Ok, I contracted a designer/builder to draw up a few possible plans for expanding my tiny kitchen…it seems that one wall (load-bearing, no less) must come down…I do have the help/experience of a friend who has built a few houses…Am I wrong to think that the rest of this project i.e., flooring, cabinets could be done by me and my friends? Well, that’s it for now…
Laura
When deck posts exceed what the prescriptive code tables allow, it's time to consult a structural engineer for post sizing and possible bracing.
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Replies
Depends on your levels of skill, courage, patience, etc.
Some people should never even LOOK at a hammer or screwdriver, let alone pick one up to use.
All others need are some hints and instructions, and advance planning.
We're here to help with that.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
How big of a wall?
What kind of beam do you need?
How much weight is the wall carrying?
How much time do you have to invest in the project?
How good are the skills of you and your friend?
How comitted is your friend to helping? (Obviously people have a life)
Anyone can do remodelling when things are going well. Can you keep going when you're a month behind schedule and 50% over budget?
I don't really think that we can answer the question for you.
Removing a load bearing wall can be hairy at first but becomes routine after enough experience. Just make sure you are prepared.
The load-bearing wall that must come down must also be replaced by some other load-bearing structure, be it a post, truss, beam, or whatever. And of course, you must support the load with some sort of temporary support from the time you take out the wall until you install the new permanent support.
That's the tricky part.
Generally, this stuff isn't really rocket science but it can get complicated, especially for a kitchen remod where you've gotta deal with almost all the trades and subtrades: Framing, electrical, plumbing, gyprock, tile, cabinetry, paint, and trim-out. Go into this knowing that you will fall behind schedule (probably everything will take twice or three times as long as you think it will) and you will go over budget (doubling your first estimate is a good way to get an idea of the real minimum cost).
Hell, even professionals who've been at this for 15+ years goof on estimates occasionally. It's part of the game.
As long as you're ready for the certainty that it won't go the way you think it will, go ahead and dive in. Post your questions here as you go along; you'll get a baker's dozen of contradictory answers on each point and you can practise figuring out who to believe....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
There was a recent article in FHB that showed how to build a beam in place on a load bearing wall, this might be handy for you and your friend to look at before you begin.
Really, none of what you are wanting to do is rocket science. The hard part is not doing it, the hard partS are doing it in a reasonable amount of time, with a reasonable amount of mess, within a reasonable budget, and getting everything PERFECT.
For hanging the cabinets, look up something called "French Cleats". I wish I had seen that before I hung mine.
Run your flooring under your cabinets, or at least shim them up to the flooring height - otherwise you'll never get your dishwasher in or out.
Keep us up to date!
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
I took out an exterior wall and did so without building a temp wall. Open up both sides. Took half 1" 1/2 off the inside of each stud hammered in the 2 x 10. went to the other side took out the remainder of the 2x4 put up the 1/2 inch ply and the other 2x10 then removed the studs. Worked great for me. Didn't disturb the existing floor or the existing ceiling which was plaster.
Shhhhh! Don't give it all away!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
I,ve done this...so....FWIW
First, educate your self as to the load, forget the engineer, cheaper to do 4x overkill, then think about a steel I-beam. Lighter and stronger than any kind of wood.
WSJ
"First, educate your self as to the load, forget the engineer,"
wow ... U must be a super duper DIY'er ...
I do this work professionally and I still call my engineer.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
In my town, you are required to have an engineer sign off on the plans before you can remove a load bearing wall.
I do this work professionally and I still call my engineer.
Hell, I'm an engineer and I still call an engineer.
I usually consult with a doctor before I do any self medication these days, too.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I'm both a GC and a PE, but I still get reality checks whenever it seems appropriate. I also self medicate in that I have a bourbon on the rocks every day. If the medical profession disapproves, they can kiss my..........!! - lol
I'm both a GC and a PE, but I still get reality checks whenever it seems appropriate.
Well spoken.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. - Hunter S Thompson
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
"wow ... U must be a super duper DIY'er ..."
