It might be interesting to discuss this one – maybe entertaining, maybe informative for younger guys, maybe theraputic for older ones or those suffering…
I can remember at least four times in my life that I have had to work with difficult people of one kind or another. It’s harder when you have to work under them in the pecking order.
Three of the four I can remember were family to the owner of the outfit, so they had positions and authority higher than their skills and experience would normally dictate. It’s hard to tell a company owner that his son/brother/cousin sucks to work with and that he is screwing up, especially when you are low seniority. I remember one whole winter, working under a foreman who had five years experience when I had about fifteen or so. He constantly did things wrong or made bad decisions but would not accept direct advice. But if I did it by asking him, what if we did it this way or by suggesting, I saw such and such once, he would invariably regurgitate the same idea as his own in a day or so.
Since I am a normally mellow and patient person, (more so when working for wages than when running my own show) it seems like I have often been paired with difficult persons that no-one else wants to work with.
On the other side of the coin, I’m sure there were times when I was younger that I came across as a snot nosed, know-it-all. 😉
But overall, I usually just grinned and bore it all, not knowing how to bring the problem up to the boss.
Excellence is its own reward!
Replies
Thought maybe this was about that AH larry, but not so.
I've worked alone for so long I can hardly remember the joy of working with a moron daily. Can't remember anything good about it, other than picking on them like larry. That was kinda fun, but I don't think it's allowed anymore.
Imagine all those kids who used to get picked on in school NOT getting picked at. Weird, huh?
I remember one guy called "Bob Bitchin' " due to his somewhat swollen head. His work was perfect, all others could learn from him. He thought.
When people you've never met know you as Bob Bitchin' wouldn't you wise up after awhile?
Joe H
Worked with many that were mostly as----es!
Worked with many that were just.....different.
But I remember one who stands out above all those with certain character defects.
This guy STUNK!Must have wore the same clothes for a month and never washed them.Hair was always stuck to his head and smelly.Looked like he just crawled out from under a rock.Smelled like s--t and p--s.
But doggone he was the nicest guy you'll ever want to meet.Great worker and good carpenter.Everyone on the crew just stayed up-wind or set him up cutting for us somewhere out of range.
He quit after about 3 months,nothing was ever said to him about his hygene.
Iwish him well.
Oh man!
I hired a guy once who had foot problems. Imagine the worst smelly feet you ever sniffed and that is how he smelled right after a bath! Wasn't too bad staying upwind on a roof but get him in a truck or in the office and watch out!!!
I talked to him aabout it and gave him my old boots and bought him new socks and foot spray.
I let him go after a short time. I had good reasons because he wouldn't do like I told him too but I'm sure the smell made it sooner than later..
Excellence is its own reward!
Then there are the guys that smell like they just walked out of the tavern.
They probably would blow.10 in the morning.
Seen alot of guys sent home first thing for this.
Good..........
Most of the problems with people usually have to do with their lack of maturity.
And that's where having kids has helped me work with these guys.
Just a few months ago, I had a laborer, nice guy, big teddy bear, strong as an ox, and smelled like one. Just as you would be sensitive to a childs needs, I pulled him aside and told him to shower and wash his clothes.............he nodded his head and from then on, did it. I really don't think he was aware.
Anger and construction, at least fine construction just don't go together. Early in my career, I was involved in a couple of situations like Stan described.....dangerous.
I deal with anger on the job just like I deal with it in the playroom.
A time out. It's the only real safe solution. And if a guy needs a day or a week, so what! It's his anger and he needs to take care of it.
Drinking and drugging are another source of problems, either directly or residual.
The worst guy I had was a wise guy, an enforcer for the mob who had found Jesus and wanted a straight job. His newfound Paster somehow got my name and talked me into taking him on. He shows up on the first day wearing a blazer cut, leather jacket. Figured he could use his jack to knock down some knee walls! I give him a warm coat and tell him to start picking up the job-site trash...........he told me it was cold, I told him, "No sh!t, shirlock" We got along famously! Later I leave to pick-up a few things and I come back to a firetruck in front of the job. The dude had decided he was cold and he took the Owners trash can, lites some trash, throws in some treated cut-offs and proceeds to warm his hands............as if he's in a movie like "On the Waterfront"!
