This one is a quality control question. I have two windows next to each other on the second story of our new house. Both windows receive very similar solar exposure. Both windows were spec’d with pebble glass in a two pane thermal unit with low-e coating. One is a casement unit in a wooden frame, the other is in a fixed fiberglass frame; but both used the same thermal unit design. I don’t believe that the one in the casement window was treated with low-e as it, and that small room both, get real warm even during the cooler days of fall here in Colorado. (We just moved into our new home four weeks ago.)
I have talked with the manufacturer’s rep, who I purchased the windows from. He tells me that the factory’s records show that the window in question was treated with low-e. He then tried to explain that low-e is supposed to allow in the warmth from low angle sunlight. Yet the window right next to it does not get that warm like the one in question, and it also is in full sun. My question is: How do I prove whether that window’s glass was treated or not?
My only thought up to this point is to keep a record of the temperatures of both window’s glass, and others, using a non-contact thermometer. I figured that for me to say that one is much warmer then the other is subjective, but differential readings would be more factual? Does anyone else have any ideas as to how to resolve this?
Edited 11/30/2009 7:47 pm by BigK
Replies
I don't know if it will work with "pebble" glass.
but, you take a match, hold it up to the glass. In dual pane you will see 4 images of the flame. 3 will be one color, the other will be a slightly different color. The diff. color is the low e coating. It will be indicative of the side of the glass it was placed. So here in Ohio-cold climate in winter-we expect from the outside-2 same color images, 1 a slightly diff. color, 1 the color of the first two images. Meaning the Low-E is on the exterior side of the interior pane.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
That is exactly where I would expect the low-e coating to be.
I am hoping that there is a definitive test to prove or disprove whether that window was actually treated with low-e. The temperature differential thing was my best and only idea to date.
Assuming there is clear (not textured or obscure) glass on one side or the other, you can use one of these:
http://www.edtm.com/1_LowE_Detection.htm?1
My glass/door/window guy has loaned me his a few times.
Thank you.
Did you strike a match and hold it up to the window, then make note of which of the flame reflections looked different ?..It's all fun and games, until someone puts an eye out..You are always welcome at Quittintime
He has pebble glass."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Not yet. Will have to wait until tomorrow when it is not so dark outside.
Darkness will make no difference.
You can see the diff (if the pebble don't muck it up) in daylight, dark, room light only.
Check it out, I'm on the edge of my seat.
edit: Oh yeah, you do it from the inside., warm and toasty.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Edited 11/30/2009 8:24 pm ET by calvin
Maybe they left the insulation out of the wall or ceiling.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie,
I was the GC for this house. All of the exterior walls and the rafters were blown full of chopped fiberglass. I went around and checked this very closely both during and after installation, right in front of the guys doing the install. They took note of what I was doing and even asked why I was checking their work.
The window in question, that glass (inside) gets real warm to the touch. The other window does not, even while in direct sunlight. Both windows are located in a second story wall facing south, about three feet apart.
The difference in frame materials could account for a lot. Another possibility is that one window has the coating on the outside pane, the other on the inside. Should be on the outside for warm climates, inside for cold ones, according to one source I'm looking at.
I have heard that somewhere or other. Don't really know which climate Denver is though; very warm in the summer, winter days can be either warm or cold but when the sun goes down it is generally always cold. Solar effect is a real significant factor here.
Hey Big, did you try the flame test?
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
I did try the flame test. Results: it will only work from the outside on a calm day, you will only see two reflections (one for each face of the clear outer pane), and finally the lower "Pebbled" window that I did try it on showed me that the clear outer pane of glass was not treated with low-e. I did try it on a clear double glaze unit that I know was treated and could plainly see where the low-e was applied on the inside face of the outer pane.
Sorry that I haven't gotten back before now. My weeks tend towards the insane side, so luxuries like email sometimes has to wait a bit. Normally I only take time to read it every few days as it is something that gets done in the evening after everything else. Thank you for the tip; that one is a keeper. Need to find time one of these calm days to set up a ladder and check the upper windows that are in question.
A drag you can't do it from the interior-at least here-it got cooooold.
Thanks for coming back. Would be interested to know about the windows in question when you do them.
thanksA Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
It has been damn cold here in Denver this week to; only single digits yesterday. Another cold front racing down from the Arctic Circle is supposed to arrive tomorrow around lunch time. Some more snow too.
The older I get the more I enjoy winter.
through a window.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I understand where you are coming from, Cal. Be grateful that you are not female; they seem to really suffer from winter's bite, either that or they are just "soft". I am not as quick to work outside in bitter conditions, but will still frame outside if the working day starts at 10/F or better. That is a lot more then I can say for most employees, etc. I just remember what winter was like growing up in SE Wisconsin, i.e. "the land of winter for real" as I tell people here in Denver.
Yeah man, here in NW Oh while the conditions aren't extreme there's some variables that chill the bone.
Wind that doesn't have anything to slow it down anywhere from the pan handle.
Damp wind off the Lakes.
and the ever popular-work in our hot house, but could you cut outside?
Proves the point that nothings ever perfect. And after decades doing it..............
Separates us he-men from the pansies.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Amen. And when a customer asks me to cut outside I make sure to tell them sure, but that I will have to charge more for the extra time and hassle. Generally puts an end to that nonsense.
It all costs time and time is money.
Now, if they just paid for the thinking..............A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Ain't that the truth.
Thanks for sharing the flame test, Calvin, Ahh learned something new today.I have fiberglass frame low e windows in Canada love them. They are better that the wood frames and I hate PVC windows. As for cold and snow Alberta got a god blast today and its headed your way, We got some freezing rain and a few inches of snow but still better than last winter that ended in July.
I think that the leading edge arrived right around lunch today, just like they predicted. Snow will start later tonight, fall slowly but steadily thru Monday. Sounds like fun to me. LOL.
Not a problem. I learned the test from our Marvin window saleman. When our deliv. came for our house, all the windows had our name written on the jamb, cept for one. I asked him about it-thinking it was a wrong delivery eventho it fit.
Oh, we had that left over from a job, color and everything is the same as yours-it was never delivered to the other job, nor used. Brand new, just like yours. Same specs and warranty.
OK, this was in early low e time. So, I ask-"how do I know if it's got low e?" "Well" he says, "you take a match............"
Took the match and saw all the same color flame.
"So" says I when I call him back......
"Get me a new unit".
"I don't know if we can do that-we could get you the glass and you could put that in"
"Well then, you can kiss my white rear end and come pick up the whole order-I'll go somewhere else"................A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Need to find time one of these calm days to set up a ladder and check the upper windows that are in question.
Is this window by chance one of those that tilt in for cleaning?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yeah right. I should be so fortunate. No, as these are all casement units or fixed there are no tilt-ins. Won't be going up a ladder to check them for at least a couple of days, single digit temps and slow but steady snow thru tomorrow night at least.