I am condsidering purchasing a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup- this would be my first diesel. Anyone have any good or bad luck with Ford, GMC’s, or Dodge? Thanks for the input
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I"ve always been a Ford guy till I bought a Dodge in '99. The extended cab has a much better turning radius than the Ford and the Cummins is equal in power with good mileage if you get the stick shift (which I prefer anyway). The truck has been just fine...tough and reliable. The Cummins engine is bullet-proof as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, my main concern with a truck is reliability and the Dodge, so far (50K) has been that.
That new Chevy sure is quiet, though!
Edited 4/18/2002 9:33:54 AM ET by Notchman
I have a Dodge 1500 now, and it has been quite good- just not so great gas milage. What type of mileage are you getting with the Cummins?
Edited 4/18/2002 9:56:11 AM ET by Jake
On the mileage...the first thing I did was go to an aftermarket air filter that is lifetime and cleanable (KT or something like that). Mileage is about 17 local and 19-22 on a trip. Doesn't seem to matter how much load I've got. If I'm pulling my Woodmizer (about 2800 lbs) or a trailer with a unit of green 16' 2X I may drop down a couple mpg.
I should say though that the engine is heavy and I get about 12K out of a set of good tires. (which probably offsets the fuel savings). I do live on about 2 miles of gravel road which affects the tire life. I drove onto the state truck scales empty one time and the truck weighed 6700#!
Note: You're probably gonna get carpet-bombed with opinion on this one! Personally, I wouldn't be reluctant to choose any of the "big three" so price can be a factor. At the time I bought my truck, Ford had just come out with their new style and demand was high along with the price so Dodge was a little more willing to negotiate.
That would be a K&N filter, I sell/install them all the time. They usually give you 2-3 mpg increase. The deisel chips usually make a HUGE difference power wise but you will sacrifice mileage so it's your call.
From experience(it's what I do),
P-strokes=mucho power.
Cummins=mucho longevity
Duramax=sound great in all areas, we'll see how well it holds up.
Edited 4/18/2002 1:54:04 PM ET by Mike Gabriel
ive got a 24 valve Cummins TD in a 3/4 ton standard config. I cant say enough positive things about it. I have a BD power chip(worth every dime) and a KN Filter. Only thing i could say negative about it is that it a diesel so its noisy. Less noisy then a F*($ing Ford. The suspension is a bit stiff compared to the GM lines but i dont mind that.
If i were to replace this it would probably be the new GM/Chevy Diesels. WHen they work out the kinks in its armor. Its still quit new. As far as the F*#& diesels and their products i pretty much have all negative opinons, The power stroke has 2 more pistons and dont yield considerable more power then the 6 cyclinder Cummins.
Im not a huge fan of Auto transmissions, especially in a GM product. So i prefer standards, you can have more control over your truck with loads both in accelerating and decelerating.
Get a brake box and/or an improved hitch/bumper/gooseneck and pull away.
If you live in a metro area consider diesel fuel availibilty/convenience.
If youre in colder climates consider the heat package.
Diesels do take a a bit longer to warm up since you usually have more oil and radiator capacity, but once warm they are very reliable. Make sure you get the cooling upgrades like oil and transmission(auto) because if youre pulling its one less hastle to worry over.
If youre going to be pulling heavy loads on a regular basis, diesels are worth the cost. However if pulling isnt something you do on a regular basis or pulling light loads a gas engine will probably work better overall.
One thing to watch when upgrading, remember the clutch. Little brother has Do#$% and had the injector pump tweaked up. Dyno'ed at around 300HP. He ran it for a month or so and would spin the clutch easily if you weren't careful, then decided to get the heftier clutch. I've got the old indirect-injected FORD ( say it proudly ) '94 , 97K. Its almost broke in. Not as hefty as the new stuff, but I've never been hooked to anything I couldn't pull including 6 ton of fertilizer, 11,000 lbs of hay, or large farm equipment. Mine is the farm work truck, his is the "shiner" that only sees pavement and only gets hooked to the horse trailer. <G> Thats horse people for you.
Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue
So Mike, it sounds like you're the parts guy so I'll give you a little help here by advising those with a new truck to buy your goodies (like mud flaps, running boards or steps, winches, etc.) from independents. The dealers really honk you on the assessories.
My Dodge rides pretty stiff but I don't care...at least I've got some better shocks than the ones it came with.