Later I asked him why he didn't just get in his car if he was cold and it was obvious it hadn't occurred to him. I suggested he look for a another line of work. Truth be told, I never got the feeling he really wanted to leave the world of broken legs, he just wanted to keep doing what he did best and still go to Jesus!
Oh, I paid him at the end of the day................he refused, a real class act!
You guys in the building trades obviously don't have a corner on the bozo's to work with!
I was heading to Palomar Observatory outside San Diego a couple of years ago with a graduate student. This student was bright, but certainly "excessively" goofy. All of us have our quirks, but this guy had quite a few extras. Now I'm from Cornell, I drive 20 miles in 20 minutes, way more grass and trees around here than blacktop and concrete...so I'm not a huge fan of Southern California. Lived in Pasadena for a year...had to leave...couldn't take the population density.
So we are driving on the 15 and come up behind this garbage truck. Suddenly the car is completely filled with this putrid stench...it was wicked. I said "Wow, even their garbage smells that much worse"...and the grad student says "No, I think that's just my feet" He had taken a shoe off! YIKES! So the next couple of nights at the telescope...myself and the telescope operator had to keep going outside every few minutes to catch some fresh air. We still (the telescope operator and myself) joke about it from time to time!
Stan, all I can say, sounds to me like a big sign of respect when someone acts that way...given problems in the past. Having seen your work...I can understand the level of respect he must have!
The most dangerous ones like that guy are the ones who can't tell reallity from their fantasies like a guy I heard about who went around in a leopard skin leotard and lion's mane bathrobe muttering about how his screaaaach scarred people in the night at their hunting camps. He actually thought tht he had nine lives and couldn't die.
Some people are weird, I guess.
But to get back to the main idea I had, suppose that this dude thought he knew so much about framing that he wouldn't take advice from anyone, especially junior members of the crew. Suppose that he set rafter's that werre cut so bad that they fell nearly 3/4" shy of the ridge beam and spiked them in anyway. What would be a good way for a junior member to let his boss know that there was possible failure hanging in the air, so to speak.
Or suppose that the dude was foreman and he was ordering his underlings to climb steep roofs without safety gear. Suppose that it is hard times, economically, and that the junior guy on the crew doesn't have any other job lined up. How can he get the company owner to listen to him about the problem?
Are there sure-fire ways to be assertive without creating personel conflicts?
Come on all you problem solvers.
Excellence is its own reward!
Try being in a class where only myself and 2 other students out of eighteen have the intelligence and desire to learn the course material. Somehow 15 dumb kids got dumped into my class. They aren't necessarily mentally dumb, they just have no drive to work and expect everyone to do it for them.
Whenever a group assignment comes up, they always try to partner with either myself or one of the two other guys that know what's going on. The three of us usually just partner with each other and let the rest of them fend for themselves.
Just do your job freefall,the best you can.
Your skill and ethic will define you.
Welcome to the politics of the trade.
Hey freefall, aren't you the young guy from somewhere in Canada that came in not too long ago asking about trade school and such? If so, I hate to hear it's going poorly for you and the other two "good" guys. But hang in there, the "turkeys" will drop out sooner or later. I know I've worked (and still work with) some stupid, lazy, and downright dangerous people, but perserverance will pay off.
piffin, I have this list, of talented carpenter's, in my mind. Then when I need some help, well , I start at the top of the list. You know the routine, phone calls, anywho, all at the top are always busy, relunctantly, I will call the last two, "ah heck sure Jim, be there in the am", one will invarible say. Well piffin, my wife just smiles at me, when I tell her about my work day, while I'am shaking my head wondering why I called these guys in the first place. Both these guys are like high strung thourobreds, I try and hold the reins tight , and keep their blinders on. ok ok, I can't resist this last one, every 15 minutes this one guy will come up to me, and say "Jimmy can I make a suggestion" a big smile on my face from the memories. Jim J
Piffin: Good topic...
I was hired back in the late 80's by a high end building contractor. I was to build all their stairways. Well...they had a 60 year old foreman that everyone hated because he was a true a** h***. His name was Louey. I am very easy going,,,but after a few weeks with this foreman...I had to stand up for myself.
I was working in a house one day while this a** h*** Louey was at the hardware store. My boss that hired me came by and wanted me to get started on the stairway. I told him there were no stair parts around for it. He quickly pointed out that we were keeping all the stairparts in the attic above the garage. Louey..my foreman witheld information to keep control on us.
