Replies

1. 
   George_Lentulo | Nov 07, 2000 08:40am | #1

   *
   Les,

   Sounds like a plan to me. My point of view has become that the plan is just a plan - that's all. Nothing to get worked up about.

   The builder's art is exactly that - an art. And while it's definitely true that one should be able to pick up a set of plans and be able to build it - w/o confusion - a lot does gets left to us. Dimensions wrong, intersecting beams drawn in as though they could just float in the air, lack of details, etc. - It used to drive me nuts - no more. Now, I just move that window over a tad to where I want it to work out (to borrow your casing example). It's a team effort, and every intelligent architect I've met realizes that.

   Sorry I don't have an interesting story.

   Geo.

1. 
   teo_ | Nov 07, 2000 08:59am | #2

   *I have a friend who framed the architect's plan for her Grandma's home drawn some 60 years ago. The drawings consisted of a floor plan and four beautiful elevations. Basically it says, "build it to look like that". Sometimes I wonder how things got so complicated.

1. 
   George_Abramshe | Nov 07, 2000 09:36am | #3

   *I did interior trim in a development that had 26 homes, same builder, same architect. Every house used 3 and 1/2 in casing on all the doors with 4" wide plinths and rosettes. Whenever a door was in the corner of the room (or a window also) he never added an extra stud to keep us from cutting the trim. This clown was informed after the first house and drew up 25 more sets of prints without ever making a change over two years. We went though 8 or 9 framers so the next guy didn't make any adjustments , he just framed to the plan. The architect knew after day one but couldn't understand why he needed to change what he had been doing for years. Now every house has at least 2 or 3 windows and doors with casing ,plinths,rossettes,sills or aprons ripped or cut short. All he had to do was add one more stud to every window or door that came out of a corner. I guess he's the next Frank Lloyd Wrong.

1. 
   Boss_Hog | Nov 07, 2000 01:44pm | #4

   *This is one of my pet peeves also. You can search the archives for a thread called "lousy blueprints" and find a lengthy discussion about this.

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke_ | Nov 07, 2000 03:10pm | #5

   *i Designers should use a hammer first.Les, I couldn't agree more. I guess, Les is more.

2. 
   RonK_ | Nov 07, 2000 07:41pm | #6

   *I was a custom home builder for 20 years building high end houses. If a client ever brought me architect drawn plans, the first thing I would do would be to tear them up. I would then tell the client that I would build them a home looking like their plans but to my dimensions and criteria. I got tired of bathroom counters sticking past the door jambs, Fireplace's not centered between the inside walls of the room etc etc.I never figured out what they learned in their many years of so called training.signed.Very Anal Engineer.

3. 
   mike_wattles | Nov 07, 2000 08:32pm | #7

   *I did 6 yr of architecture at college after a few yr of renovation work and odd jobs and enjoyed an arts based course reading, sketching and in the darkroom... Now would anyone like to offer me a job working on site as chief carpenter or maybe general sofa. My last I/I job was architectural assistant at Lord Norman Foster and Partners, London UK. No kidding, I have a US passport an interest in US frame building and I'm game for a laugh!

4. 
   Ron_Budgell | Nov 07, 2000 09:29pm | #8

   *A window retailer told me a good one this morning. He went to look at a replacement window job in a house addition put on about 15 years ago. The large wooden casements were collapsing, joints giving way and glazing units all gassed. The architect had had the builder remove the brick mould and run the siding onto the window jambs to attain some artistic goal which now seems dated at best. It's been leaking for anything up to 15 years. The result was to turn a simple window replacement into 3 or 4 days work per unit.

5. 
   Jeff_Clarke_ | Nov 07, 2000 11:16pm | #9

   *i Fireplace's not centered Well, among other things we learned that plurals don't have apostrophes to make them look possessive.

6. 
   B_Novick | Nov 08, 2000 05:04am | #10

   *I'm building a $30,000.00 front porch right now. Lots of detail work as you can imagine. The prints are pretty good, but there are always questions. My client was in a car accident last week, she has been home off work now for five days. Since she is around, we are able to ask her "Do you want this or this?". Client says to me today, " Boy it sure is a good thing I've been home, how else would you build this?" I just told her that we would have just done it the "Frank Sinatra" way (my way).How about those clients who do not even understand the prints and do not like what they had drawn?Barry

7. 
   Les_Bellamy | Nov 09, 2000 03:44am | #11

   *B. Novick, Good question ( what about people who don't understand the prints....). Most home owners do not understand blue prints. It is important for the designer to spend the time with the client. To many designers tell the client what they want instead of the other way around. The hardest part is getting the same picture in my head that the client has. Ask them for photos from a magizene or pictures of other houses to try and clear up those questions. I try to provide extra cross sections to get a better picture.3d is probably the best way to make sure you are drafting what they want. unfortunately I use auto cad and it's very,very time consuming to do 3D. I find most of the 3D architectural software doesn't give me the structural detail I want. The good software is about $3000.00 U.S. I'm from Canada so I think that is about a million Canadian. ( I just love our dollar ). I have never had a client unhappy with my work. ( I hope it never happens )I think if a client was truly unhappy I would offer to redraw the plans at a very reduced price.Word of mouth can quickly destroy you. I would rather lose a little than a lot latter. If you have problems with the plan call the designer. They love to put there name and number on the plans, so call them and let them know how you feel. ( deplomicy is best, but it feels great to tell him he's an idiot and should get a job pumping gas.).( Sorry,no offence to the gas guys out there) When I first started out as a framer, the drywallers never hesitated to bitch obout missing backing.

8. 
   B_Novick | Nov 09, 2000 05:15am | #12

   *Les,On a recent job, I got the prints from the homeowner. The architect happened to be a neighbor down the street. I had never heard of this guy before, so I called him, introduced myself, told him when I was starting the job, and asked him to stop by the job site so I could meet him in person. The guy has never come by, even now that the job has been complete for six months, the homeowners tell me he has never come over to see the finished job!BTW, the prints were good and we never had a question that the client could not answer.Barry

2. 
   Les_Bellamy | Nov 09, 2000 05:17am | #13

   *
   Just wanadering how many of you are frustrated with designers plans that just don't work. I am a framing contractor and have had to correct these mistakes on site way too often. The designer recieves a cheque when he's done. We recieve a cheque after we have corrected his mistakes.Many times I have talked to these people to help correct the problems. ( leave some room for casing, A 3 ply 2x10 is 4.5" not 6" etc.) I have found only one sollution to this problem. I BECAME A DRAFTSMEN. The framers love my plans because they work. I even put measurements where you really need them. Imagine that.This is not an advertisment, I just want to hear some stories