….to any of you?
I do quite a lot of bathroom remodels. Usual ones are full rip out and all new gear, walls, tiles on the floor etc.
Did one last week. built a new cradle for the bath, made sure it was level all around, glued the bath down via its wee feet. All was cool. A week later the owner phoned the boss and said there was a puddle of water up front of the plughole that wouldnt go away. The manufacturers were called in to go and see as a fault was suspected at their end.
THEN, the mongrels went round, saw the bath, and told the customer that I hadnt installed it properly and it was out of level. Not their fault. The customer went into a tizz and phoned the boss, going berko.
He went round, had a look and saw that everything was fine, level, etc. So he called the manufacturers and tore strips off them. End result, they admitted fault and will spring for a new bath.
What galls me is they were quite happy to call me a fool in order to shift responsibilty, but worse, did so to the customer. GGGRRRRRRRR
Does this happen to any of you?
Wood Hoon
Replies
This is a smaller version of the new business model espoused by Enron, Global Crossing, Worldcom, et al. Profit above all else. By lying, cheating, shifting blame, or obscuring losses.
Fly the corporate ship higher and faster than sustainable. Then watch the golden parachutes bloom just before the organization blows up. Rob a bank of $5000 and you get 5 to 10 hard time in a pen full of rough customers. Steal $5,000,000 in white collar crime and you get 1 to 3 in a federal country club. Most will do no time at all. The fines are a fraction of the money stolen. Would you do a year in jail for 20 million dollars? 100 million?
These are the same conservatives who were preaching that we could trust business. No need for regulation. They said honesty is a cornerstone of business and moralized to the poor while preaching about character and hard work.
Fortunately I had withdrawn my little stash from the stockmarket before it turned down. As I see it there are only two things that will get me back into the stock market.
1) Open standards that guarantee that companies clearly and simply report the whole truth, good and bad, and disseminate this information to all regardless of the size or worth of the investor. That executive salaries and perks be reported and controlled by a truly independent and antagonistic board. That the SEC be fully funded, doubling their funding would be a start, at the expense of the financial community.
2) Stock brokers, analysts and CFOs have to shop at Sears and take public transportation due to people pulling their money out of the market.
Which ever comes first. Until then I will invest in tools and skills.
tools and skills..........
The way I look at it, If I buy all my tools as an individual, not a business. Then I will always own them. More skills is good. I can use them later if i have to. ( I have often had occasion to be thankful for this )
I know that if pressed, or if their bluff is called then the 'other party' will back off and admit fault. It just burns my chops that it so often it is considered appropriate to also run down someone else in the process. How come?
Have certain morals and ethics really deteriorated so far that it has to be expected that some lying and ducking will arrise first?
I suppose on the plus side, those with integrity and an honest service are REALLY going to stand out.
Wood Hoon
Capitalism has no conscience, a little reality that's often disremembered.
"Does this ever happen to you ...."
Try being a home inspector calling out some problem in a new home! Boy, do the contratcors love us then! (Of course, they never turn down the repair work we call out in existing homes!)
(BTW, I don't nit-pick - I'm looking at what works and what doesn't. Minor technicalities get mentioned, but I tell my clients not to get worked up over the technical stuff if it doesn't have any real effect. How do I know if it has any real effect? Becuase I've usually seen the same thing many times in older houses so I know what works and what doesn't.)
I don't think this is the same issue as the corporate scandels currently raging. Ducking responsibility and trying to pin the blame elsewhere is as old as human nature, I suspect.
Of course, the corporate scandels should be calling our attention to the potential risks of the current rage on the right for privatization of so many government functions. If they would stop to think about that for a moment, maybe they'll also give a moment's thought to whether the cutbacks in government spending have contributed to the various major failings of government agencies the last few years (the obvious ones being "intelligence" and the SEC.)
The politicians are getting the shorts knotted up over the Pledge issue; have any of them said: "Hmmm, maybe we were wrong in gutting the Federeal Government wholesale. Maybe we have some responsibility for some the failings of govenment recently."
And, of course, maybe pigs will learn to fly!
I think it happens to everybody - I know I get my share of it.
I think anytime there's a problem the finger pointing starts. Then you get into the he said/she said type stuff, and "I told you that's not what I wanted", etc.
Don't know that there's any real solution, but it sure is a pain.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
AJ my brother its called a classic case of pass the buck. I get a dose of it everyday at work. Its alaways someone elses or another dept or a suppliers fault. People just dont take responsiblilty anymore.
Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Probably an impossible scheduling effort, but I think getting everybody on site at the same time would cut way back on the obviously implausible blame shifting. For me, at least, it's much easier to abuse someone behind his back than to his face.
Buckminster Fuller used to say (I'm paraphrasing) You can't change human nature, so change the environment instead, to get the behavior you want.
About a year ago (or more?) there was a guy (RK) here spamming the board selling tapes and books on how to do just this. Pass the buck or convince the homeowner that even though the roof was new and it leaked it was not his fault.
He claimed to be a big time roofing contractor and this was the method he had perfected to cover for his shoddy work. Shift the blame.
