Dewalt buys Milwaukee, porter-cable???
Canabuild
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I was just told by a tool rep at my local lumber yard that Dewalt bought Milwaukee and Poter-cable. I was first in a state of shock, then as a diehard red tool lover, went onto a state of disbelief…How can this be true???? Will all tools be junk now with a yellow and black paint job???
If anyone could clairify this for me, it would be much appreciated.
keep on poundin’
Replies
I thought B&D (pretty much DeWalt) bought PC and
....GULP.....
Ryobi( or the parent co.) bought Milwaukee!!!
I can't remember exactly but what ever the scenario it doesn't bode well for the tool buyer.
Cor.
yep -- B&D bought Porter Cable/Delta. the holding compnay for Ryobi bought Milwaukee. We'd all better start looking more carefully at European tools -- they seem to be the only ones in the marketplace determined to hold quality a a high level.
I was dissapointed to hear that DEWALT has bought out EMGLO air compressors.
Good Lord!
Soon, we'll all be back to using hatchets and building wattle and daub
LOL
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Yea I know.. I'm starting to buy nice hand tools, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, antique Stanley etc.., to feed me tool fix. Maybe..just maybe..something good will come of it. I'm old school, PC, Milwaukee, made up most of my power tools but their quality has been slipping already.Case in point, I needed a belt sander NOW!!! Went to local tool store and quickly narrowed it down to the the PC. But I recalled reading about the Dewalt and compared the 2. DW has better specs and it better made. Metal drive gears, where PC has plastic. I was also impressed with the design and having been a PC fan recalled how often they either don't upgrade, use real old designs, or design ridiculus tools ( remember the hand block power plane? It was so dangerous they redesigned it to use little sanding drums-about 1" x 1/2" and actully made it worse!) My only PC tool now is the Quicksand ROS and while it works it doesn't collect dust at all! Messy....I've since bought several more DW tools. Miter saw stand, and 13" planer, and DW55155 compressor. All 3 are different thatn what anyonme else has and despite complaints from other I find they are flawless in my experience.Anyway my point is maybe the engineers at BD/DW will help refine PC.Is this defined as whistling in a grave yard?Cor.
I don’t own any yellow tools, however it looks like I will some day when if I want to buy anything new.<?xml:namespace /><o:p />
<o:p />What are all the brands that BD/Dewalt control or own now?Scott R.
Black and Decker, Dewalt, Delta, Devilbiss, Oldham
So where did miller falls go?
My MF saw is still in use as a masonry cutter. darn thing just won't die.
I think the companu got absorbed by Rockwell
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Refine???????I have several PC tools that have never needed any help.I have several DW tools that have broke down due to poor engineeering, tho after talking to guys in their service dept, I have the definite impression that the engineering/developement guys hate their marketing people because they keep pushing a new design to market before it is time, prefering to capture market share and deal with complaints by recall later.To be sure - DW always sent me free parts for defective stuff even after warrantee was gone, but I would rather have a good tool to start with, and I had to work hard on the phone to get satisfaction.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea..I'm not a great fan of DW, I just feel they should get some accolades when deserved. Overall their line is weak IMO and can't think of another one of their tools I want.BTW I was waiting for a sevice tech at the local tool repair. They handle just about all tools. I noticed their was 3 shelves of Milwaukee, a bit more than one for Bosch, Makita and PC and less than one for DW! Conclusions: a)more people repair their Milwaukees b) more Milwaukees break. c) there are more milwaukees. d) there are not as manytools bought other brands. e) people throw away their DW when they break. Pick one.Another notice ALL the DW were about 8 drills, mostly cordless. Mil. was a sampling of their line. The past year alone I've returned more tools than the previous 20 combined! I shop return policy as much as price nowadays.
Edited 12/4/2004 8:12 pm ET by Corrado
Only repair I've ever needed from a PC or a Milwaukee was switches or cords.DW has had bad metals, and bad electronics. Lot of recalls on cordless for starting fiores and overheatings.Ryobi - just throw it awayBosch? - One part - one time, probably from my own abuse, they sent part for free.skil? - what a waste of time - but that was in the seventies. Five different tools hit the bucketMakita - has some decent strong motors and a strong marketing program, but nothing I get excited about. But a quarter of my hand held tools are propbably from them, and many are American made.FWIW, I'll probably bwe leaning more heavily to Bosch in the near future.