Jeff,
I hope that was a complement....Put a 26' long, I believe it was a w10x6 cantilevered by 4' in my place, on a 20' 4"x4"x .250 post to support my second floor, which at the time was supported (LOL) by a bearing un-supported wall. ie, poured a footing in my basement, and ran the pole up to the second floor. Weighed approximately. 1,000 lbs and had to pass it though a tiny window. Was a two day project, with all the bolting and welding.
Jon B.
"I hope that was a complement...."
it wasn't.
none of what you just typed means it was done right btw.
me ... I pay the engineer a coupla bucks and I sleep great at night.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I don't know if he did it right either, but there's no reason to believe he couldn't have worked out the loads without an engineer. I doubt I have used an engineer on 5% of the houses I've built. On most of the rest I didn't have to do any calcs either. Sized everything including steel beams and glulams from the tables in our building code.
I can see you like numbers.So here is something for your statement.Putting in a beam to replace a wall can easily be a couple thousand. So you are saying that making it into a $8000 job instead of consulting an engineer for 3-700 bucks is a wise thing to do?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Yes, you are correct, I do like numbers. If one has half a brain, the numbers can be calculated for free. How many homes that are "professionally engineered" and built by "pro's" and "signed off on" by the local inspector are the biggest pieces of $hit in the world?
Usually they are the first ones to leak when it rains, have the foundations crack when they settle, drywall screw pops all over, and usually have moisture problems. ect, ect.
Then HO try's to sue, but you know what, everybody, including the engineer is gone.
I just spent the past month on jury duty hearing cases like this. IMO, a degree on your wall and a pickup truck on a lease do not make you a pro. And most real homebuilders can do their own math, and if you can't, don't tackle the project.
WSJ
Edit: and BTW, I think I spent about $300 on the project..........plus $12.00 for beer after completion.
Edited 4/29/2009 10:34 am ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 4/29/2009 10:39 am ET by WorkshopJon
I won't argue the point you are making, but it seems to sidestep the issue here. There is a lot more to beam sizing than just placing a beam in. One has to know what loads are being transferred to it. I make a lot of money rebuilding things that are in failure because of undersizing or ignoring load paths by DIYs and hacks.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I make a lot of money rebuilding things that are in failure because of undersizing or ignoring load paths by DIYs and hacks."
Piffin,
Glad to hear that. My suggestion was simply that it often times is cheaper and better to overbuild, assuming you took the time to do your homework, than contract it all out and rely on others, regardless of thier "credentials".
When I used to work at JP, can't tell you how many times we would get an "engineered P0$hit tool" in for diagnosis and repair. But hey, an engineer designed it....But it still failed in the field.
When we designed stuff, we always triple checked everything, and overbuilt everything. Rarely did something of our's come back, except for fine tuning and maintenance. And with one exception, who did not work out, never had a single engineer.
Funny, but I got to fly a brand spank'in new Cessna 400 the other day. 5 times redundancy in some systems. I'm sure the plane would fly quite well "built to code and FAA spec.".....till you find yourself in a downdraft or with no electrical power.
WSJ
Edited 4/29/2009 2:49 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 4/29/2009 2:51 pm ET by WorkshopJon
An engineer designed that Cessna 400 you flew in and lived to tell about it.
As a non-engineer type who, I take it, despises engineers with college degrees, do you know about the eigenvalues and eigenvector stability calculations that that engineer had to figure out on that Cessna 400 so that it would remain stable in a no power situation? Also at 20,000 feet and no power you'll thank that engineer for the redundancy designed into the flight controls.
An engineer also designed the car you drove to the airport to fly in that plane and you lived to get there. An engineer designed that bridge you drove over in that car you drove to the airport.
Despite what you might read about in the papers about bridges that collapse I have to laugh at all of those blue collar types who immediately point to the incompetent engineers out there as the culprit when, as it turns out upon investigation, the usual perpetrator is the union guy who decided he knew better than the enginner and decided to cut corners and installed the component or components as he saw fit only to cause a catastrophy later and he's now nowhere to be found.
Plus those engineering flaws and mistakes you read about in the media are only those that get the attention. There are a bazillion things in this world, designed by engineers, that work faithfully and continually day in a day out because of their efforts that don't get the sensationalist coverage.
