essentially if you generate a model in SoftView and export a DXF you can import it in SU and vice versa.
House models are easier and faster in SP but solids and renderings in SP are very limited and awkward as of V12."
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I have seen many SP users talk of using SU for 3d and modeling,. I am not sure if any of the SP users have V13 yet. There may be improvements in V13 that even the score.
SP Lite may be the ticket for those not needing the complexiies of Full SP. They can also upgrade later.
Personally, I am happy with SP.......glad I made the investment in 1997. V13 should arrive at my office soon.
Good post on the development, business strategies and cons of ACAD. I have seen post in Splash of several converted ACAD users who now use SP and will never go back.
It is good to have a program dedicated to residential, and one recommended by NAHB.
< confusing different programs.>That is exactly what I'm doing
I have not used SU. I am a Softplan user, but will try the SU demo soon.
I have noticed many SP users using SU as a compliment to SP.
Sketchup is better than ketchup. :)
What about Autodesk...any of their current products considered the "standard" tool. I understand employees are entitle to one licensed program at five hundred dollars. Something I've considered...calling up a old friend and wishing me a Merry Christmas!!! I've years of experience with Cad...AutoCad, Cadkey and ProE. Thanks all.
rustbucket
On bigger commercial jobs and space ships, autodesk has a program for you, or for simple 2D drafting they have Autocad lite, but they don't have object oriented CAD. The lite version has no 3DThey own a massive market share because eaarly on they used the same market strategy that Bil Gates did with MS windows. Buy up all the competiotion you can, and put it on the shelf to reduce the competition. aCAD is the biggest, but is far from the best for many applications, this venue being one of them. The learning curve is the longest in the industry. That leaves thjem out of the running for those of us who do any other work in our businesses also.
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I like full version as I can go from simple 2D walls, cable runs, foundations, to a 1/50,000' closure on a 200 acre tract with 40-50 boundary points. It'll force closures on any figure that is provided with coordinates, verticle or horizontal. Figures quantities on irregular shapes also. Dirtwork, concrete, insulation, anything.Off yer azz and on yer feet,
Outta th' shade and into the heat.
I use AutoCad LT for 2d stuff, and I really like it. But it's up to $7-800 now so I can't afford to upgrade. They also sell a product called AutoSketch for about $125 that is very similar, and compatible, but again 2d only. IMHO, if you needed 2d only, AutoSketch would be the way toi go.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If you are comfortable with AutoCad LT you might take a look at Intellicad. In a previous life I worked as a drafter using Acad R14 and 2000 and found the migration to Intellicad pretty painless- the commands are the same or similar. The newest versions offer solid modeling capability (I need to upgrade) for half or less of what LT costs. It's available from several different vendors .......... free downloads are available so you can try it.
http://www.intellicadms.com/ http://www.cadopia.com http://www.autodsys.com/
I like AutoCad 2000, and have been using it for about 4 years since I upgraded from 14. The learning curve is a little steeper than some other CAD programs, but it also has many more options. You can design battleships or bathtubs in virtual full scale. The layering allows you to place everything on the sketch, from foundation to finished interiors, and turn them off and on. The program can be used in conjuction with CNC production equipment for cab parts. Become proficient, and you can sell your services as a design sub, if you like. You can find it at AutoDesk.
Off yer azz and on yer feet,
Outta th' shade and into the heat.