When you get material deliveries, do you count everything before you sign the ticket?
We were supposed to send a beam out recently on a job, along with some trusses and other beams. It was a floor truss order with several beams in the floor system. At the last minute, and additional beam was added on a separate ticket to be used as a garage door header.
The framer on the jobsite signed the ticket without really looking over the stuff – He didn’t notice the extra beam was missing.
The company refuses to send out the beam, since they have “proof” of delivery. The GC is pissed, and I don’t blame him.
I’ve known the GC and framers a long time. I believe them 100% when they say the beam didn’t make it there. But the big shots at the main office won’t budge. They say he has to pay for another beam.
I’m 99% sure I know what happened. Our drivers are lazy as heck. They looked over the order real quick after it was loaded on their truck, and saw that there were beams on it. So they didn’t look any further or bother counting the beams. Doesn’t really matter to them if everything is on the orders or not.
.
Don’t know that there’s a whole lot of point to this, except to remind y’all to check stuff when it’s delivered. Or deal with suppliers who aren’t as hard-assed as this company is.
How’s it going Mr. Peterson?
Poor.
I’m sorry to hear that.
No, I mean pour.
Replies
I usually just sign it if it a whole house package like that. Then if something is missing or we have something that we didn't order then I call up the yard and they fix whatever needs fixin.
That is a shame that they are being that way because it happens all the time. I guess it boils down to how much they trust the G.C.
Dave
We check the ticket and compare it to the delivery every time. This is not only to confirm that everything that is paid for is delivered, but also to learn if anything is short. That way we can anticipate completion schedules.
As for your Co.'s issue. The beam did not disappear. Somebody's got it. You might suggest to the powers that be, to call all the delivery locations that were a part of that load and see if they received the beam by accident. A GC who does a lot of biz with your Co. may respond with "Yeah, we were going to return it on our next delivery."
Many times it's a low-ladder person who checks the deliveries and it takes a few days for the Boss to learn about the overstock. He (the low-ladder guy/ employee) also may think that he is doing the Boss a favor by taking advantage of an error in the Co's favor or being the LLG/E felt it was his error for not being able to reconcile the overage under pressure.
I am sure your Boss gets frequent calls from people who misplaced, miscounted, underordered or used and item and want another for free. If the Co. gave in to every request teh Co would be out of buisness and you'd be out of a job. This is buisness. Your Boss's responsibility is to protect the Co., his/ her job, and your job. But I am not telling you something you don't already know.
BTW, sometimes the last or next delivery of a load gets the "surplus" material so the driver doesn't have to deal with it for the rest of the trip or when he gets back to the garage.
Life sometimes just plain sucks.
F.
Hey Dude! "if you think it was delivered come on out and find it on our house"
Or........."Would you mind double checking your inventory?"
Or..........."Look, I've got no way to hide or steal a 20' glulam for my garage
Get real! That's my last house package from you guys...................
Most the time we are not there to sign for a deck package because I have it delivered a few days before we get to the Job. I doubt the builder is trying to stiff the lumber yard. Maybe your yard should consider the loss of a good builder vs.the loss of a stick of lumber....................
Sorry to hear your boss is so anal................
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I know full well that I'm supposed to count each piece ...
sometime ... if it's nice outside ... I even do.
my yards real good about counting right when it's loaded .. they almost always get it right ...
I have called back when somethings missing ...
never got yelled at!
Their truck drivers ... mostly young kids for carry in deliveries ... are also real good about counting as they unload. We do a quick look see at the pile ... I usually trust their math better than mine.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
would it be cheaper to give the guy a beam or if everybody started holding the delivery guy up while they count the load. some trust somewhere
If I go to a yard and load up the lumber, then go inside to do the accounting, and when leaving, they stop me to check the load vs the receipt...then when they deliver, I do a count. If they don't trust me, I don't trust them.
When they take my word for what I loaded, I take their word for what they loaded.
Now, if it is an LVL/TJI type of load, I always count the pieces and I always measure the dimensions, and I always check for damage.
Windows/doors are the same, as are hangers, etc.
Stick lumber and sheet goods always seem to ebb and flow iwth the deliveries, no worry over them. They short me, or if they over me, we work it out in the end.
i'm about like you. The outfit I usually use - I have a good relationshipo with. If I call to say something's missing - they say OK send it out on the next truck. I have started checking the slips but not counting every single item because there have been more mistakes lately.
But I got a load from a different yard not long ago and standing out in the rain two delivery men are shoving a clipboard in my face for signature.
I startted to just sign off because of the nasty weather when something inside of me said, OK wait up here guys, let's do a count before I sign.
Sure enough, there were thirteen lengths and a box of elbows missing....hmmm, no wonder they were insistent on that signature. Wondering if something fell off at the buddies house.
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It sounds like a very short sighted strategey by your bosses. A contractor can make things awfully difficult for their suppliers if they want to or they can make things go easily. I can't imagine any of our suppliers questioning our position in a case like this.
I do sometimes count materials but it is usually to confirm that I ordered the right amount. Windows are a whole separate problem. I have seen invoices that are ten pages long and filled with an incomprehensible code. It would take hours to try to sort it out and almost invariably any mistake was made at the time of the order and wouldn't show up until we try to put the window in the opening. We have never had a problem resolving missing or broken window problems. This saves hours of our time and the driver's time on every house.
My truss company 99% of the time will give the GC more material. We have made deliveries, have the GC call with missing trusses, and found them down the street on some kids dog house! LOL! We have a good yard crew that checks the load and we also are required, as drivers, to make sure that all trusses, LVL. TJI, hangers, and what everything else is supposed to go, goes, or have a reason that it did not.
Want to make God laugh? Tell Him you've got plans.
- Anonymous
I think if I was the GC I would send a note with my payment thanking them for my last order.
Boss,
I always count the high dollar items (windows and such) for count, not necessarily size / count. Logic is they might send wrong size, but having something in hand gives room to debate size mix.
For the other stuff, suggest you have your guys ALWAYS annotate the delivery ticket "Shippers load and count" and sign that. That way, you're acknowledging that you received the delivery, but not verifying accuracy. Nobody seems to object and you have an arguing point if they can't find the beam at their other delivery sites.
Bob
Whilst i'm getting used to the US legalities, I continue my UK practices which were,
1) sign for the delivery and write above your signature 'Accepted unchecked'
2) count total items on bill and total items unloaded, far quicker than numbers of individual items and a good way to highlight irregularities
3) as the others have posted, always count the special order items like doors, windows etc.
Sounds like the boss has decided to 'make an example' of someone. Does this sort of thing happen a lot at your yard? Shame to lose a good GC's business.
Scooter
I wouldn't say it happens "a lot", but it happens.
I think I've figured out how to handle it. The customer will have to pay for the beam, which isn't stocked at our location and isn't under my control.
Bit there ARE some other materials the customer neds which ARE under my control which can change hands without HQ knowing about it. Never say I ain't creative.
As long as one of my bosses isn't reading this forum, everything should turn out O.K. (-:Remember men, you are fighting for the lady's honor, which is probably more than she ever did.
I've both worked in a lumberyard and been the customer. Mistakes happen. Have you ever loaded a lumber truck? With yard customers asking you questions at the same time? It's a wonder any load is dead on. The yard I worked in would almost always take the customer at his word, unless he was a known schister. I think your bosses might be shortsighted here.Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
You're willing to put your job on the line for this? To cover for your boss's poor business practices. It's your call, but I certainly wouldn't be willing to go that far if I were in your position.
What if he finds out about it and wants to make an example out of you too? Fire you, prosecute you? Remote chance, I know, but you never know. Seen and heard of more bizzare things.
And Ron, anyone reading this board can make a phone call to him, can't they. Not too hard to track down exactly where you work if someone wanted to. L word comes to mind.
I doubt I'm at much risk from my employer. Wouldn't be the first time I've "stirred the pot" a bit.
Basically all I'm trying to do is take care of a customer. I doubt there's anything they could prosecute me for.
I have a pretty good reputation for trying to take care of the customers I work with. I'm not gonna let my employer screw it up for me.Q: How do you turn a fox into an elephant?A: Marry her.
boss is acting within his authority, and on the owners behalf, to restore good customer relations.
If this owner actually wanted to fire BH for doing the right thing by the customer after the customer is getting screwed already, he is on the fast road to business failure and time for BH to bail and find other employment anyway
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Don't disagree with you, or Boss. Was just trying to suggest that bringing up this idea in a public forum probably isn't the best idea. Not everyone reading it is a friend.
And it sounds as though the boss is on his way to business failure, if he starts to make this a regular practice. He's trying to make an example out of a customer. I don't see it as much of a stretch for him to make an example of an employee. If it is time for Boss to move on, I would think he'd much rather it on his terms.
boss is acting within his authority, and on the owners behalf, to restore good customer relations.
After a little more thought, I don't think I can agree with this either. If you had a disagreement with a customer of yours, and your foreman or whomever decided he didn't agree with your decision and decided to just give the customer something of yours to make him feel better, would you think he was acting on your behalf?
I think you would accept his decision, remind him to discuss things like that with you first, and move on. But you sound like a more reasonable person than the boss we are talking about.
We do have a customer always right most of the time here but pick customers carefully too.
And anybody who doesn't share my style doesn't stay around long enough to be empowered to give anything of mine away.
But we do agree that this owner seems to be slitting his own throat.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
And anybody who doesn't share my style doesn't stay around long enough to be empowered to give anything of mine away
That was kind of my point. So why is it Ok just because the policy or decision of the owner is so piss poor. He's the boss, the materials are his, and ultimately the decision is his, no?
"So why is it Ok just because the policy or decision of the owner is so piss poor. He's the boss, the materials are his, and ultimately the decision is his, no?"
Tough question. And I don't know that what I'm doing is 100% correct.
But - I know pretty much for a fact that the beam was NOT delivered. All I'm doing is getting it delivered, in a roundabout way. I'm not taking anything from the company or giving anything to the customer that's not rightfully theirs. And I'm not benefiting financially in any way.
When the company hired me it was in part because of my reputation. So in a way, I'm protecting something that they hired me for.
Right or wrong, that's good enough for me.Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak lit a fire in the bottom of their kayak to keep warm. It sank, proving once and for all that you can't have your kayak and heat it too.
If one of my employees went out of his way to correct one of my mistakes with a customer, especially at some personal risk, I hope that I would have the brains to thank him for it. An employee who cares about his own integrity and the integrity of the company is very rare and should be treasured by any employer.
But what if you didn't agree with the employee that it was a mistake on your part? That's what we're really dealing with here. This boss is too stubborn, dumb or ?? to consider his decision a mistake. Then an employee decides to do exactly opposite what the boss has decided.
Are you guys really trying to tell me you'd be so forgiving. Forget the fact that you would realize it was a mistake, and the employee was using better judgment than you. In this case, his boss doesn't feel that way. Perhaps there are other reasons Boss Hogg doen't know about for the hard line stance in this case. This is purely hypothetical, I know Ron is acting in his employer's best regards.
"But what if you didn't agree with the employee that it was a mistake on your part? That's what we're really dealing with here. This boss is too stubborn, dumb or ?? to consider his decision a mistake. Then an employee decides to do exactly opposite what the boss has decided. "
As long as the employee didn't rub my nose in it, he could easily take care of a customer who had been shortchanged. As Boss Hog has said, there are many ways for him to help out a customer that will recompense him for his loss. For instance how many times have employees at the lumber yard we use the most put extra wood on a load that has lumber of questionable quality. This is true of any employee who is granted a measure of independence. The employee is expected to use that independence to further the goals of the company as they see fit. If the decisions he makes are consistently at odds with his boss's wishes, the employee will probably have a change of circumstances.
No, not if he is screwing the customer and something can be done to fix it.
Yours is the hard line legalistic approach. Take that to it's logical end and boss and all the customers have no option but to quit dealing with the business. Who does that benefit?
The law is made to serve man, not the other way around. Look at the spirit of the law. It is there to encouragfe right doing and to discourage wrong doing.
I'm gonna do what's right.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Honestly, I do appreciate your concern. You may be right that posting something about what I planned to do on a public forum wasn't the best idea in the world. It ain't the first time I've done something without thinking first.
Whether what I'm doing is right or wrong could be debated for a heck of a long time here, and I'm sure there would be plenty of disagreement. But I'm the one who has to either do it or not do it.
I've decided that my reputation is more important to me than this job is. Since I have virtually ZERO doubt that this guy is telling the truth, I see no reason not to repay him as I see fit. I know I'm only giving the customer what they've rightfully paid for - Just in a slightly different form.She's afraid that if she leaves, she'll become the life of the party.
I agree with your position, anyway. Just maybe not your right to act on it like you want to. I might do the same if in a similar position. Just thought it made for an interesting discussion.
I usually count materials on delivery out of habit growing up working in a warehouse in recieving. I still just sign if I dont count though. Never had anyone hassle me if I report something short later. Never saw anyone hassled about it when I made deliveries either. Either your boss knows something you dont or hes being a fool. I made enough deliveries to know that things end up wrong on the delivery side more often than the recieving end.