Pizza,
You don't know me, so please don't start a flame. My point was simply that not every job requires an engineer (BTW you spelled it wrong, it's engineer, not enginner LOL)
I doubt most people here call one to hang a picture frame, but hey, maybe you need to.
BTW, I've worked with engineer's most of my life, and have a great deal of respect for what they do. And that "blue collar comment"?.........what's up with that?
Nuf said,
WSJ
If you look elsewhere in my post I spelled engineer correctly several times. I'm sorry, I suppose you don't make mistakes.
"I doubt most people here call one to hang a picture frame, but hey, maybe you need to"
and you said you don't want to start a flame?
Nuf said. LOL
You spelled "enough" wrong too. LOL
Oh, I was wrong you do make alot of mistakes too.
In your sentence , "BTW, I work with alot of engineer's..." the word should be "engineers" no apostrophe needed. LOL
Pizza,
Namaste'
WSJ
FWIW spelling a much different skill than even basic math, much less calculation loads and beam size.I dont alwaz speel two gud, but my frind that is alwazs corwrecking my speeling could not figure out the sq feetage of some wals that she want to pant..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
One thing you should keep in mind when you post here.
There are people who will read this that might jump to conclusions based on your statements.
The building industry has a reputation for not doing things correctly and home owners getting ripped off.
So, for the industry as whole, it is a good idea to err on the side of hiring people who have credentials to back up their claims.
Err on the safe side when posting here. You represent more than yourself here.
I have had people here tell me I'm not going in the right direction and I have listened. All I'm saying to err on the side of caution for the sake of others. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
jon, I have no doubt that YOU are quite capable of sizing a beam yourself, for yourself.Where we differ is that you project that and appear to assume that any DIY can also take care of this for themselves, with no knowledge of their capabilities for analising the structural load paths of the building, or of how complicated the building is. most are pretty simple ranches that folks try to DIY a bearing wall in. Some even assume bearing because of perp to other framing, but having trussed roof frame they are actually not bearing walls sometimes, and they go to the expense and aggravation of building a header and securing load path to foundation when not even needed.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"jon, I have no doubt that YOU are quite capable of sizing a beam yourself, for yourself."
Piffin,
Nice to get a compliment here and there.
I do agree with you there are tasks some people shouldn't take on. At least without proper research and education...and the right tools and set of willing friends. IMO, plumbing a house requires alot more of the above than a bearing wall removal. But that's why we have books and magazines like FHB.
WSJ
Hey WSJ what does a cessna 400 cost nowadays?? My Dad years ago bought a cesnna 172 full ifr for 35 grand (1979) sorry for the hi-jack gentlemen. stinky
ST,
Just shy of $900K. But an absolute pleasure to fly compared to all the 172's I've flown, as well as Piper's, Bonanza's, A Cirrus SR20, 152's, and a Lancair VI-P (well the last does have excellent specs. put is quite a handfull in the air). Plus, it's an experimental.
WSJ
Sounds like you have some serious left seat time...general aviation just did not take off like i thought it would years ago..Its to bad.Be safe Stinky
St,
Link to my EAA Chapter, fun bunch of pilots, Have your sound on and give it a few seconds to load.
http://www.eaa1158.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
WSJ
Very cool operation. We have two young girls in the house, maybe if we were closer and I was not in the "trades" I could afford to send them to your camp. Nice music. stinky
"Very cool operation"
Thanks ST.
Generally, we cover the entire cost for the kids, and hand out a $1,000 scholarship
But we don't help out building one anothers airplanes, as we are not engineers, thus have no clue what we do. We don't do that because we don't have the largest EAA Chapter on the planet, nor have the nicest hanger, and there are no two airplanes under construction there as we converse because of that. LOL. and anything in that video didn't happen, because we didn't have a "licensed pro" to make the video.
WSJ
Edited 5/1/2009 9:54 pm ET by WorkshopJon
"Funny, but I got to fly a brand spank'in new Cessna 400 the other day. 5 times redundancy in some systems. I'm sure the plane would fly quite well "built to code and FAA spec.".....till you find yourself in a downdraft or with no electrical power."