Anyway my boss had me go check to see if the stairparts were there. I said "Yep, they are here". My boss then said to get the parts down and to go ahead and start on the stairway. He left and meanwhile I was hauling parts down the ladder and this a**h*** Louey shows up. He says" Hey Foster,,what the hell are you doing? I replied that I was starting on the stairway. He started screaming "like hell you are". I got right in his face...veins bulging and told him that the only way to stop me from building the stairway is to have my boss come down and tell me himself.
My foreman went ballisitic..and started throwing things and then he stormed off. We all knew what his next move was. He was a butt kisser and he always ran to the boss. Anyway, my boss later told me that Louey came to him and wanted him to fire me.
My boss set him straight that day and said I was to build all the stairways from now on.
Later my boss told me in private that I was the only one that didnt cower to Louey.
Needless to say....Louey hated my guts. He never changed his ways....but I was a complete loose cannon out of his control with the blessings of my boss. Louey was a fantastic trim carpenter..with almost a demonic attitude. I let him know I respected his superior knowledge but totally disrepected him as a person. I also told him that if he only had a good personality,,,he would be the best carpenter I ever knew.
End of story......Louey still visits me in my stairshop..and slaps me on the back like we were buddies all along.... Go figure.....
"Louey still visits me in my stairshop..and slaps me on the back like we were buddies all along"
Of course he does, after all, he gave you your start!
NOT
LOL.
Excellence is its own reward!
I've unfortunately had several problem co-workers over the years. Or maybe it's just me....................(-:
I tend to go for the "Put up or shut up" way of dealing with this. I HATE it when people complain and complain about co-workers or bosses, but do nothing about it.
My last boss (The one who canned me) had the temperment and maturity level of a 2 year old. He regularly had temper tantrums and yelled and screamed at anyone who happened to be standing nearby at the time.
So one day I went in his office and closed the door. I told him that I was frustrated that everyone felt that they had to walk on eggshells around him for fear that he would blow up. I had carefully rehearsed the speech in my head, and knew what I wanted to say. I had anticipated his responses and thought up rebuttals. In the end he realized he had been a jerk, and toned things down a bit. For a while.
I think meeting a problem head on is the best way to deal with it. Whining and bitching aren't going to change anything. You gotta deal with the problem directly.
BTW - Whenever I had bad news to deliver like that, I did it just as I was walking out the door on Friday afternoon. That way both parties have the weekend to reflect and cool off.
.
I have a problem co-worker at the moment, which has really been bugging me. They brought some 20 year old kid in out of the plant and wanted me to train him in design. I was all for it at first - the kid is smart, and picked things up quickly.
Trouble is, he only shows up for work when he feels like it. Our boss is at the main plant, which is over an hour away from here. So he doesn't have to deal with the problem directly. Some days he shows up on time. Other days he's here at 9:30 to noon. One day he didn't show up until 1:30 in the afternoon. A couple of times he hasn't shown up for 2 days in a row, and has not called in. He says he doesn't like alarm clocks, so he just wanders in whenever he wakes up.
The boss sends work up for this kid, and then he doesn't show up to do it. Then the plant guys come in wanting the job finished, so I have to do it for him. Or the customers call up and want quotes done that are sitting on his desk. Or the boss calls me and asks where he is, why he's not there, and/or when he's coming in. Then the kid will show up and be pissed off at me for doing his work.
My Boss wasn't doing anything about it, so I decided to put the heat on him. I wrote a letter to my boss, explaining my frustration with the siruation, and telling him I felt his actions were unacceptable. Then I showed it to the plant manager, and made sure the owner knew about it.
Last week they finally disciplined the kid - Suspended him for 2 days. Since then he's showed up pretty close to on time. Guess we'll see how long that lasts.
Didn't mean to rant for so long. Guess my point was that you gotta be a little fearless in dealing with bosses and co-workers. Be tactful, but face them directly. Telling them once won't always do it - Sometimes they have to hear it several times before they accept that they're gonna have to deal with it.
Q: Why do men name their penises?
A: Because they want to be on a first-name basis with the person who makes all their decisions.
I like the letter thing.
Partly because I do better with the written word most of the tiem, especially when I'm pissed off. I can let it steep for a day and then refine it or throw it away.
It's also important in lots of corporate venues for documentation in personel files. It is a legal necessity some places to keep all such documentation for a number of years.
I did that once when I recognized a possibility of legal consequences and myself standing behindf the liability gun. Generally, I deal face to face with the troublemaker and If I can't tolerate things, I move on.
Like you mention about being doubtful whether your trainee will changed his spots, I don't belkieve most people will change the character that drives their actions easily. If there is a reason why the boss is stuck with them, like blood relations, I figure why waste my time trying to change reality. I go make my own reality..
Excellence is its own reward!
You make some good points. I mainly did the letter so I could make sure the owner and plant manager saw it. Makes it a bit harder to ignore. And it also makes sure that everybody hears the same story.
I also like to deal with the problem face to face, and had done so. But this kid doesn't care what I think - I'm not his boss, and he knows it.
Hopefully this one will either straighten up or get the boot. It would be a shame to lose him, in a way - He doesn't do a bad job when he actually shows up.Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
I suppose we could all tell a few war stories from the trenches but what I'm really looking for is positive suggestions about ways to deal with such difficult people. stan stood up face to face, Boss does too except when he writes a letter. some of us joke around it, but when it is serious, we need a real solution.
I'm sure that there are policies and procedures in placed in larger companies for things like this but when a guy is on a small crew, what does he do?
If you are the boss, how should an underling go about approaching you about a difficult co-worker?
Now for the war story of the minute.
Back when I was a junior shingle layer on a crew, we were all taking lunch in the garage space of a Florida residence. The crew foreman was an adam henry, with a reputation for beating up on guys. Rumour was that he had been in prison for same and was paroled out to his big brother, the owner of the company.
He wised off at me just as I was finishing my apple and I chucked the core across the garage into his nail bag.
Not being a baskeetball stud, I was asa suprised as anyone else when it "chink"ed into the nails. That sound was foillowed by deathly silence until he found his voice and started in on me with a vengance.
He was a cigar smoker and I had always wanted to see his stogie smacked all over his face. I can still remember the loook on his face with that cigar smashed in twenty directions and ashes all over his lips.
Then the real fight started.
I guess I was luckyt that every one there broke it up before it really got going. He apologized and I said OK and we laid shingles together all afternoon. His brother separated us after that though..
Excellence is its own reward!
The boss hired this dude... ****Residential Project Manager****.... to help us run jobs. This one job, add-on, basement, had head room issues, and had a flat roof with a deck on top so you could walk out from the existing house first floor onto it, anyway, it was four steps down from the existing basement into the new one. The job called for underpinning the house,and concrete steps down, with sleepers nailed on the steps to get wood treads. When I got to the stair part, I figured to eliminate the concrete steps and just build three little concrete retaining walls and build the stair out of wood on top of the new slab. That saved a pour, and simplified everything. Ran that by the boss, "yeah, go ahead". even the building inspector said that's what he'd do. This "project manager" had a cow when he found that out and called me and said to follow the drawings to the letter. I tried to explain it to him but he said not to argue with him, etc,.... he went to the boss and hemmed and hawwed and complained to the boss that I was taking his authority away from him. The bossman shut him up. Another job I was on with him, he wanted to wait for walls to go up before he came out and measure for trusses. He's still with us.
I hate it when U guys start threads about me....
Anyways......
First company I work for aftergoing going the employee route.....
First day..working with the guy..he barely said a work all day.....few things he does say imply he's pissd I show up as the new guy and get a better assignment then him..and complains I have more and better tools? Guess I made him look bad by showering that morning too.
Second day..we're humping drywall from the truck to the back of the house....
Says......pissed off for no reason...."You ain't to good at carrying drywall!".
I reply..Thanks, of all the things I'd like to be good at...carrying drywall is pretty much at the bottom of the list....He later tried to make a few other comments ..mostly trying to challenge me one way or another.
Third day....we're in the same room hand nailing blocking...(I had told the wife make sure U bring bail money if I call because I wasn't going to try the good employee any more than 3 days....if he acted up....I was gonna drop the big ape)
I'm up on the ladder..he's down below...he stops and watches for a few minutes.....says.....U can't even sink that nail with one hit! I'm doing all mine with just one...what's the matter....ain't ya tough enough to be a carpenter?.....
I lean over the ladder...look out the window....and say...
