Disappointed and looking for solutions
My wife and I have been looking for a new house for our growing family for close to three months now. We finally found something we really like….but there’s a problem. We took a second look at the house ast night and noticed that there is a water stain in the carpeting of the finished basement. The stain is damp and located almost in the center of the room.
I’m very concerned about this since the basement is completely finished with walls built against all the foundation walls. There’s no way to get behind the sheetrock walls to ID the source of the water. I also think it could be coming in thru the floor.
We are ready, but reluctant, to move on to the next house but we really like everything else abut this one. Are there any options to identify and correct the source of the water without taking apart the whole finished basement?
Replies
If they lower the price by $20,000 I may be worth it. Repairs would require digging down and out the outside dirt of all the basement wall a minimum of 3 sides and adding a pum below slab level.
Since its past winter time, it may get even worst durung the rainy season. If the finished walls are new, watch out, its a cover-up. If they are old, they did a good job.
The moisture will grow mold, rot organic floors and bubble paint and drywall.
There are lots who come here that are looking for solutions. Interview the neighbors and see what they know, it may be normal in the neighborhood.
Its very easy to hire someone who will claim to fix it. But in reality, their reputation only lasts as long as they are around.
could be a drain backing up..or dog pee..did ya ask?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
What state are you besides confusion.
HEre in NY when one sells a house they must fill out a disclosure of anything that is wrong.
Even if they don't know, than within a year of you moving in "they" must pay for unforseen problems that were ongoing.
The tricky part is all they need to do is pay $500 to waive this law.
Assuming they don't have this law by you. I'd assume there may be an underground spring or busted pipe or who knows what.
Seems odd that its in just one small area.
HAve you gotten an engineers report yet?
Ask local neighbors if they also have this problem because theyre may in fact be springs in your immediate area.
I had that in my last house hense the name "Cold Spring Harbor".
that really didnt stop me from buying it and improving it to the umpteenth degree and beyond.
What you need to do is negotiate the issue $$$ with the seller.
You "don't" need to fix the foundation problem if it is in fact a spring because I KNOw the expense that will entail.
There are many ways to put a new floor down with French drains and all kind of other solutions so get a "good" engineer and invesigate the different solutions before you negotiate on the price.
BE well
andy
My life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The tricky part is all they need to do is pay $500 to waive this law.
They get off the hook for $500???
Care to explain?
Its as simple as that.
All lawyers recommend to pay the five hundred bucks no matter what.
Kind of a stupid law that I don't understand. Its new as of last year.
"My life is my practice"
Edited 5/4/2004 8:12 am ET by ANDY CLIFFORD(andybuildz)
Re the $500 "waiver"
That is the penalty for failing to provide a disclosure form.
http://reicny.org/ofinterest.html
Based on practicing int'l banking law in NY for several years, I think those lawyers are wrong in their advice. (Note: banking law and residential RE law have absolutely nothing in common in the details, but courts are courts and the law tends to do similar things in similar situations -- But, ultimately, what do I know about RE law in NY?)
Yeah, give up the $500 and don't provide the form: from the legislative history a court is going to find an affirmative duty to disclose known defects and then use common law to provide the remedy.
And it _really_ has to be emphasized here that the laws on these disclosure issues vary widely from state to state and anyone who relies exclusively on any of the advioce given here about the disclosure laws and what they mean and what they do (including mine) deserves what they get.
If you are involved in a RE transaction and have any disclosure form question, get advice from an experienced RE lawyer who practices in your locality.
_______________________
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I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!
Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!
Here in CA, you can sell a house "as-is", except for termite and dry rot damage. The seller is required to have a termite guy inspect and repair and sign off before the close of escrow, but that's it. Everything else can be left up to the buyer.
-- J.S.
In Ohio, the concept of for sale "as is" exists, but there is still a requirement of disclosure of ceratin known conditions, and the "as is" is intended to mean "I don't care what your inspector finds, this is what I'm selling and I'm not fixing nuthin' or changing the price."
The reality is that if the inspection finds disclosable problems, the seller would then has to disclose them to subsequent house hunters, and most listing agents will advise them to work with an existing buyer rather than get on their high horse and take their chances with another selling attempt with the disclosable item.
And the agents with half a brain will make them add it to the disclosure because the agent's license is on the line.
_______________________
Tool Donations Sought
I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!
Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!
And the agents with half a brain will make them add it to the disclosure because the agent's license is on the line. And the agents with half a brain will make them add it to the disclosure because the agent's license is on the line.
I was recently retained to inspect unimproved acreage here. We have peculiar zoning requirements for house sites. This particular property had problems and for $400k, my clients wanted to be clear about what they were getting. A study period is common and the listing agent, the sole agent, was adamant in their protecting themselves.
Turned out the sellers were involved with a land surveyor to determine buildability. I had a similar previous experience with same surveyor that went poorly. He pretty much destroyed any possibility of ever building on the one good site by asserting to the authorities that the requirements could not be met. If so, value would plummet.
The property is now FSBO, same price. Wanna guess about their disclosures? You're right about the agent protecting his license. I pity unsuspecting future buyers.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
ron - i could get into a load of would you's, could you's ,go look at , try this and that. but alas... the one thing that should be pointed out to you. ................ TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS......... if it doesnt feel right..... then it's not for you. after that...... look for bubbles in the sheetrock, poor paint adhesion, trust your sense of smell. if the place has a suspended cieling move a half a dozen tiles , by the windows or the bubbles and poor paint adhesion and check for mold that stuff is real aggresive ,dangerous, and a real....ahem....." bear" to get rid of......... but again trust your instincts... put you and the missus heads together and talk it to death spew anything out write it down than do the pluses and minuses thing.
slainte......bear
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bear........look where my instincts got me.almost divorced on the house before this one..lol..although it is getting really intense in a good way if one can get through all the "stuff".
Ps.....You won't recognize this place.let me know when yer comin' by on your way home from work and I'll have some good brew ice cold.
PSS...Charlie Musslewhite is "next week" I think.
I'll give ya a shout
Be a dog owner
andyMy life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
WOOF!"expectations are premeditated resentments"
My understanding is that the sales agent is obliged, in many states, to give 'complete disclosure' of all known problems or issues. Failing this they may be libel for any repairs. This is, of course, a theoretical absolute obligation that likely means very little unless it can be enforced.
Bringing in your own, possibly more than one, home inspector or expert on moisture control might be a reasonable path. This additional cost might be shared with the HO. Or not. I would ask them about it and get everything in writing.
Always better to find out before the check clears and you have to get lawyers involved to redress the situation after the fact.
"My understanding is that the sales agent is obliged, in many states, to give 'complete disclosure' of all known problems or issues. "
If by sales agent you mean the real estate agent while I think that they are required to be truthful their knowledge of the condition of the house, specially anything hidden or already "fixed" is very, very limited. Basicallyh they only know what the seller tell them.
But the sellers have a different resonsibility. In the past they where only required to be honest if asked specific questions. Now more and more states do require disclosures. But do the sellers know this and how much do they know and what do they think need disclousing?
It is always best to ask specific questions, in writing, about any conditions that are of concern.
I know from experience that those disclosure forms aren't really worth that much. Our house turned out to have a sewage ejection pump buried out in the yard, invisible to all (no way an inspector could have known it was there). Of course it broke several weeks after we bought the house, and cost us about $3,000 in discovery and repair charges. It would have cost MUCH less if we had known it was there. We complained to our agent that it wasn't on the disclosure, but nothing happened. The selling agent suddenly "couldn't locate" the buyer. We decided that the legal fees and headaches that we'd incur trying to handle it ourselves wasn't worth it, especially with no guarantee of collecting. Once they have your check, they don't really care about fulfilling the contract.
Ignore the cost estimates given here.
There is far too little information available for anyone to advise you on what decision to make.
Since it is "almost in the center of the room" the first thought I had is a floor drain backed up. What's the weather been like where you are? The topography? The exterior grading? The downspouts? In town or out in the country? Do they have storm sewers there?
Oh, yes, don't rely on "disclosure statements." They might help, depending on the facts, but don't put anymore weight on 'em then your lawyer tells you can.
What did your home inspector say?
When I see something like that, my moisture meter is out and I'm testing around the floor, at the bottom of the walls, and I'm looking at all of the available evidence.
How newly finished is the basement? Hpow fresh is the paint? What kind of foundation walls? What kind of stuff do they have down there? Expensive stuff sitting on the fllor or old junk sitting on pallets?
What did your home inspector say?
Tool Donations Sought
I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!
Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!
Ron
Any purchase offer should be subject to an inspection by a competent home inspection engineer as mentioned by another poster. They should also have liability insurance if their inspection does not uncover the fault. It is usually the biggest purchase of your life. Does the bank/mortgage company not require this where you live?
Cheers
Mac
Ron,
You've received some good advice and hopefully I can add some more.
If you really love the house and this is the only issue, draft up your contract with the contingency clause that provides for a home inspection with the inspector of your choice. Specifically, make the contract contingent on you receiving an engineers report acceptable to you that the floor and foundation is free of any water leakage/intrusion etc. Seller to correct any problems detailed in the engineers report with a cap on their expense of X% of the sale price. You would have to pay for the engineer, but it gets you the peace of mind.
I know what you are going thru, last year it took us 5 mos. to find our house and then it was a septic system issue. Just make sure that the contingency clause gives YOU the decision making capacity and the report is clear as to what is broke and what is not! Good Luck!
ron ask the questions to the seller about what the water stain is all about. Yea they do have to file a discvlosure but the disclosure has a caveate with the "To the best of my knowledge" If you have that feeling that its more than a dog peeing on the carpet, then ask the sellers to provide you with a home warranty that will pay for any serious problems for a year or two.
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
Hi Ron,
Understandable the frustration in finding the flaw in a house you like after searching for a number of months. It's stressful. My advice is limit your stress.
Put the oweness on the agents and the owner. Make an offer contingent on the successful determination and resolution of the damp stain within a specific time period.
If they're disinclined, you'll have a version of closure and will feel better about moving foward in another direction, maybe. Also, the agent you're using will be able to justify beating the bushes some more--it wasn't just because you were scared, you had a legitimate concern.
Here's a thought ....
Pull back the carpet?
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Roar!