To be clear: Are you saying the 400 performed so well because is it built so far in excess of any FAR requirements? Or that a bunch of "you" EAA guys, not an engineer in the bunch sat around one afternoon with a case of beer, dreamed up this airplane for Cessna and told them "Skip the those bothersome engineers, most of whom don't know sheeeit anyway, and we'll take care of the details"?
'Cause if that's so, "you guys" (since you seem fond of catagorizing people) should quit messing around with these little rinky-dink airplane makers and start talking to the big boys like Boeing, Airbus, et al. I mean, really... Let the world know of this fount of wisdom and knowledge just waiting to be tapped.
Sorta' makes me think of ole' Harry Callahan in "Magnum Force"... "A man's got to know his limitations" Maybe some of the people commenting on this thread do, recognize it, and act accordingly.
I digress.
To address the original question: Sounds like the services of an engineer are in order.
Sam
Edited 5/2/2009 6:55 pm ET by Samd12563
>...this fount of wisdom and knowledge just waiting to be tapped.<
no need to wait any longer, it's spewing right now.
yep , just waiting to hear the flush.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"'Cause if that's so, "you guys" (since you seem fond of catagorizing people) should quit messing around with these little rinky-dink airplane makers and start talking to the big boys like Boeing, Airbus, et al. I mean, really... Let the world know of this fount of wisdom and knowledge just waiting to be tapped."
Sam,
Actually we do talk to them, alot. Airbus is flying in a Dreamliner to EAA this Summer, and Boeing usually has a few things on display also.
Incidentally those two companies are having financial issues, and as far as your comment about the Cessna 400, a Lancair-VI, http://www.lancair.com/Main/iv_ivp.html
which is only available as an amateur built experimental homebuilt, will outperform the Cessna big time at 1/2 to a 1/3 the price. And has a fairly decent safety record for what it is, despite the fact that they are built, for the most part, in peoples garages, by non-engineers, often with one of a kind powerplants (auto engines) and homemade reduction drives.
It's just is a little touchy to fly, as they don't have all the built-in compensations Cessna's do.
WSJ
>Airbus is flying in a Dreamliner... <
How come Boeing's not going to fly it in?
">Airbus is flying in a Dreamliner... <"
My mistake. They are flying in an A380, but a Boeing dreamliner is tentatively scheduled.
WSJ
WJ, I think your approach to sizing YOUR beams is fine, and judging from your posts over the years, I know you know what you're doing, even when you're guessing<G>I'm not a pilot, but my dad flew B-17s (plural cause it was hard to bring them all back in one piece at the time). He had a Bonanza that he let us kids fly, I could really make my little brother puke faking landings<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Yeah, one of these days we'll get that tube of glue and rags in the air... One of these days.
S.
"Yeah, one of these days we'll get that tube of glue and rags in the air... One of these days."
S,
You must mean people like Burt Rutan, founder of Scaled Composites, and a fellow EAA member who built the Global Flyer and Space Ship One, out of carbon fiber and epoxy. Not that they circled the globe and went into space on a nickle .
Yeah, we're just a bunch of uneducated, bear drinking idiots.......who seem to be able to do what NASA can't....despite... their efficient LOL......bureaucracy and "talent".
Sitting back and having breakfast drinking coffee and/or an OJ and sharing ideas has it's benefits. Trying to prove you right on BT?????????
Some people like to find fault. Some like to accomplish things. Something to think about....
WSJ
WSJ,
Ya' read me wrong on that one... You might say I'm sorta' "familiar" with the company building the '87... I just don't like advertising it- If you get my meaning. And, yeah, we bust each other's chops about what they're built from... My side of the fence uses a titanium airframe- so we get a lot of mileage out the G&R boys.
"forget the engineer, cheaper to do 4x overkill,"Doubt hat highly, and a DIY has no idea what overkill or underkill is to begin with
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Laura,
I'm a licensed professional engineer. If you are removing a load bearing wall and you do not know how to calculate the load that it was supporting, or size the beam to carry that load, you should consult with an engineer to help you out. That way you can have the smallest beam possible that will safely carry the load.
You can also read the state building code book, which simplifies the problem for you, as long as you can understand it fully. If you plan on having the work inspected by the local building inspector, please call the inspector and consult with him as well, because he will ultimately be approving the work.