I fail to get too concerned about these mergers, because for examople, Skil and Bosch merged a few years ago. One of the best and one of the worst, and neither has lost their identity.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was talking to a friend last night who is an engineer for Milwaukee Tool. The company that finished buying Milwaukee is basically a holding company, and as far as Milwaukee is concerned, they aren't interested in dropping their quality. They bought a lot of the company about 6 years ago. I'll be talking to him again on Monday, so I'll get a clarification on the connection to B&D, Delta and PC. The Delta site is actually the Delta/PC site now, so you know they are the same company. It says nothing about B&D or DeWalt.Right now, the price for anything made with steel or cast iron is going up because the world market for these materials is insane. The companies have absorbed the cost increases as long as they can, but they need to increase them soon. He has been working on a design for a new contractor grade, sliding compound miter saw at a particular price point for 2 years now. They may have a hard time hitting that point if the metals market stays the way it is.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
i'd sure like to see that saw you metioned, i hope it will come out. Milwuakee's ten inch compuond mitre saw was the first one I've ever used and i feel a little nostalgic about it.-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
Corrado, when I started my career, there were only two types of saws on the jobs. Porter Cable (anyone remember the 508?), and Rockwell (I trained on a metal cased 315). The rockwells were decent saws. The 508 had power and quality bearings and when you pulled the trigger, the saw would spin for fifteen minutes! Those saws were built so well that they still work today...just like new.
Well, Rocwell bought out Porter Cable and the era of planned obsolescence began. Rockwell shelved all the porter cable stuff and brought out the first plastic cased saws...which sucked. After about two years they began losing substantial market share to Milwaukee. In fact I switched because the "American Made" Rockwell was cheap homeowner junk. In an effort to swing the tide, they literally slapped new "Porter Cable" stickers over the already on the shelf Rockwell junk. I guess they thought us carpenters were too dense to realize what they did.
The real porter cable company died in the early 80's. Todays junk is just the dust settling.
I've intentionally avioded most "Made in America" junk because the planned obsolescence length of service is so short.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
A Sensible Woodworker!
Spock....wake up! your the only one in this site that thinks I'm a woodworker!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Hey, I love my lil PC plane.....buit then I've got the old Rockwell doorplaners kit (1/2 horse motor with a door plane shoe & ####fixed base....)....those helical carbide bits move shavings much better than straight blades.....it's too finicky for production door hanging, but I got it lots cheaper than what PC wants for their reintroduced door plane...
You'd stopped? <G>Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
Guess who's buying all the tool companies? Well that wouldbe good old Home Depot. Pray for us. They own a major stake in BD, Ryobi and Rigid
If I were so concerned about purchsing a new tool I would ask the guy at the tool repair shop that works on all brands if it is any good or not. They have steered me away from problem tools before and I was thankful about that. It seems like a lot of those so called American Tools are made in Mexico now. My Porter Cable drill batteries lasted much longer than my Bosch batteries, I am now using a Panasonic and am much happier with it. I would certainly look at the europian tools more in the future for possible quality- or is it the grass is allways greener on the other side?
If you're talking about European cordless tools, I don't know if they make chargers for the 120V 60~ market. The price of the converter would make it worth sticking with the current offerings here.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Portland Jim...good suggestion.
The tool repair guy can tell you which tools need the most work. I follow their recomendations unless there's some other issue that forces me in another direction.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I do the same thing, one reason why I like to bnuy tools locally. A little chit chat wityh the guys who handle them daily is telling. You don't get so much of that from Amazon, tho they do have some feedback reports available online, for what they are worth
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hi,
I mentioned this in another thread. I was at a repair counter and waiting for the guy and had some time to look and see what was on the shelves. I expected to see tons of DeWalts and Ryobi type tools but was suprised at what i saw.Here's a quote from that post:
"I was waiting for a sevice tech at the local tool repair. They handle just about all tools. I noticed their was 3 shelves of Milwaukee, a bit more than one for Bosch, Makita and PC and less than one for DW! Conclusions: a)more people repair their Milwaukees b) more Milwaukees break. c) there are more milwaukees. d) there are not as manytools bought other brands. e) people throw away their DW when they break. Pick one.Another notice ALL the DW were about 8 drills, mostly cordless. Mil. was a sampling of their line."Once again I didn't speak to anyone about it. Could've been minor repairs to Mil. and serious problems on the others. My personal experience with power tools the past couple years, and I have a mix of Bosch, PC, Mil, DW Panasonic, Hilti, Lamello etc..has been they are all equall. Only the PC sander has minor dust collection problems and a Bosch jigsaw the blade lock is sticky. Keeping them out of other hands helps keep them in good condition.Cor.
They're all made in China now anyway- whadaya want?! I sincerely doubt that ANY of these tools today are actualy made 100% from parts made in a 1st world country. Why would they be? These are price-sensitive items for the most part. Assembling these things is a pretty low-tech job. Most of the value is in the design and the materials selection. India and China are making far more complex stuff that this these days...
Some of these mfgs are making money off their brand rep and loyalty by dropping the quality. Whereas maybe 15-20 yrs ago there wasn't anything in Makita's line that was "cheap" homeowner quality crap, now there's lots. How else can they make a 1/2" hammer drill to sell for $99.00 CDN, except by dropping the quality of the construction and the cost of the labour to assemble it? I have one, and it's a piece of crap. But there are still fine tools in Makita's line- you just don't buy the bottom model. Fortunately, I got most of my Makita stuff years ago, before the slide. Paid dearly for it, though, by today's prices...
We buy lots of Dewalt factory refurb stuff (drills and angle grinders) for our factory. Tools get used HARD there- we're drilling steel all day. The refurb stuff works, is reasonably designed, and is cheap. Nice thing about a refurb is that you KNOW somebody tested it at least once...We don't bother to repair the drills, except maybe to put a new chuck on them. Nobody will warrant hand power tools if they know they're being used in an industrial application anyway.
From what I've seen, the biggest problem with Dewalt is the cordless stuff. We've got six 18V drills at work and the batteries DO go bad, the chucks are low-grade etc.- but they survive surprisingly well. I've got DW circ saw, 12" mitre saw and thickness planer and love them all.
I don't know where ALL of the Milwaukee stuff is made, but they have a plant in Misssissippi or Arkansas and a lot of the refurbs go through there. The design is done just west of Milw and the repair center is right there, too. Part of the problem with imports is in the pricing and the import duties and tarrifs. If it's a finished product, they get hit hard. If it comes in as a subassembly or parts and the assembly is done here on in a country the US doesn't tax as hard, the price is lower. Same reason the import car makers have factories here, as well as the fact that they don't need to ship big, heavy cars here.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Did Rockwell continue to use the 315 model number when they started making junk?
I dont do a lot of framing, occasional but mostly less than a few 18v batteries worth on a small trim saw, but if I blow through those I bring out the metal bodied Rock 315 I think its from '71-73 maybe. Any reason to replace it, or should I drive 'er til she pukes? oh and Im right handed and the blade is on the right.
Zendo, I believe they added a letter..or called it a 325 or 315a...I don't remember.
All I remember is that I was sad.
I'd run it till it died, then buy a makita...13 amp. I don't like the 15amp.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I don't know what Makitas you were buying twenty years ago, but I had a hard time bu7ing them because of the CHEAP written all over them. They had a strong marketing plan and strong motors, but everything ELse was XCHEAP, from handles, to switches, to cords, to base plates, to design flaws, to models on posters - well maybe not that last one....I happen to think that they are still a middle of the road tool company, but that they have improved in the past twenty years and I own a higher percentage of my tools in that blue colour now than then.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piff,
I can't say for sure because I haven't purchased any in a year or two, but Bosch tools "look" as though they've taken a slide down the quality scale recently. What ya think? Some of their new models look like a hollow plastic cylinder with some metal parts bolted on.
kcoyner
kcoyner,
I just got the new Bosch 1591 barrel-grip jig saw. Made in Switzerland. I was surprised by how heavy it was for it's size - there is obviously more than plastic in this thing (and is it sweet to operate)! Now, at the other end of their line... I had a total POS Bosch consumer grade jig saw in the 70's that scared me away from Bosch for years. I've heard their low end stuff is made in China now - as is anyone's who wants to compete in today's big box marketplace.
Wayne
I picked up a DW 18 volt set before I knew better, and have lived to regret it. I love the circular saw, and flashlight, but the hammerdrill and recip saw are gathering dust (i am using a 12v Makita impact, and 12 V makita drill body) I think the most compelling evidence about what people are using is whats on Ebay....
480+ dewalt items and oh, 14 panasonic drills. I am keeping my eyeball on the 15.6 panasonics, but i am not sure I want another battery system in my life.
Jeff
me thinks the quality of the Panasonics will more than make up for having to carry another battery - probably the only regret will be that Panasonic doesn't make more cordless tools
My dad bought a Black and Decker 3/8" drill in the 1940s. It was a sweet thing to use- cast aluminum case without a piece of plastic anywhere, nice balance and fit the hand perfectly- not one of those short, fat pieces of crap that they made later on- and long before the orange and yellow plastic stuff was on the market. He used that drill hard- he did more work with it than five ordinary men- both professionally and in "retirement" building machinery for what to him was"fun" that most people (myself included) would consider hard full-time work. You've got to know the guy to believe it- still building machinery at 90... Dunno how many tens of thousands of holes it drilled in steel- but it built at least 100 bandsaws, another hundred cutoff saws, about fifty 4x8 trailers- that's just the stuff I can remember off-hand. After about ten sets of brushes, umpteen cords and a couple chucks, the old thing finally gave up the ghost. He bought a "new" Black and Decker Professional about 20 years ago- when there still was such a thing, and it was burned out in two weeks. He took it back and got a Makita which is still going strong after 20 years. The fact he didn't fry it in a year or two convinced me that I should buy Makita.
I've got a stack of blue stuff and wouldn't be parted with any of it- except that POS 1/2" hammer drill I bought four or five years ago. Come to think of it, for the most part most of my Makita stuff is 10-15 years old, not 20. But that POS hammerdrill cured me of my blue "religion" for good. I shop around a lot more now and pay attention to reviews such as those in FWW and FHB- and here of course. Brand loyalty is crap! As I said before, they're all building 'em in China anyway. Use is the truest test of a tool, that's for sure.
They also own the craftsmen tool line. The homedepots will take your craftmen hand tools and ecxchange them with Husky. I asked why and the clerk said that HD owns craftsmen.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
With all due respect to your HD guy, I think he's on drugs. Husky started that policy a while back as a way of getting Craftsman owners to make the switch. Craftsman is a brand name owned by Sears, and I understand they consider it one of their most valuable properties. They'd no sooner sell the rights to that name than their own.
Paul, sorry but I think you might be mistaken here.
That Depot guy can't be on drugs.
They have a big sign just inside the door that informed me that all their employees must pass a drug test before getting a job there.
That must be why I always get asked to pee in a dixie cup, even though I don't work there... good drug free urine must be a valuable commodity ;)
Can get some great discounts when bartering with clean urine
Correct, Craftsman is owned by Sears. Sears also owns OSH, so you'll find some of the Sears brands sold at OSH. These are competitors to Home Depot.
I'm not sure, but from the labels on most of what they sell, I'm beginning to suspect that Home Depot is owned by the People's Republic of China. ;-)
-- J.S.
Craftsmen is owned by sears. It is Made by TTI. TTI also makes ryobi, ridgid, craftsmen,maybe husky, and a couple other private brands.
Edited 12/14/2004 12:31 am ET by jrdiblumber
But holding companies don't make anything. They hold the owenrship papers, holdthe profits, and pay the taxes.but it is the comapnies that they hold that actually do the producing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!