Another thing is the beds vary from brand to brand so consider you'll have to get your lumber rack tweeked if you change brands or make a leap in age from an older truck to new. If you've got a decent rack that's a good time to get it powder-coated.
I don't care for automatic hubs and I guess they're standard on all the trucks now. Occasionally I have the need to use the low gearing on a dry surface and don't want the torque bind of 4X4. (And the Dodge binds up pretty quick!) Is there an after market solution? (I'm asking for others because I don't care to spend the bucks on that feature right now)
One more suggestion is to get the bed coated...I would NEVER have another bed liner again even if they paid me to use it. I didn't get my bed coated (should have) but friends who did have been really pleased. I do run a heaver rubber mat in the bed which keeps stuff from sliding around and cleans up easily with a power washer.
One last thing: Why can't the manufacturers put in a fuel gauge that tells you how much fuel you have? I'm "Full" for 80 miles, "half-full" at 290 and getting a "low on fuel" warning at 400 miles. So I pull into a station with the needle on empty and it takes 26 gallons to fill clear to the spout on a 36 gallon tank! Now, it isn't my truck: Every vehicle I've ever had has behaved like this dating back to the 40's (the vehicles, not me). One of my customers is restoring a 1912 Model T and the fuel gauge consists of a stick with graduations on it that compensate for the cylindrical shape of the tank. So for cryin' out loud, if they could recognize and correct the problem for Teddy Roosevelt why do we have to put up with technical laziness in this day and age? Is there an after market solution?
I've had more than a few rides in one those big Ford waggons with a diesel: peice of junk. Noisy, slow, hard to start, slow to warm up, and you'll never get your investment back.
The Cummins engine is great; however, well, it's in a Chrysler product.
GM's are always good; but, you have to be going a lot of miles to get a payback on a diesel.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Jake I've been considering a diesel for quite some time. As far as the diesels go here is how I rank them
1) GM's Duramax with the Alison transmission
2) Ford's Power stroke (only the newer ones with the turbo)
3) Daimler Chrysler's Cummings
Fords Power stroke was on top of the heap for a few years especially since they introduced the turbo. I have a buddy that works at the General Motors proving grounds in the truck division, in his words "the ball is in Ford's court now" I know a couple people that have bought the Duramax and love it.
I'm torn between a Ford and GM because I have family members in each company where I qualify for the A plan discount. I'm leaning toward a GM right now because Ford has discontinued putting snow plow packages on trucks with diesels due to weight issues on the front end.
My neighbor has a 2000 F-350, Power stroke, 4x4, dual wheel, crew cab (4 door) he gets 21mpg.
I drive a F-150 4x4 with a 351 and I get 14 mpg. So buying a diesel is a no brainer!!!
Notchman, I know two people that went to the K&N filter, they didn't notice much a difference with mileage until they changed the computer chip. The aftermarket chip really gave power and mileage a kick in the pants on their power strokes.
Scott R.
Edited 4/18/2002 11:46:23 AM ET by Scott R.
At least on the Chevy/GMC pickups, axle ratios and driving speed make a big difference as to fuel mileage. According to web page I list below, at over 50mph, each ten mile increase in speed will drop mileage about 3mpg.
I have a high mileage 1994 Chevy C2500 6.5 Turbo Diesel pickup and I usually get around 19mpg when I drive at Oregon freeway speeds - something on the order of 65mph. Driving a manual transmission equipped diesel (reportedly on the Chevy diesels of my vintage, the automatics don't hold up well when used for towing) is somewhat different than with a gas engine in that the torque curve and redline are so much lower. The 6.5L diesel has a redline of 3500 and that is considered a high speed diesel engine... I would assume that a diesel with automatic wouldn't be much different than a gas engine with automatic transmission, however.
There is a web site for Chevy/GMC diesels at:
http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/
with a good discussion of mileage and axle ratios at:
http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/mileage.htm
Jake,
I have a '96 Ford F250 with the direct injection Powerstroke diesel and have been extremely pleased with it- 95,000 reliable, trouble-free miles (except for the automatic transmission- you have to take the E4OD out of overdraive when drin=ving around town). One of the earlier posts said it was noisy, that's not true, due to the direct injection it's allot quieter than Dodges that I've been next to.
Ford uses a 7.3 liter International diesel and you can get more information, tips, modifications, etc from this web site. http://www.ford-diesel.com/
If you do go with the Ford, be sure to get on board with the discussion boards on the web site. There are certain maintenance issue with diesels that are not covered in the owner's manual.
The only performance mod that I did was add a K&N filter. I also added a coolant bypass filter with a pre-charged element so that I don't have to worry about adding coolant additives.
As far as mileage goes, I consistantly get over 17 mpg.
To sum it up, if I had to replace the truck today it would be the Ford again.
Are these aftermarket chips really a free lunch, or do they put higher stresses and temperatures all over the place and make the life of the engine shorter?
-- J.S.
You're right, it's not a free lunch. They usually increase the exhuast gas temps, so exhaaust mods should be done before adding performance chips. However, you really don't need these chips. The truck's got enough pwer right out of the box. It appears that the people doing all the performance mods need them for heavy towing like horse trailers and gooseneck trailer up long steep hills.
Heck, the there's tons of ambulences and tow trucks with the exact same engine and I doubt they all have chips.
If you can wait till the fall or the end of the year there's some new stuff coming out. Dodge will have a new 2500/3500 out. Body looks like the new Ram 1500. It will have a redesigned Cummins. In the HO version, it will have 305hp/555 ft lbs of torque and is reported be 70% quieter. Later in the model year, a redesigned automatic (48RE) to go with it.
http://www.dodge.com/autoshow/index.html?tsrc=home&tgrp=promo2&tname=ram_hd_home
Around December Ford will release a completely redesigned 6.0 liter Powerstroke diesel reputed to have 600ft/lbs of torque along with a new 5 speed automatic.
The current Duramax is the most powerful diesel in the market now and imho, the Allison 1000 the best automatic in this class of truck. It doesn't have a long track record but so far so good other than some software issues with the trans when first released. I have some reservations about the aluminum heads but no problems that I'm aware of. The Cummins and Navstar (Ford) are proven designs. The Cummins in particular is a long lived engine ............300,000 and 400,000 miles on them without an overhaul is not uncommon. All are good trucks.
You know the old saying.....opinions are like ###holes, everybody's got one and most of them stink........
I did better than a year's worth of research before I bought a 99 Ford F350 (in 2001). I've always been Chevy or GMC, but the reliabiity of the 6.5TD scared me. I drove the Duramax and was very impressed, but I didn't want to pay new pricetag and it was and still is not a proven engine. But it is the quietest of the three. Granted Isuzu builds a heck of a diesel IMHO, but the aluminum heads are a concern. The Allison tranny is the the best auto of the three.
With Ford, the Powerstroke is a good reliable engine. It is noisy (like the Cummins). The transmission is disappointing as far as performance and reliability (so I'm told). I'm seriously considering a 60 hp chip to add a little extra pep and help with the shiftpoints. Everyone I've talked to about the chip said it was a great improvement and it BOOSTED mpg by 3-4 mpg. I usually pull 10,000# and average around 14 mpg. I have 3.77 gear ratio and wished I had 4.11. I don't drive much highway so it would help with pulling power.
With Dodge, the Cummins typically gets better fuel mileage than the powerstroke, is noisy (like the Powerstroke), and will probably outlast the other two. It too has a less reliable auto tranny(like the Ford). It's probably the best diesel of the three, but it has a Dodge wrapped around it. :)
Good luck. If you do much pulling, you can't beat a diesel. With any gas engine, the mileage severely drops when pulling. My buddy had a 99 Chevy 3500 with a 454 and he averaged 8mpg when pulling. If you don't mind shifting gears, the manual transmission will probably be the most reliable transmission.
Just another opinion,
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
My first diesel was a 88 Ford normally aspirated, then a 95 and a 97 powerstroke, but Ford really helped when they added the intercooler in the 99 model, I put just over 100,000 miles on my 99 pulling a 53' car trailer over the course of a year. A guy a worked with had a GMC 6.5 that averaged 25,000 miles per engine with the same load my Ford hauled, and as for the Dodge, the engine is good, but when seriously worked the manual transmissions loose their overdrives. Anyway as far as mileage, It all depends on your driving habits, sure I can drive my pickup 65 mph and make 19 or 20, but in around here it is hard to stay at 80, where I average around 16.
One thing for sure, if you can justify the additional cost (purchase, oil changes) you will never be disappointed
Jake, for what it's worth. All of my excavator buddies drive fords. Everyone of them! I'm a Chevy man myself but reluctantly bought an old 1986 F-250, 6.9 diesel extended cab 2w/d to pull my 8500 lb tool trailer. To my very great suprise the 158,000 mile ford does it w/ ease! All diesels have similar quirks. I am enjoying the old Ford so much that I'm thinking of selling the newer Chevy. I know that this will probably invite the ire of some, but the best running truck that I ever had, hands down was a Toyota. Made in America, by Americans, for Americans! I had to sell it because of loosing large contracts to economic extortionists ( our beloved Unions!) I know that they have their place; I just believe that they are becoming lazier and greedier and less qualified by the second! When I lose jobs to people who bought their cards for $350.00 ( yes this is an absolute fact!) and hide behind the union label it really just drives me crazy! Can't help but wonder about $ 45,000.00 trucks..."Be American, Buy American" sounds like economic terrorism to me, from inside. Don't get me wrong; I love this counrty! I am just saddened that when we can't compete, we become no better than thirdworld thugs, demanding money under the guise of patriotism.
Miammi,
I know what you mean. I bought my 99 f350 ($45000 new) a year ago for $19800. No looking back. Let someone else take the big initial hit.
I used to drive a Nissan (and loved it) 2 trucks ago but it was ultimately too small and the old "Be American Buy American" became a business asset. By the way, the Nissan trucks were built in Tennessee.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
I've got a 97' Ford F350 4x4 crewcab with the Powerstroke. I highly recommend them. If you want it to tow, there is no comparison to a gasser(I also have a Chevy 1-ton dump witha 454 in it) . I tow a 10,000 lb. equipment trailer loaded , and take the Powerstroke at all costs when moving it.
The Powerstoke is easy to hot rod also. I bought mine new, then put a downpipe on it, "enhanced" the exhaust with additional plumbing, put in a race chip, K & N filter, and a few other mods. Now I have a 1-ton four door 4x4 work truck that can smoke the rear tires at every stoplight>>>>>>>VERY COOL!
The Ford-diesel website is awesome! I've been a member of that fine bunch since day one. A real fun bunch.
Don't listen to the bunch that bad mouth diesels. They are just jelous. Probably can't afford one anyway.
PS. If you are looking at pre-99 fords, stick with the F350's over the 250's(4x4's). They ride smoother, and have a better front axle set-up with the straight axle over that twin beam piece of poop.
F-350 super duties with turbo powerstrokes. That's all my boss has in his fleet of work trucks. They all have the utility beds on them which really weigh a truck down, and even loaded to the gills can walk away from most cars. We haul trailers alot and even loaded down with Big bank safes and Atms we can pretty much cruise as fast as we want.
FWIW,
I have a '99 Dodge 3/4 ton, and that's my vote. The most pulling I do is my Wood-Mizer, and my 14' cargo trailer. An occasional bobcat. It always has more than enough power and pulling torque. As for fuel milage, I can't complain. The worst I got this past winter was 13mpg, and that was because I let it sit and warm up for extended times. And as for loads, I've hauled about 1/2 ton of lumber and it never even squatted. The number one reason I bought it was the engine(400,000 miles before the first overhaul) and a national club to gather and share information. If you can't tell, I love my truck! As far as modifications, my 24-valve isn't bone stock, and I voided the warranty when I did this. Keep that in mind when going to purchase a vehicle. If you can't be your own warranty station, keep it stock. Like someone else said, check out some of the diesel pages on the net, they are an invaluable resource.
Mitch
Mitch - Can you post any of the sites on the web for Dodge Cummins.
Thanks Ken
Edited 4/20/2002 4:30:52 PM ET by DIAMONDBUILD
Diamond-
Sure thing. The club I belong to is over 10,000 members strong. It is the Turbo Diesel Register. The site is http://www.turbodieselregister.com The club has regional chapters, a very family-like atmosphere. There are get-togethers all over the nation, and they even plan on having a national rally at the Cummins Mid-Range Engine Plant in August of this year.
A couple others are http://www.dieselram.com This is a good site that just got re-started. I think there is another, but can't find it in my favorites menu right now.
Sorry about not knowing the Ford or Chevy diesel pages, but i'm sure you can find them through a search engine. Hope this helps.
Mitch
Edited 4/20/2002 10:47:41 PM ET by MROCKWELL1
Mitch - Thanks for the info on the dieselram site. Great stuff.
Ken
Has anyone had any experience with the propane injection units for diesels? I have only seen one rig with one installed and it was at a police auction (selling cars from drug busts) so didn't get to ask the owner any questions.
For a sample of the claims, I did a quick Web search and these were the first two hits I got:
http://www.tsperformanceproducts.com/propane_faq.html
http://www.usdieselparts.com/bullydog.htm