Paul Formisano, P.E.
"That way you can have the smallest beam possible that will safely carry the load."
Paul,
And according to that line of thinking, The World Trade Centers are still be standing, but the Brooklyn Bridge is not.
Just venting,
WSJ
Let me clarify.
Engineering for the design load allows you the have the smallest amount of structural material that will safely carry the load. All properly sized beams carry a factor of safety.
The factor of safety (FS) represents the number of times stronger a structural member is over what will exactly carry the load. When human life is at stake, a FS of 4 or more is often used.
If you don't know what you need, you have no way of knowing for sure if you have too much or too little.
However, the governing factors that size a beam are more for deflection, not for load. You want your floors to be stiff so that they do not flex, for example.
If beams only needed to be sized for loads, we would have a lot of bouncy 2x6 floors.
Your comment about the failure of the WTC does not make any sense to me.
"When human life is at stake, a FS of 4 or more is often used."
Paul,
I'm happy to agree with you on that one. Much engineering is very complex,...some is not. I think we are on the same page.
My, earlier suggestion was simply, not every project requires an engineer who may or may not have as much field experience as a journeyman, or DIY for that matter. Sometime experience and common sense over ride a diploma.
Don't know if you ever saw the movie Apollo 13, but in the the movie an actor (acting as an engineer) chimes in and says "that's a quadruple failure, that can't happen......".......but it did...
Many structures that were un "engineered" have stood for well over a thousand years, many that were engineered only lasted 20 or less.
WSJ
Edited 4/30/2009 5:17 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 4/30/2009 5:18 pm ET by WorkshopJon
do you do this work professionally, do you charge customers money and and are you held responsible for the many, many beams that you've installed for others?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff
"do you do this work professionally?"
No, I try to work to a higher standard than most "pros"
"do you charge customers money"
Rarely, but when I do, it's modest, usually cost of materials
"are you held responsible....."
If one doesn't accept payment, I believe I'm off the hook bearing gross negligence.
WSJ
well then in a thread titled "DIY Load Bearing wall" ...
I suppose your DIY advice was what they asked for, paid for and received.
"No, I try to work to a higher standard than most "pros" "
Nice attitude displayed there btw. Especially considering the website you like to frequent. I'll keep that in mind when you post your next question.
My point by asking that question ... is there's a world of difference between "doing it yourself for yourself" ....
and actually building for others and having the repsonsibility that comes with such a task. Legally and morally. I can guess at sizing beams just as well as you can, more likely better as I'd be willing to bet real money I've installed more beams, and larger beams, and more complicated beams as you have and will ever do so.
Simply as a function of my daily work.
And I won't DIY beams on my own jobsites.
Because I'm a professional.
but stick to your guns here ... no sense admitting you were wrong.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Sorry Jeff,
"And I won't DIY beams on my own jobsites.
Because I'm a professional."
Sorry, but I guess you don't know how to calculate loads, and use a calculator. and you call yourself a "professional". of what?
WSJ
not engineer.
let's start there.
how's that work for ya?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff,
Time to shake hands and hope for an end to this thread.
Jon B.
Interesting in how this discussion has gone."Am I wrong to think that the rest of this project ..."My impression for the start was that she was ask about the REST of the project and went on to list the cabinets, flooring, etc.And while she did read the first few replies they where before the discussion about replacing the wall."Ok, I contracted a designer/builder to draw up a few possible plans for expanding my tiny kitchen...it seems that one wall (load-bearing, no less) must come down...I do have the help/experience of a friend who has built a few houses...Am I wrong to think that the rest of this project i.e., flooring, cabinets could be done by me and my friends? Well, that's it for now...".
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
"My impression for the start was that she was ask about the REST of the project and went on to list the cabinets, flooring, etc."
Yeah and if you look back it was all Bosshog's fault. The rest of us were just Lemmings following him off the cliff.
My impression for the start was that she was ask about the REST of the project and went on to list the cabinets, flooring, etc.
I was preoccupied ... did you at least answer her question?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Good lord, this thread went bad fast!
I like to overbuild. I like to use more expensive materials, more nails, more studs, better paint, better sealants, bigger rafters than required (next project), two layers of felt when one is required, bigger and better fasteners spaced four inches apart, pressure treated when good ol' sugar pine would probably be just fine, two boards tacked together with glue when one would probably work, green-board when the plain ol' white sheetrock would work, yellow sheetrock where the green stuff goes, metal studs for my soffits when 2x2s would be easier to find, I treat field-cuts every chance I get, I put two beams where one beam could go, I blind-nail and face-nail the same clapboard, I wrap/flash/tape and seal every joint I can.................I'm a full-time tradesman, part-time designer/carpenter/painter/plumber/floor installer/ "DIY-er". ( I really don't understand the resentment associated with that phrase. Nobody here just started out a super carpenter, everyone here started from nowhere. And for the most part, I "do-it-myself" all day at work, and home).
Code is minimum requirements. You will use less materials if you use the best materials (x2) and not have to replace them in two years.
All of this being said, I know my limitations. I'm not going to try and attempt anything at my house or a customer's that I don't feel at least a little comfortable with. If a job starts off with "how do I do that?", then chances are I'm going to need someone's assistance with more knowledge about the job than I.
"do you do this work professionally?" No, I try to work to a higher standard than most "pros"Your comments here about sizing beams 4x as large as needed belies that statement.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Your comments here about sizing beams 4x as large as needed belies that statement."
Piffin,
Judging from all the posts on this thread, most people here practice CHEAP homebuilding, build to the bare minimum of what "code" calls for. Not fine home building. Now I know you guys have to compete on bids, but.....?
Frugalnis ist nicht substute für Qualität
Done,
WSJ
Edited 5/1/2009 4:10 pm ET by WorkshopJon
"Frugalnis ist nicht substute für Qualität"Was that supposed to be German?BruceT
Supposed to be?
Actually, it was, but there are many dialects.
Haben einen schönen Sonntag
WSJ
Edited 5/3/2009 10:24 am ET by WorkshopJon
Are you making friends again? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
Duane,
How've you been?
To quote you, sparing can be fun...with guys. And yeah, I consider virtually BT er's to be friends, even if we disagree.
Better than how women do it....complemeting each other, then immediately dis'ing the "friend behind their back" to the other friend i.e. "those are such cute shoes." Friend leaves to "freshen up" said friend says "I can't believe she's wearing those, there're at least a year out of style."
Pick a fight with a guy, never hit a women,
Jon B. aka WSJ
.
Edited 5/3/2009 12:37 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Having a great time on a rainy Sunday, shopping on CL, I just bought a sears RAD Arm saw, and a 6' trailer..LOL.
Yeah, knuckle headed friends on BT are a blast..I make sure I PO someone at least once a week, just so they know I care.(G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
different dialects don't change the grammar
Try Pa. Dutch...
"Say now, throw the cow over the fence some hay once."
Gotta wonder WTF they were thinking..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
Never talked to Pa that much anymore. He's got his life, I gots mine.
lolSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
Ebenso.BruceT
"If one doesn't accept payment, I believe I'm off the hook bearing gross negligence."
Like most things, you need to understand the details before you make some statements. Here where I am (New Brunswick, Canada, about 6 hr North of Piffinland), a Professional Engineer who gives engineering advice to anyone else is deemed to be an expert on the subject, by virtue of giving the advice, and being a Professional.
So, for example, if a Professional Engineer gives his neighbor advice on how to build a retaining wall, based on sitting in the backyard and having a cold beer or two, the engineer could be held responsible if the wall fails due to bad advice (engineering). Even if, say, the engineer is an electrical engineer, and knows nothing about retaining walls. He is a Professional Engineer, and the law says that a layperson should be able to rely on the advice of a Professional.
So maybe, by 'not accepting payment', you can duck responsibility. Maybe not. But to know that for certain for your jurisdiction might require using a professional (ie, lawyer)...far better to cross your fingers, and hope for the best.
Did your designer/builder give you any plans for carrying the loads after the wall is removed?
Do any of your friends know how to build a temporary wall to carry the loads while the new wall gets built and the old one removed?
To quote Clint Eastwood.........."Do you feel lucky"?