At least they had this room heater’s gas supply shut off….
Hint here: no, not the duct tape on flue seam ….
Edited 11/24/2005 7:42 pm ET by rjw
Edited 11/24/2005 7:44 pm ET by rjw
Edited 11/24/2005 7:45 pm ET by rjw
Edited 11/24/2005 7:46 pm ET by rjw
Replies
You mean the damper I assume...? GEEZE
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Nie dajê siê olœniæ statkami parowymi i kolej¹ ¿elazn¹. Wszystko to nie jest cywilizacj¹. - Francois Chateaubriand (1768 - 1848) "
Yeah Bob, I see what you mean.
It's real dangerous to close the damper on the flue, so it doesn't suck warm air out of the house....
After you have physically disconnected the gas from the heater and plugged that gas supply line...
Does death wish refer to the fact that the heater is ....erm.... dead... ???
Leaving the damper open leaves a 4 or 5 inch "hole" open, and worse. This one actually sucks the warm air from your home.
Are we going to be seeing chicken little warnings about empty shotgun shells too ? After all, at one time they were dangerous, you know...
America is a country which produces citizens who will cross the ocean to fight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote.
The fact that there is a damper there is the death wish.
It is very simple: don't put non-interlocked dampers on combustion appliances. Period.
Have a combustion appliance and you don't want heat to go up the chimney when it isn't burning? put on a electro-mechanical damper with an interlock to the burner.
Have the unit disconnected and don't want to loose that air? Disconnect and seal the vent.
Unfortunately, many/most people these days don't have a clue about combustion appliances and safe operation, so whoever installs a CA had better follow the rules because the odds are whoever uses won't know how to use it safely.
Or, if they do, might just screw upo and forget to open the damper?
Sorry if you think this is overly safe.
How many CAs do you see on a regular basis with a flue damper? How many do you see with the damper closed or partially closed when it in operation? How many people do you talk to about how to safely use their CAs?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 11/24/2005 10:15 pm ET by rjw
Damper aside I don't think the relative position of the gas appliance under a drain line is very swift. I don't know about gas heating appliance regulations but if it was an electric panel it would be disallowed.I would think dripping water, from condensation or a leak, might tend to damage the equipment, I noticed what looks like rust on the unit, and/or put out the pilot light. Either could conceivably lead to safety issues.A bit more distant in concern I would think rising heat from the heater would do the drain line little, if any, good. A circular situation as a damaged drain line wouldn't do the heater any favors.
Hadn't thought of that in relation to a heater.And I've only thought about the plumbing above panels issues as a supply line - shows how we can miss the obvious!)Question: if the heater had electricity (blower, ignition, whatever) would the "no plumbing above" rule apply? Or is that only for load centers?FWIW, the waste line was only a year or two old from when the toen where the house was added city waste and the new drain lines had an inspection sticker....
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Forgot about this thread. Sorry about not answering in a timely manner.Per the 2005 NEC. The applicable Code section is 110.26 "Spaces About Electrical Equipment".Specifically 110.26(F) The prohibition applies only to 'dedicated work space' above "all switchboards, panelboards, and motor control centers".Space "equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending fromthe floor to to a height 6' above the equipment or to the structural ceiling. Whichever is lower.""No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone."Exception is made for suspended ceilings with removable panels and sprinkler protection as long as protection is provided "protection is provided to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks or breaks".Some, I hear its more like many, AHJs tend to be strict as to what they consider adequate protection because the water and drain lines are fairly easy to keep out of this area. Usually it is a simple lack of planning on the part of the plumbers or AC men. This sort of lack of planning is also seen as a lack of skill and/or professionalism.
re dangerous shotgun shells, always picked up my empties 'cause I reloaded, but a friend who worked for the PA game comission showed me a picture of a deer someone shot, weirdest thing I ever saw, had a shotgun shell on its tongue, well actually its tongue grew right through the primer hole, was healthy in all other respects .. just goes to show you can never be sure about anything ..
WOW !
America is a country which produces citizens who will cross the ocean to fight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote.
I'm 48 and grew up in a poor family and we lived in a house with a floor furnace in the 1950's and 1960's.The house had a basement and a smaller version of the furnace you have in the picture.I don't remember anything about a flue with our furnace and from what I recall the free standing furnace worked fine for us for many years.Just an opinion.
The floor furnaces I grew up with were oil fired, and had an atmospheric damper and flue.We added a gas central heat after the night that the botom rusted out of the one floot furnace and dumped the flaming oil on the cellar floor. It made for an exciting night. I think I was about 12YO
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My memory on that kind of appliance from thirty years ago, is that it is a manual control burner, so a manual control damper would bne fine as long as you know what you are doing
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
>>My memory on that kind of appliance from thirty years ago, is that it is a manual control burner, so a manual control damper would bne fine as long as you know what you are doingI don't see many, but of the one's I do see, some (probably most) are manual, some have integral thermostats.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
since the gas supply is disconnected and plugged - I'm guessing that heater is heading out to the scrap pile - I'll agree that the manual damper is dangerous but the whole heater is a hazard - single non-insulated stack, no visible source of combustion make-up air, combustion chamber could be damaged since it doesn't look particularly well maintained, nothing to indicate the stack is correctly installed - time for that thing to go....
Good points.Re makeup air: that's a regional thing. General rule of thumb, you need it if the CA is in a restricted area, meaning an area with less than 50 cu ft space per 1,000 btu.Non-insulated stack: Again regional: in my area even if it were a new installation it wouldn't need b-vent since it feeds straight to a masonry chimney without passing through an unheated area -- but I agree b-vent would be better; those single wall vents get pretty darned hot.I haven't done enough tests on this type of space heater to get a got sample, but, if I recall, the one's I've tested have had flue temps similar to the olde drafthood type atmospheric furnaces: 500° +/-
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 11/25/2005 6:39 am ET by rjw
The damper as stated but one other item I noticed the gas pipe has a water valve . Oh and no drip leg.
Waddaya mean dangerous? This is an example of forward thinking and energy conscious design. If the heater doesn't work or the power goes out, they can close that damper, disconnect the flex line, and just light a flame at the output of the valve. Voila! Instant vent-free heater.
So what's your take on fireplaces? They are CA with a manually operated flue, just as this heater is.
I'd say a fireplace can't light itself if you close the flue and forget to turn off the thermostat and gas.
Robert
>>So what's your take on fireplaces? They are CA with a manually operated flue, just as this heater is.Yep.But with a firepalce, if someone forgets to open the flue when they start the fire, they will know it right away. That's not likely with a gas appliance.And many/most people will assume that if there is a damper on a space heater flue, it must be there for a reason and maybe close it down when the unit's in use.It could take several minutes for the flue gases to back up into the compbustion zone, turn the unit into a CO factory by blocking new oxyen to the flam, and then spill into the living space. Where, when it does spill, it will be odorless, tasteless, etc.Of course, no one at Breaktime would be stupid eneough to do something like that, but I talk to regular people everyday about this sort of stuff and and I have learnbed that most folks these days don't have a clue about how their houses, and the components in them, are supposed to work or what indications there are that they aren't working.Shoot, I know a heating contreactor in my area who thinks huge rust stains dripping from in-shot burner heat exchanger tubes are normal: "they all look that way!" (Maybe the one 's he services....)
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace