I didn’t. when my plumber suggested using PEX instead of copper (for numerous benefits) I’m sure he wasn’t thinking about mice. I wasn’t.
We found a leak in the ceiling of the garage this week (bedroom with bath above) and when we opened the ceiling we found that mice had chewed away a section of PEX that was going through a laminate beam. Apparently the beam was too tough for their teeth — but the PEX was just right — and chewing that away allowed them enough room to squeeze through.
So now i’m in the mice catching business (like i really have a chance in hell). My plan is to use the “bucket of water with peanut butter” trap so the place doesn’t stick when i arrive (it’s a vacation home). Unless anyone else has a better idea???
In the meantime, I will think twice about using PEX again — hell, no i won’t — i’ll stick with copper (someone has to support China, right?!)
TJ Pendle
Replies
http://www.kness.com/Ketch-All.html
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Jeff, thanks for the 'lead' on the traps. I try them. I was thinking that the water bucket idea would help to keep the dead mouse smell down. I'll try a few of these and see how bad the smell is (i don't get up to the house every weekend).
Thanks
Tom
Oh no!The few times dead ice/rats don't stink too bad is when their dead carcasses dry out quickly. The thought of a bucket full of decomposing dead mouse soup is pretty horrible to me...It helps if it's cold when they die.-t
thanks Jeff! i ordered one to try. they have a drowning attachment that might keep the smell down. have you used these? If not i'll let you know how it works.
Thanks
Tom
The Ketchall works pretty well and can catch more than one (although they eat each other if you don't clear the trap). You can also dab a little peanut butter on the roof of the trap to entice them into the hole - although be careful not to 'spring' it.
Jeff
One rural plumber I've talked to when it was suggested running pex instead of replacing the copper (in a high sulfer well area) mentioned that he has seen rodents go after the plastic-he figures to get to the water.
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My experience with both mice and rats is that they will rarely bother to chew a hole, even in thin material, not knowing what is on the other side, but will happily expand an existing hole through almost any amount of material. If rodents are a problem I would bet using pex sleeves on the joists would stop their exploration.
If they are in the mood to get chewy they are as likely to go at the insulation on your wires as the pipes. Exterminate the brutes!
90% of the copper I use is made in USA & 9% made in Canada.
Most of my brass fittings are Taiwan.
Yes rodents love plastics to sharpen their teeth on.
& they do like flexible plastics more than brittle ones.
Mice chewed away the pex? Are you 100 percent sure? What about all these plumbers using pex now and bragging about all the benefits? I was never really for it, and got pounced on in a thread about my still liking copper, but if you're saying that mice definitely chewed through it then that's all I need to hear to be anti-pex. Let's see what all the "pro-pex" users have to say about this one.
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That's a section of pvc that mice ate through? If they're going to eat through plastic, then why use the pex for supply lines? Or any other type of plastic for supply lines? They won't eat through copper, that's for sure.
That's pex not PVC.
Maybe it was the kind of pex that lead to its' doom.
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Cost verses risk.
Rats won't eat through concrete, but I don't see it replacing wood in residential contstruction anytime soon.
Was this line active at the time? I don't see how a mouse could chew a hole that big once the water started gushing thru. Must've had the water shut off?
The mice are usually trying to get from one room to another. They prefer to chew thru pex rather than wood. I use metal sleaves when penetrating a wall to prevent damage.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
I recently had to repair a leak in the plumbing of the hot tub. For reasons known only to nature, a mouse had ignored several polyurethane hoses in favor of chewing on a nylon one.
I think the type of plastic / rubber matters. They seem to love PVC, nit PEX does not seem as tasty to them.
Marv, thanks for the idea. do you know where i could get these sleeves --- obvious i would need 'post installation' sleeves --- something with a slit that would allow it to open and then clasp around the PEX, then slide down into the hole in the stud. any ideas where i might get something like that
Thanks ALL for the good advice and insight (and the humorous photos).I went up to the house this past weekend. Photo # 1 is the damaged PEX. mice droppings everywhere. My plumber went up right away and fixed the leak. Left me a trap (Photo #2) --- but after two days of not catching anything, i figured out why (can you see the problem?). So I built a better mouse trap (photo #3).So here's my plan:
1. eliminate (or at least minimize) the mice population (the house is pretty tight so I'm hoping this will have an impact)2. try the the Ketch-All traps that you recommended (these look smaller and have a closed bottle attachment for drowning) --- they might work easier in attics and be less obvious.3. try the metal sleeves around the PEX at the hole junction that Marv mentioned. Anyone know where I might find sleeves that have a slit allowing you to open and clasp around existing PEX?Thanks again! I'll post my 'catch' when I get up there next weekend.Regards,
Tom
WTB it won't work...
mice can read...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
The sleeves I have used come in two pieces and are easy to install once the pipe is in. They are plastic not metal, but fit tightly and wouild definately discourage nibbling. Many plumbers use them routinely to reduce wear as the pex moves with temperature changes.
