First off… I’d like to thank the participants of this forum for the help and suggestions given in the past.
My question now … I’m figuring for the appliances in the kitchen (new construction)… is it necessary for the dishwasher and kitchen sink to be next to each other… I’ve got about 15 feet of wall space and thinking about having the dishwasher to be at one end of the wall, then the stove and then the sink… with various cabinets between them all… this all is not written in stone… but just want to get a feeling regarding the location of sink and dishwasher if it’s necessary they be next to one another. thanks.
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How much walking do you want to do?
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It's a matter of walking the silverware (as it comes out of the dishwasher) to the other side of the stove where the silverware drawer is... or putting the sink on the other side of the stove and having the silverware cabinet right next to the dishwasher.... but I also realize there's convenience having the sink next to the dishwasher... so the question.... is it possible to not have the sink and dishwasher next to each other or... are there hook up issues about not having them next to each other.
You do have some added plumbing cost.
If the walking fits for you it can be done, but do you need to consider resale?I have a hard time answering a Q like this based on only the one thing. It is always a matter of priority of values to design a kitchen or anything else. Meaning there are hundreds of variables, some highly important and some less so, some items fixed in place and some that can be adjusted in size or placement.
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Yes, there will be extra roughin costs for plumbing. I like the dishwasher next to the sink so I can sort stuff that goes inside vs. handwashed stuff. Plus it lets you run a bit of hot water so the machine gets high temp water.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
most DWs heat thier own water
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Ya, I know, but everyone seems terribly confused about amperage, wire guage, heating load, water temp etc. The electrician I hired to do our rental suite (because I wasn't allowed to wire it, being a separate dwelling), made common practice of 14-2 with a 15 amp breaker for a DW. This is pretty lean for a motor and heating load. Hence, I like to put it next to the sink with 12 guage wire, and give it a shot of hot water.
Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
"most DWs heat thier own water"
True, but according to the instructions to our dishwasher (KitchenAid), the temperature of the incoming water is very important.
The manufacturer specs 120 degree minimum, and instructs to run the sink hot water tap until the water reaches maximum temperature. The dishwater draws very little water, so without "precharging" the line, the incoming water could be very cold.
We noticed a difference in how well the dishwasher cleaned after increasing the waterheater setting from 110 to 120, even with precharging.
(Long story, but our only shower at the time had only the hot water lined connected, hence the 110 degrees. Actually it was quite convenient ... no fussing for the correct temperature and the hot water tank was nearby ... nearly instant hot water at the shower.)
Allen
You can rationalize all you want to about how infrequently you think you might have to make that walk. The bottom line is, it will be a PITA. Don't do it. I can't even think of a single reason to split the two up. It's a question of flow.
I am a prof. cook who's also putting in a new kitchen. For flow, the main sink should be next to DW. Eating utensils fit into their own little carrier, so you can place silverware drawer wherever.
My fav plan is FRIDGE, counter over drawers with knives, storage wraps, etc., STOVE, counter with trash bins, SINK, counter over Dishwasher. Also, I like to have drawers away from baseboard heat to store onions, spuds and spices to stay as fresh as possible. Essential to me, no longer a luxury, is an island or peninsula. If you have room, consider installing one. Can have sink and DW in that unit.
Another hint, try to have glass baking dishes in lower cabinets because a fluke such as one "exploding" could mean eye damage. This has happened to me twice now, taking clean "flameproof" dishes out of cupboards, and for reasons known only to aliens, the pieces shattered.
So I've given plenty of thought to all things kitchen. We have 50s Kitchen in PB Florida and brand new one in Cape Elizabeth, Maine which I helped design and it's quite something for me to go between the two, believe me. (I work & reside on premises of my employers - that' why I'm thrilled to be getting my own little place. AWAY!)
The main thing is to give plenty of thought to what you do most in the area, what utensils, dishes, ingredients you most use and make accommodations for them. If the Layout works for you, that's the primary goal. I'll be happy to answer other questions or give you my tips, if you'd like. I only say this cuz I spend 5-10 hours daily in kitchens.
Hoping to retire while I can still enjoy life. Good luck 2U
They don't have to be right next to each other, but is sure is simpler.
Almost all d/w are predicated on tapping the h/w line under tha djacent sink, and draining into the tail piece of either the drain or disposal.
Running a longer h/w line to the d/w not so bad, but a long run for the drain could be a hassle.
If your AHJ requires an airgap through the conter-top is can be a hassle, too, to be "away" from the sink. The electrical will be the electrical either location.
raise it up about 18" off of the floor, and you will not have to bend down to load.
Another option along that line is the new dishdrawers
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I saw the "new dishwashers" where they are about half the size (from top to bottom).. where you can do like, half a load. They seem interesting.Thanks all for your help and suggestions. The kitchen is turning out to be the expensive room of the house... so trying my best to get it right.thanks again.
Kitchens usually are the most high tech and most expensive real estate.I did a kitchen with two of the dishdrawers - one on either side of the sink.The lady thinks of them as storage devices too I think;)
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I was all set to urge you to keep them together, then I read the entire thread and see that several people have beat me to it. - lol
as someone else said... think about raise'n it if you can... even 12" would be huge...
i'm still considering one in an island across from the sink... just a swing & 1/2 step from the sink.. i've done the motion and it seems to work... anyone done this before?
I'm also adding a second one in the butler pantry... where i'll have a second sink stack ovens & prep area... even if it's just a $250 unit it will serve as back up...
p
Warning on that latter. A butler pantry is usually closer to the dining room than the kitchen. It was placed there in part as a buffer between you and your geusts or family, and the noise, heat, and smells of the kithen back when the chinese cook was slaughering chickens right next to the stove.So when I put one in the butler's pantry, I am always asked for the quietest one I can find, so as not to disrupt or disturb thoughtfull after dinner conversations.'course, you an always retire to the smnoking room for that!;)
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I think I have seen one someplace where they did a sort of appliance tower, with the DW raised 10-12 inches, and a built in microwave just above that, which puts it at a convenient height also.So the whole stack of stuff went floor to ceiling with a cabinet surrondiong with drawer in botom and something or other on top - I can picture a bread box there
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Ponytl-
I did something similar in the last kitchen. The sink was next to the corner in an ell. The counter ran "back", to the left of the sink. We had a couple cabinets in the corner and the dishwasher was behind the sink on the left. It seemed to work out pretty well. My wife said it worked for her. (If the verbal explanation is too vague, let me know and I'll post a drawing.)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
It is snot about the unloading of the dishwasher to the drawers, it is about the loading. Rinse stuff in the sink and just turn to the dishwasher to load. If you have to carry individual wet dripping stuff from the sink to the dishwasher across the room...that would deserve three lashes with a wet noodle ;-)
As a side note, I have a friend that has two dishwashers in his kitchen. Fill one and wash then fill the second one and use the clean out of the first one. They seldom put dishes and utensils back in drawers or cabinets.
The dishes go in the sink first. That hasn't changed since the advent of dishwashers. But you don't wash them any more. You rinse them off and put them in the dishwasher. After the dishwasher is poaded ( might take a few meals) the ddishwasher is turned on.
If I moved the dishwasher just a few feet away from the sink my wife would have a fit. She rinses them and bends over to put them in the wahser. She might take one step to lean over. That's it.
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There is no correct answer, a right-handed person typically will hold a dish in the left hand and use the right hand to scrape or wash the dish, therefore making it easier to load dishes into a dishwasher positioned to the left of the sink. The opposite applies to a left-handed person.
I usually recommend that a dishwasher be positioned next to the sink. There are two reasons for this: The first is that it will make plumbing much easier and less costly, and the second is behavioral. People generally use a "scrape, rinse, load" method to load their dishwasher. This involves scraping leftovers from dishes into the trash, then giving dishes a quick rinse before loading them into the dishwasher. Consequently, the best placement is on the opposite side of the sink from the scraping area.