Well, a$$ho!e...your timing is perfect..the driveway's empty...what say U and me go down there and U show me just how tough a real carpenter is?
He just stands there looking confused.....I get down off the ladder and start for the door. Look back.....say I'm either going down for a break...or we're going down and U ain't coming back.
I ain't f'n around..so either stay here...or come out swinging. If I have a nice pleasant break.....I'll come back and we'll work just fine in opposite sides of this room.
I go on break.....he stays up stairs.....we get back to work and finish the day in silence.
Next morning...he walks in like nothing ever happened and like my best new buddy asks how my morning's going!
Went well for the rest of the week....
Tha mOnday he's a no show and I find out on the Fri before he got drunk on his drive home from work and rolled his truck! Broke a leg and was on disability. Guy he was drinking with(site foremen)..the one that left after just a few beers.....told me..
"Hey Jeff...you "new buddy" won't be coming back any time soon...."
Guess he figured things out pretty quick....but waited to see how things would shake out. Said the last 2 guys quit because of the a-hole.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy....
I used the same bully technique that got me thru HS.....challenge them back and if that don't work be ready to beat their head in.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I got this feeling you would be a fun guy to have on a crew View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
I can be entertaining at times!
Just spent the begining part of the week subbing a cab job and got to work with my old lead carp buddy.
We've have more than one homeowner tell us to take our act to the stage.
Sometimes I miss working on a crew. He was glad to have me back....but only because his crew got shipped off to another job and he was solo for the week.....told him I was only being used for my company....felt used.....a little violated......like a piece of meat....
I'm more than a pretty face and good lunch time banter, ya know.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I'm more than a pretty face and good lunch time banter, ya know.....
Oh does somebody need a hug? *G*View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
Anybody ever tell you that you were intimidating?
Nah - I didn't think so.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Pif,
The crew I work on is a small five-man framing crew, and our boss/ crew leader normally doesn't work much, so the journeyman and I are left to tend to the new guys. The J-man is a pretty soft-spoken, respectful guy and he doesn't say much to problem (read: lazy/ slow) workers.
I usually work with and train the new guys in basic stuff like toting lumber, being a cut man, running housewrap, etc. There are two ways I handle the new guy: If he is having trouble or makes an honest mistake, and he really seems like he's trying his hardest, I give him "positive motivation" and tell/help him make the correction or speed things up. However, if the guy's lazy and it's obvious he's only there for the paycheck, I don't hesitate to give him a good "motivational speech."
I've almost gotten into fights before with a--hole coworkers, but now that I'm the second guy on the crew and the second-highest paid, I just let it go knowing that I still get paid more and my work is tight. Since our crew is small and my boss has good relationships with all of us, I would just go to him if there was a real problem. He knows I won't lie to him or come whining all the time, so if I did approach him seriously, I am sure he would give careful consideration to the matter.
However, if I did go to him with a problem and it continued or got worse, I would probably just take a temporary pay cut and go to another crew. I would let him know beforehand if I was considering that, though, because I know he would think twice before losing a good man. And not trying to embellish self; I've made it over a year for him, and that's saying a lot--most guys (novice or exp.) don't make it a month.
Sorry so long.
I think the boss will always listen most to the guy who they percieve is the most valuable player.
Be the guy who makes them the most money and be sure that they know it, i guess is the answer to the question.
I have managed to solve my problems as they come up but I posted this thread on behalf of a junior member here who was a little shy about the potential of creating conflict if his co-worker were to be reading this. Also, My wife's aunt has a similar problem so it's a dinnertime discussion here nowdays. She took the bull by the horns and told the owner who was causing trouble and then tendered her resignation to avoid conflict. She's a good hand who doesn't need to worry about work. Then the guy who was the problem told folks that he got her fired.
No-one believed him..
Excellence is its own reward!
Just another short/fat guy here.....
I learned the put up er shut up deal way back when...
Tough town...tough Dad...tough older brother....tough but lovable friends.....
Everything always came back to "never start a fight.....but stand up and stop it quick if you have to".
All the "tough guys" I grew up with were damn funny people just after a good time.
I always hated the classic gotta fight the world "tough guy". Typical bully types.
If no one else would...somehow I always ended up being the guy to point out the ills of their ways......just so everyone could get back to having a good time without the distractions!
Why can't we all just get along.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite