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Lemme put it this way…
In the sub $1M houses I work in as a finish carpenter, scribe moulding is accepted, even expected.
In the $1M and up ,which is the vast majority, even suggesting scribe moulding is a serious offense. Either scribe the cabinet to the wall or float the wall to the cabinet.
General consensus out here in the Pacific NW builders I deal with is that cabinets that are scribed to the wall look more custom and ‘built in’. Scribe moulding looks like an after thought.
That being said. Scribing a big cabinet to the wall on the gnats a#%, upwards of 30 minutes, scribe moulding, 2 minutes. You be the judge.. Looks or speed..
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I have always felt installation is always the key. You can take crappy cabinets and make them look like a million if you take in installing them and, to me, that means scribing or floating the wall, period!
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No tricks Joe. Scribe moulding seems to be the norm around here. Maybe it's a Calif. thing. I kinda felt like I was doing something out of the ordinary by trying to make my cabinets look built-in. I figure now that I did it right, I just needed someone who knows to tell me. Thanks for the positive renforcement.
*most of the cabinet suppliers offer scribe extensions as an option.. and we always get the option if it's available.. also they will extend the sides too, not just the stiles.. so an end cabinet can be scribed at the back .....i guess what everyone is saying is that there is no other way to hang a cabinet other than scribing it.and that is where it's nice if the cabinet installer gets to frame his own wall.... for some reason it comes out straighter and he does a lot less scribing and shimming.....i know where you're comming from wedge... that 's the SOP if you're dealing with the merchant builders...but around here.. the Owner would be embarrassed if they paid that kind of money and those things got pointed out to them at their first cocktail party...usually i see scribe molding in rental property or real low end tract houses where the low bidder didn't know or didn't care about scribing
*... or mobile homes.Case closed.
*OK, but what do these scribe mouldings look like? Speak slow, use small words. Is this a quarter round or something like that? I've honestly never seen one, and I would just like to know.
*Adrian, what I've seen is a flat strip, say 3/32" to 1/8" thick, about 3/4" wide. Sort of like screen molding. It's often pre-finished to match factory-built cabinet. Anyhow, when the cabinet and wall do not meet evenly along a vertical surface (i.e., where you and I would scribe the cabinets), the strip is simply tacked on the face of the cabinet, bending it to the contours of the wall. A cove molding could serve the same purpose, but would draw even more attention to the short cut.BTW, how's the E-Cabinetry business coming along? Were you responsible for the recent drop in the NASDAQ?Regards, Steve
*Adrian... you... are... correct. Small... dimension... moulding.Some go as far as using the cabinet laminate to cover, on three sides, a strip of wood - 1/4" x 1" - to glue or tack over the voids. If not laminate, then a stained or painted strip of the cabinet face or case material. Or, better yet, CAULK IT, with colored caulk to match the cabinets (or not).
*Steve and Ralph; thanks. Those scribe moulding things are depressing.As to the market stuff; nope, I'm not responsible, but I'm watching. I was about to do the IPO thing on the E-cabinetry division of my corporation, when the bottom fell out of the market. "What ho!" says I, the're on to me and my kind; the masses have realised there is very little value to that stuff beneath the hype and the hopes. Oh well. AND THEN IT WENT UP AGAIN. Ah ha, says I to myself. People can flood the market with shoddy overpriced product, and run overblown, inefficient companies with no real hope of ever being profitable, and even after being taught a big lesson (naked emperors etc), the investors will flock to them. I can do that standing on my head. So now I'm thinking, this is my time. Nooone ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the average investor. So the IPO is back on again. I'll keep you posted. Some one will call , with an offer YOU CAN'T REFUSE.
*To scribe or not to scribe, is that the question?This California cabinetmaker scribes - on every job from run-of-the-mill spec houses to top of the line premium grade work. My system is easy: I scribe and install finished end panels after installing the carcase - face frame as well as Euro style.Scribe moldings look cheap, because they are cheap. Scribing adds so little cost to a job - probably less than one percent. You (the client) get what you pay for. Why not scribe?