Your plan looks good, but it sort of sound like you are playing to tie not win. Why not make completely eliminating the mice and making sure they can not re-infest the house your priority rather than waging a long term battle that never really ends?
Where do you get these sleeves that come in two pcs? I'll try them --- still have the first floor and basement ceiling-walls open.
Thanks for the idea!
Tom
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I think he's talking about these or similar. Mainly used to keep tubing from rubbing on stud.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
you da man Marv! thanks!
I get them from my local plumbing supply store. They are similar to the ones Marv. has posted but wider and black.
I think the idea of using sleeves in your case is to discourage the mice from enlarging an existing hole. That is why the plastic ones should work as well as metal ones. After all they can still chew out the pex if they are so inclined with either type.
Good luck! Treat them like the Romans treated the Carthaginians: Kill, enslave, dismantle their city and plow the ground flat there it used to stand.
Edited 11/24/2009 3:12 pm ET by fingersandtoes
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Pexsupply.com
These do not have slit, you will have to cut tube, install and then put in a splicer. Very easy to do if you have the tools.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Edited 11/23/2009 4:57 pm by Marv
I wonder if there's a way you could use simple flashing stock rolled around the tube. You'd probably want to bend the edge that contacts the pex back so there isn't a sharp ragged sheet metal edge rubbing on the plastic.
Got a sheet metal brake?
k
LH,
yes, it was an active line. the water was on and dripping thru the ceiling. they didn't eat all the way thru - just enough to cause water to leak, drip. we caught it in time. i have a plan now - i'll post so everyone can see (in case they need it)
thanks
Tom
Thanx Bill; I loved that pic. Saved it to show doubters....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Make sure and put it next to the pinholed copper pic. :)
Better start using BX or conduit for all your wiring, because they will chew through romex too. Pigs will go through a 2"x4" like butter. Best be safe and use metal studs.
So what your really trying to say in a nice way, but can't seem to manage, is that, it's a one in a million chance that mice will eat through pex, so basically, it's a non-issue.
No. I think they will eat the pex, wiring, burrow through the insulation and nibble the vapor barrier until the building envelope is compromised, soil their nests, and wake you in the night. I just don't think having rodents in your house is a good idea. I wouldn't build so they can run around without damaging much, I'd build so they don't live there.
Oh, and I wasn't joking about the pigs. Years ago we rented an apartment in what had been an old pig barn. One day I went to see that the basement looked like and every stud was chewed down until there was only an inch left!
Bears try to eat my garbage, cougars try to eat my cats, ravens attack their reflections in my shiny chimney, raccoons scale my shingle walls, hummingbirds dive bomb me when I come home for lunch. They say nature is our friend, but I've had it.
Edited 11/20/2009 8:50 pm ET by fingersandtoes
HOLY COW, sounds like you've been through "Farm-a-geddon"! I guess nature will be nature and all we can do is try to prepare for as much as possible.
Yeah, and I haven't started on the insects yet...
How about this?In thousands of radiant projects, I've never had mice take one down.good enough reason to not worry about mice too much?-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
this is what my GC told me in So CA a couple of years ago. I didn't believe him as so many people using it couldn't be wrong, if you know what I mean.....
In other words, free-market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.
Mice and rats will chew anything, they have to keep gnawing because their teeth never stop growing and they have to chew to keep them short.
If you live where you have a mice problem thats not under control you should not use pex.
To control the rodents I get my poison from the exterminator, its a one bite kill and it dries out the rodent fast so there is no smell. Check with a exterminator supply in your area, luck
I had a squirrel chew through my PEX in an exterior wall that fed an outside shower. There was a dropped ceiling there, it looked like he just tunneled down the insulated 2x6 stud bay and started chewing. I just cut both ends of the line and ran a new one. If the water had been on at the time (vacation house) it would have been disastrous.
I've also had squirrels chew up some plastic trim I used around the base of some porch posts, and seen them chew holes in the plumbing vent boots on the roof. It makes me wonder about using AZEK around here. I do have some around the wondows on the vacation house that hasn't been touched - I wonder if it's because it's painted?
Jamie
I'll post my 'catch' when I get up there next weekend.
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So, how'd it work?
Bucket full of mice?
Joe H
Joe, got 6 mice when I went up last weekend. moved the buckets to better spots (where I saw droppings) and made a sixth one. i'm obsessed with getting rid of these buggers. I also bought one of those Ketch-All traps that one of the guys suggested. I'll try that this weekend, but I'm guessing the home-made traps will be just as good (and alot cheaper).
Tom
Congrats on your harvest.
Figuring mice breeding skills you're gonna need more P-butter to run them out of business.
Joe H
Nature is your friend!...
That broke, crack addicted friend who thinks you just came from the bank!
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Maybe the oxygen barrier doesn't taste good ?
Interesting theory! someone should take a bucket of mice and throw in some scrap pipe pieces and see if they leave o2 barrier pipe alone.-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com