As to the current financial scandals, it looks like virually ALL of it occured under the Glorious and Honest Leader Bill Clinton's administration. ALL. Although Martha Stewart is current events, it is not of the same scale by far. And I should probably add that Martha was a big fund raiser for AlGore and Hillary. Blame the VastRightWingConspiracy if you will, but the facts show otherwise. Joe H
The general corporate behavior was well documented before the 1800s. I'm sure with enough imagination and time machine you could blame these too on Clinton. Kind of ironic this would be a discussion on shifting blame. Like you are doing.
Clinton didn't gut the regulators. Reagan did. Does the name Micheal Milken sound familiar. It should because an estimated 4 billion dollars, no one really knows as blame was shifted for many of the bailouts, of taxpayers money went to bail out the savings and loans. Fortunes were made. Assets shifted from public and small investors to well heeled individuals. Liabilities shifted from the individual to the public. Three card monty with a billion dollar nut.
With another Bush in office the signal was given to the financial community that anything goes. Blind faith in the self correcting nature and inherent virtue of big business precluded regulation. The regulators would just get in the way of market corrections. Besides W was viewed as unlikely to push for market accountability as his checkered past would become part of the pattern. A short but well research overview of the legacy.
http://www.motherjones.com/news_wire/bushboys.html
Keep chanting the mantra "Clinton did it. Clinton is to blame" if it makes you feel better. Just don't expect me to buy it.
JoeH,
4Lorn1 put it pretty well, but apparently you've foprgotten about Ivan Boesky and all of the Wall Street pirates who ended up in jail based on their actions during the Reagan adminsitration.
Of course, it would be a shame to let the facts spoil a good anti-Clinton rant, so just keep those blinedrs on!
BTW, everyone with a real interest in affecting governemnt; e.g., having some influence, puts their lobbying money with the politician they think will win. They don't care if they are Republican, Democratic, or the Natural Truth and Justice League. They want access to elected officials. They give money where they think it will get them that access. Period.
I think that you can take solice in the fact that the customer now knows that the manufacturer rep is not a very responsible person and will probably ask you not to install their products in the future. You might even be able to leverage this incident with other future customers by not recommending their products and using this customer as a reference. The old addage prevails "If someone gives your lemons, make lemonade".
And then there are the times when nothing seems to go right and you just have to buck up and do the best you can to get through it. Don't let it get you down.
I make sure that I am there, on site when factory reps arrive. Better yet, I try to be the guy who brings them out on site.
That makes them morer likely to play kosher, or at least careful, when they try to point the finger. And I'm right there with the level!
What happens to me more often is that call to software techreps who start off by acting like it's all my fault ...
Like Pif said...be the guy with the level! Stuff like that don't happen to me much because I don't let it! I'm the first to explain when I'm wrong...and offer a sloution...but god forbid someone try to blame me for something that ain't my fault!
I take that #### seriously! That's like trying to steal food off my table.......and don't ever try and call me no liar!
So the best defense is to be there with all the answers when the rep shows up. Show the customers first what ya did was right...then show them again when the rep questions it. Chances are....the rep questioned it because no one was there to refute it. Can't blame the customer...they probably don't understand the situation. Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
I also go at it with the attitude of finding a solution that everybody can work together and agree on. Everyone comes up smelling like roses that way.
Focus on finding blame and it's more like a playground fight.
I open the Good Book and read to them from the book of Solutions - one of Solomons less well known publications.
Excellence is its own reward!
piffin and Jeff are right on the mark. Another tip for any remodeler is to never put down the work that you find in a home. Sometime the homeowner will say another contractor did this or that, but just as often it was "hubby, dad, or a brother in law. I am more incline to say, "this is a little off or...., I can make some improvement here or there if you would like me too". Now if it is so bad I have been called to salvage a bad job, nearly the same rule applies. I look for all the mistake because they go into the bid for repair. I still don't bad mouth the other guy, the home owner already knows they screwed up, I just make sure they see all the mistake. I don't want someone else's bad work blame on me when I am gone. The last guy there always seeems to get the credit or blame for all the work, good or bad.
Dave
Are you going to remove and install the new one?
At whos' expense?Or do you work Saturday installing it for free."because you love your work".
Some body must pay and a new tub will not cover all the expenses.
I had a problem with a stucco company. Their president spent 3 hours telling me that the cracks in their work were acceptable and were within specifications and they could not be blamed. I told him to kiss something and go to Helen Waite, my accoutant,to get the rest of his money.
Charlie
Charlie, I will probably be the one ripping the piece of crap out, WITHOUT damaging all the new tiles etc, then install the new one. The makers also want the thing out in one bit 'if possible' so they can see what went wrong.
There is no way I will do this on a Saturday, I do way too many hours during the week. Also as to the idea of doing it for free...........HAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA.
They screwed up with a crappy product and in the process called me a fool, they will most certainly be paying for it. I am also going to do what i have to to get it out and the new one in. I am contemplating running a power saw down the length of it. If the easiest way for me is to damage tile, then so be it. They will wear the cost of that too.
I got to hear about the 'problem' after the reps had been round and bad mouthed my work. I told the boss it was fortunate I wasnt there or I would have shredded the guy. I was then told it was a woman. I would bet any money she wouldnt be so quick to point the finger if i was in the room.
I always think that running down others work just makes ME look bad. I reckon better to point out some errors in a diplomatic way, explain how to fix it, and get on with it. What goes around comes around. The dirtbag rep wont have done her reputation much good. Sadly they probably dont care. saving a few dollars seems more important than customer satisfaction.
Wood Hoon