*Wedge: You done good. Scribing is the only way to install cabinetry and still feel good about the job.The last kitchen I put in had to be scribed to interior walls of granite stone( foundation work now inside the new addition) Basic tools: Belt Sander with a 36 Grit belt, compass, Saber saw, carbon paper, and a 3lb sledge.Rough in the cut with the saw, grind to the scribe line, place in position with the carbon paper sandwiched between the stone and the work, judicious whack, grind away the black marks, repeat as needed. This added a week, easy, to the job. On the other hand, that wood/stone splice looks like it grew there. Worth every penny, second, and judicious whack. Convincing the client that a sledgehammer is a legit cabinet installation tool is a whole different story. murph
*We always select studs on cabinet walls for straigtness then string line all walls in the house at about 36" kerfing and wedging if needed. The cabinet man always says " I wish all houses were this straight". My laminate man says he only scribes when the gap at the back is 1/8" or more and uses color- rite caulk to make up the difference. As long as we can furr those plumbing walls and stringline our studs scribing can be handled by a tube of caulk here in most cases. Im not against it though when it is needed......that flat pencil is handy......
*Thanks for the pat on the back Murph. I have wasted an awful lot of time doing stuff on this home that will never be noticed. It's nice to finally feel like my picky attitude is finally paying off. And it sure makes the finished product look like great for a pretty small investment of time. I'd sure like to see that kitchen! Have you got a photo you could post? Just the thought of all that meticulus work makes me cringe.
*I'll try to describe, why I prefer not, to scribe, but if you have a bribe, then I'll go forth and prescribe....no....I'd rather imbibe...Wish that tavern really had some booz...near the stream and da fridge...ajps...fitting my cabinets to straight walls...need I say more?
*Straight wall? Wassdat? Never been in a house that had a straight wall. Next thing you guys will be talking about are square corners. SHG
*A lot of the cabinets that I build are in homes that are framed by the same framing crew. One day we discussed how great it looks when cabs fit tight to the walls without trying to hide discrepencies with mouldings. Since then we kind of made an agreement that they would keep the walls as true as possible, especially in the kitchen area as it not only helps me when I install, but it also makes the framers look better (compared to their competitors). This has made for very little scribing.
*Straight wall???????? I gave it every effort, but between wet lumber, a south facing kitchen, and a "santa fe" type wall texture it doens't fare too well for the cabinet hanger. But it does make me wish I had saved my best framing lumber for the kitchen walls.
*do not forget the straight lumber for the bathroma as well. Cabinets and mirrors need to mount in there somewhere. Had a wall of an exsisting place we were supposed to put in a cabinet and glue a mirror up. Wall had a good 1/4 inch bulge. And this was a builders own house.
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Murph,
Just dress up your 2lb.
I have also found that my 4 1/2" angle grinder is indispensable I use it for all of my copes and most of the scribing.
"It just grew there"
SS
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I guess I should quit losing sleep over the 18" in six feet I was out on my bathroom wall. I keep telling myself that I'm the only one who will ever see it. I wonder if a 3lb. sledge would help.......
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I make and install my cabinets. Always assume they are going to be installed in your own house.
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Sorry Wedge, I just got this computer in February, don't own a scanner (yet). murph
*Skip: Just curious, What kind of blade do you spin in that side grinder when scribing? One of those chainsaw dohickies? If so, how aggressive is it? murph
*I think this whole discussion relates to discussions about hanging doors etc. Suspect there is a contigent here of which i'm part that likes to follow themselves.Simply put, since homes cannot be perfect; isn't the art of building making things all fit together. In reference to cabinets that means building walls that are plumb, square, straight, adequately blocked, etc. to receive the cabinets. Certainly that does not exclude shlocky scribe moldings from jobs that pay bills but don't have budgets that pay for our best work. There are an infinfite number of situations in building, some mean square cabinets hung level against plumb walls and others mean compromise. This is a bit obtuse so its tempting to just delete it, but here it is worth what you paid for it.joe d
*You make a very good point there Joe. I have submitted bids to contractors building spec homes and on more than one occasion have been asked to cut back on the details to keep cost as low as possible.On one hand, I try to avoid these type of situations, as in the long run I feel it hurts my quality and reputation. On the other hand though, it still pays the bills. Unfortunately, I'm more vulnerable to giving in when I'm not covered up with work.
*Kitchens and baths (and any other areas that show built-ins or tiling, etc) should get the best framing lumber you have. Unfortunately, the squarest corners can, and usually will, be thrown off by the rock and mudding process, thus the beauty of skim/veneer coat.Scribing? Should always be done. It does take longer than tacking up a chunk of trim, but not substantially longer. Start doing it now, the money will follow.
*I'm 60 & my old partner is 72.. Scribing cabinets to a wall? Is this something new? I never heard of such a thing! Hell yes I use scribe strips & face frame styles a little wild so they can be scribed to the wall. What slayes me is when a carpenter hasn't a clue what they are for.. L. Siders
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I just finished setting my kitchen and bath cabinets, and my cabinetmaker left enough extra on the stiles for me to scribe them to the walls. This cabinetmaker is one of a handful of people I would call a true craftsman. In his opinion it was the only correct way to get a proper fit. After spending a full day scribing and planing, I asked several friends in the trades, and the routine awnswer was pretty much to just tack up scribe moulding and not worry so much. I got to thinking that you all are pretty much as good as they come, so what do you say? The bottom line is I'm happy with the results, but did I do right or just make a lot of work?
*Yes
*Scribing cabinets, counter top back splashes, paneling, etc. is a good practice. I've seen many kitchens where the stock cabinets were installed without consideration to the wall plane and they looked, well, hacked. The use of molding to hide wall discrepancies is not, in my opinion a good habit to develop.Stick to the time honored practice of scribing - it shows you care.
*Lemme put it this way... In the sub $1M houses I work in as a finish carpenter, scribe moulding is accepted, even expected. In the $1M and up ,which is the vast majority, even suggesting scribe moulding is a serious offense. Either scribe the cabinet to the wall or float the wall to the cabinet.General consensus out here in the Pacific NW builders I deal with is that cabinets that are scribed to the wall look more custom and 'built in'. Scribe moulding looks like an after thought.That being said. Scribing a big cabinet to the wall on the gnats a#%, upwards of 30 minutes, scribe moulding, 2 minutes. You be the judge.. Looks or speed..
*What exactly do you guys mean by 'scribe moulding', if you don't mind?We build 'em, and every cabinet gets scribed to the wall, period, big money job or not.
*I agree with you on this one Adrian. The price I qoute a customer for building cabinets includes installation where cabs are scribed to the walls.I believe the abover posts refer to 'scribe moulding' as being a moulding strip that is added after installation to cover up a poor fit to the wall.
*I just finished a bathroom where the builder had originally "scribed the cabinet and counter top to the wall" by cutting out the drywall and stuffing everything to the studs... A fine high quality job if I do say so.
*Wedge,
View Image © 1999-2000"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates
*Even in non custom cabinets it should be customary to scribe to the wall. That's what fills are for. Nobody who reads this site even once, would consider doing anything else. Joe's right. Is there a trick somewhere here?
*I thought I read a post about scribing with a chain saw.....or something. Maybe the guy is from the same crowd that uses scribe moulding.A sharp plane, a belt sander, and a good set of scribes(imagine that what a name for them) and a sharp pencil and even the most basic set of cabinets can look great.AE
*cutting the drywall away and stuffing to the studs is not scribing or impressive in my opinion especially if "custom" cabinets. If scribing does not do it and the drywall has to go then what was custom ? the truck they were delivered in ?